2024 Copa América

[Evilo]

Yeah, would love for him/her to weigh in.

Because I personally don't think there was any racist intent in them signing that song. I don't think they willfully thought, let's make fun of African players on the French National Team.

It's just a cultural thing, not up for me to say whether that's right or wrong, but personally, as a person of color. I'm not offended at all (just speak for myself here).

Just like I don't presume all people from Argentina are racist, I don't presume this song was done with malicious intent either.


I think Enzo and his other Argentina teammates probably had an awakening and realize that are things, that may be acceptable and harmless in your own culture, that affect other people sensibilities.

But once again, given we're talking about Argentina (and I say this with as much respect as I can), is this shocking?

No lol

They might not have realized two years ago but got heat for it.
Yet they do it again. Without France being even linked to their victory.

 

[417]

They might not have realized two years ago but got heat for it.
Yet they do it again. Without France being even linked to their victory.

Because they don't care...but if the rest of the world actually was bothered by it, then they wouldn't be playing in any major international football competitions, just like Russia isn't.

But they don't care and the rest of the world, beyond just wagging their finger, doesn't either lol.

Not saying it's right, just telling it how it is, not pontificating...just annoyed by this fake outrage.

 

[Evilo]

Good thing is that after he's fired from Chelsea, he can join Harit and Greenwood at Marseille.

Because they don't care...but if the rest of the world actually was bothered by it, then they wouldn't be playing in any major international football competitions, just like Russia isn't.

But they don't care and the rest of the world, beyond just wagging their finger, doesn't either lol.

Not saying it's right, just telling it how it is, not pontificating...just annoyed by this fake outrage.

They don't care but they can't feign ignorance.

 

[bluesfan94]

But HE made the comment that this was discussed here 2 years ago!?!?! lol

How the hell was I supposed to know that you guys discussed 2 years ago, an event that happened 24hrs ago!?!?!

It doesn't even make sense lol

I do find it fascinating though that 2 years ago, you and others were in this thread, discussing that 2 years later, in July 2024, Enzo Fernandez and the Argentina Team would release a song poking fun of French players and their African descent after winning the Copa America.

Twilight zone up in here, I should visit more often.

Go Blues! lol

See, now you're talking in circles. If you're only discussing this exact occurrence, then you were wholly off topic bringing up Argentinian race relations. But you claimed to be providing context, which implies something broader than an exact event - namely you claimed to be providing key information regarding Argentinian race relations, which you certainly can understand being capable of being discussed two years ago, because, as you so capably explained, it's been going on for decades.

In other words, the context you've so helpfully provided was already discussed, you just weren't around to see it, which is likely why you didn't understand why it wasn't being discussed. It's the same way we don't need to describe the sport, because those who post here already understand that context.

Once again, to try to dumb it down for you, we did not discuss the exact event two years ago - I'm not sure how you even understood that from my post, unless you're intentionally misreading it; rather, we have already, here in this subforum, discussed issues of racism. Does that make sense or do I need to dumb it down even more? I'm happy to.

By the way, no one expects you to understand what happened here a couple years ago - that's why someone tried to tell you what happened then! But at the same time, if you show up and don't know what's happened in the past, claiming that someone is passing through when they've been here to understand and try to pass along the "institutional" knowledge (in quotes, because I think you'd be hard pressed to describe HFSoccer as an "institution"), when you yourself don't understand such knowledge is rather ironic. It's ironic because you'd expect the person criticizing someone for passing through to be the mainstay and the person so criticized to be the poster who hasn't been seen here before, but you subverted that expectation by doing the exact opposite. See how easy irony is to explain when you understand it?

I was responding to a SPECIFIC poster, who made a SPECIFIC post.

If my "pontificating" didn't apply to you, then why do you feel like I was talking about you??

I didn't think you were talking about me, specifically, nor did I ever imply otherwise.

Additionally, no one actually said you shouldn't be upset, what I said was that if THAT gets you upset and not more actual life impacting events like say, I don't know...ethnic cleansing, then you're just virtue signalling. You actually don't care about racism, you care about the illusion of caring about it.

Right, but it would be out of place to just constantly discuss Argentinian race relations in a subforum dedicated to soccer unless and until it became relevant to that topic. wouldn't you agree?

Not "people"...again.

I responded to a SPECIFIC poster who made a SPECIFIC post.

Got it. So to be clear, if anyone else other than said poster had said it, you wouldn't have responded the same way? Or is the issue the contents of the post, regardless of who posted it, which therefore means it isn't limited to a specific poster, and thus the term "people" applies? If you're going to try to play the semantic game, at least be good at it.

I couldn't give a damn about this chant, but conversely, since you asked is every individual in a country inherently guilty of their country's worst actions, is Enzo Fernandez and his teammates racist because they sang a song where they pointed out that some players on the French National team have parents who are born in African countries?

Got it, you don't care about this chant, so you decided to spend your afternoon posting on a subforum you don't post on about it because of how much you don't care. I notice you didn't answer my question, by the way. You implied that no one should be surprised by Enzo leading a racist chant because he's Argentinian. Again I ask, is your stance that you can impute an individual's beliefs simply because of that person's nationality? As for your question, yes, I think if someone chants racist/xenophobic words and is willing to record and share said chant, that person (and those participating in the chant) likely hold racist beliefs, even if they are unaware of the import of those actions. The kicker is that they can't claim ignorance this time, because it wasn't the first time this happened.

Hmmm...there's that irony again lol

Not really ironic at all. One is imputing an individual's actions to that person and the other is imputing the actions of a nation-state to an individual of that nationality. There's no subversion of expectations in that stance. But I guess given that you pretty clearly stated that you can't explain irony, I shouldn't be surprised that you misapply the word.

 

[417]

Good thing is that after he's fired from Chelsea, he can join Harit and Greenwood at Marseille.


They don't care but they can't feign ignorance.

They did it 2 years ago lol they’ll do it again.

Most people, most of the people admonishing them, don't care either.

Just stating some truth.

Its as disingenuous as the French Footbalm Federation saying its unacceptable. Completely self-serving.

 

[Peen]

Never been an enzo guy anyways

 

[robertmac43]

Because I personally don't think there was any racist intent in them signing that song. I don't think they willfully thought, let's make fun of African players on the French National Team.

It's just a cultural thing, not up for me to say whether that's right or wrong, but personally, as a person of color. I'm not offended at all (just speak for myself here).

Just like I don't presume all people from Argentina are racist, I don't presume this song was done with malicious intent either.

I'd argue that intent doesn't necessarily matter here. It's the impact we need to consider and as it's been mentioned, Enzo's Chelsea teammates have been impacted by his comments and are speaking out against them.

 

[417]

See, now you're talking in circles. If you're only discussing this exact occurrence, then you were wholly off topic bringing up Argentinian race relations. But you claimed to be providing context, which implies something broader than an exact event - namely you claimed to be providing key information regarding Argentinian race relations, which you certainly can understand being capable of being discussed two years ago, because, as you so capably explained, it's been going on for decades.

I don't understand how anyone can separate one from the other.

That's completely madness lol.

In other words, the context you've so helpfully provided was already discussed, you just weren't around to see it, which is likely why you didn't understand why it wasn't being discussed. It's the same way we don't need to describe the sport, because those who post here already understand that context.

But it WAS discussed, for the FOURTH TIME, I was RESPONDING to a poster who was talking about Enzo ignoring black fans, which was on the margins, I can only presume, of people discussing the chant/video he posted.

Smdh lol

Once again, to try to dumb it down for you, we did not discuss the exact event two years ago - I'm not sure how you even understood that from my post, unless you're intentionally misreading it; rather, we have already, here in this subforum, discussed issues of racism. Does that make sense or do I need to dumb it down even more? I'm happy to.

I still don't understand why because you talked about it 2 years ago, it means I can't discuss it 2 years later when someone brings it up.

That makes no sense lol.

By the way, no one expects you to understand what happened here a couple years ago - that's why someone tried to tell you what happened then! But at the same time, if you show up and don't know what's happened in the past, claiming that someone is passing through when they've been here to understand and try to pass along the "institutional" knowledge (in quotes, because I think you'd be hard pressed to describe HFSoccer as an "institution"), when you yourself don't understand such knowledge is rather ironic. It's ironic because you'd expect the person criticizing someone for passing through to be the mainstay and the person so criticized to be the poster who hasn't been seen here before, but you subverted that expectation by doing the exact opposite. See how easy irony is to explain when you understand it?

I think you took “passing through” too literally here lol my gosh.

Right, but it would be out of place to just constantly discuss Argentinian race relations in a subforum dedicated to soccer unless and until it became relevant to that topic. wouldn't you agree?

Agreed and it was brought up and once more, I responded to it adding the context of the jersey exchange from Enzo and NOT him openly ignoring black fans.

Got it. So to be clear, if anyone else other than said poster had said it, you wouldn't have responded the same way? Or is the issue the contents of the post, regardless of who posted it, which therefore means it isn't limited to a specific poster, and thus the term "people" applies? If you're going to try to play the semantic game, at least be good at it.

You're overthinking it

This is a message board, people post things and others are allowed to respond to it.

That's basically it.

Got it, you don't care about this chant, so you decided to spend your afternoon posting on a subforum you don't post on about it because of how much you don't care. I notice you didn't answer my question, by the way. You implied that no one should be surprised by Enzo leading a racist chant because he's Argentinian. Again I ask, is your stance that you can impute an individual's beliefs simply because of that person's nationality? As for your question, yes, I think if someone chants racist/xenophobic words and is willing to record and share said chant, that person (and those participating in the chant) likely hold racist beliefs, even if they are unaware of the import of those actions. The kicker is that they can't claim ignorance this time, because it wasn't the first time this happened.

But I don't believe its a racist chant so, no lol.

But yes i‘m not surprised that an Argentinian player or players wouldn't see how this might be perceived.

100%

Ignorant? Yes

Racist? I think actions is the threshold that determines that, not chants lol.

Not really ironic at all. One is imputing an individual's actions to that person and the other is imputing the actions of a nation-state to an individual of that nationality. There's no subversion of expectations in that stance. But I guess given that you pretty clearly stated that you can't explain irony, I shouldn't be surprised that you misapply the word.

I couldn't careless about your characterization of me lol I don't know you from a hole in a wall.

I was talking about YOUR post being ironic and you didn't even catch that lol

 

[John Pedro]

Nothing new from him.

Quite laughable when you consider :
1/ he's himself coming from a migrating family
2/ Argentina has welcomed with open arms all those German SS... I guess as long as you're white..

it's sickening but not shocking, actually

Every matche against a Argentina's side there's at least one reported case of racism be it a chant or monkey gestures.

but if you burn their coin, they get mad bc you mocking their economy

 

[417]

I'd argue that intent doesn't necessarily matter here. It's the impact we need to consider and as it's been mentioned, Enzo's Chelsea teammates have been impacted by his comments and are speaking out against them.

I'd argue their adoptive countries history with African nations is the real impact compared to a chant but that's a whole other debate.

I feel like that saying about focusing on the tree and ignoring the forest applies here lol

 

[417]

@bluesfan94 Enzo put out a statement so all is good now. There's nothing a good sincere apology can’t fix.

Now we can all go back to praising how amazing the Albiceleste are!

 

[PanniniClaus]

Never been an enzo guy anyways

He can leave Chelsea with immediate effect, and I won't miss him for a nano second.

 

[Brief Candle]

As someone who has both very close african american friends (hell, my girlfriend is african american), as well as trans friends, I in on way, shape or form support that nonsense.

With that said, I've seen some extremely shitty takes referencing the country as a whole. Throwing an entire nation under the bus over the actions of one person is in itself racist, and what I find even more amusing is the fact that it's call coming from Americans and Canadians: Two to the most racist countries on this planet. I suppose we can just overlook all the native women that go missing in Canada every year because you guys say sorry all the time, or perhaps cops murdering and disproportionately locking up people of color in the states really just is a misunderstanding because freedom and apple pie.

Spare me the sermons. Argentina isn't perfect, but maybe look to your own borders before spewing all this nonsense.

1) He was trying to hand a shirt to a River Plate fan, he's a River Plate boy.

EXACTLY this. I don't condone what he sang, but it just goes to show how little these people here know about football in Argentina. ANYONE from south America would have seen him trying to give his jersey to the kid wearing the River shirt.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

As someone who has both very close african american friends (hell, my girlfriend is african american), as well as trans friends, I in on way, shape or form support that nonsense.

With that said, I've seen some extremely shitty takes referencing the country as a whole. Throwing an entire nation under the bus over the actions of one person is in itself racist, and what I find even more amusing is the fact that it's call coming from Americans and Canadians: Two to the most racist countries on this planet. I suppose we can just overlook all the native women that go missing in Canada every year because you guys say sorry all the time, or perhaps cops murdering and disproportionately locking up people of color in the states really just is a misunderstanding because freedom and apple pie.

Spare me the sermons. Argentina isn't perfect, but maybe look to your own borders before spewing all this nonsense.




EXACTLY this. I don't condone what he sang, but it just goes to show how little these people here know about football in Argentina. ANYONE from south America would have seen him trying to give his jersey to the kid wearing the River shirt.

Literally within the same sentence lol

 

[Brief Candle]

Literally within the same sentence lol

What's wrong, do you not enjoy me judging you based on the actions of a few? Doesn't feel so good, does it?

 

[PeteWorrell]

Hard to take anyone seriously that considers the USA and Canada as two of the most racists countries on the planet.

 

[robertmac43]

With that said, I've seen some extremely shitty takes referencing the country as a whole. Throwing an entire nation under the bus over the actions of one person is in itself racist, and what I find even more amusing is the fact that it's call coming from Americans and Canadians: Two to the most racist countries on this planet. I suppose we can just overlook all the native women that go missing in Canada every year because you guys say sorry all the time, or perhaps cops murdering and disproportionately locking up people of color in the states really just is a misunderstanding because freedom and apple pie.

Every nation has it's dark history. Canada is no better on that front and we continue to reconcile and work towards a better future. Not saying we are close to doing that or that it excuses any of the racism towards indigenous populations in the past or present day.

One thing we don't have though is a widely accepted chant that is extremely racist. It doesn't exist here and wouldn't fly with the players, fans, or supporters groups for the National Teams.

The entire Argentinian team singing that song together is a terrible look. It doesn't make the entire country racist, but it's clear the country is more accepting to the language used in the chant then a country like Canada. That simply wouldn't fly here.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

As someone who has both very close african american friends (hell, my girlfriend is african american), as well as trans friends, I in on way, shape or form support that nonsense.

With that said, I've seen some extremely shitty takes referencing the country as a whole. Throwing an entire nation under the bus over the actions of one person is in itself racist, and what I find even more amusing is the fact that it's call coming from Americans and Canadians: Two to the most racist countries on this planet. I suppose we can just overlook all the native women that go missing in Canada every year because you guys say sorry all the time, or perhaps cops murdering and disproportionately locking up people of color in the states really just is a misunderstanding because freedom and apple pie.

Spare me the sermons. Argentina isn't perfect, but maybe look to your own borders before spewing all this nonsense.

1. Canada also sucks
2. If videos came out of a winning Canadian hockey team singing vile songs about Indigenous women, I would be profoundly unsurprised
3. Were that to happen, I would absolutely draw the connection between it and the bigger picture history of Canadian colonialism producing some pretty rancid hateful people

How's that for looking to my own borders

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

This Argentina-France beef is blowing up. Seems to have become a diplomatic crisis.

 

[al secord]

As a Scotsman, MacAllister really needs to speak up and lower the temperature.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Hard to take anyone seriously that considers the USA and Canada as two of the most racists countries on the planet.

lol for real. So disconnected from reality.

Enzo Fernandez posts video of Argentina players singing racist France chant

Chelsea star Enzo Fernandez filmed Argentina's players singing a racist chant about France and Kylian Mbappe after their Copa America win

metro.co.uk

Least racist Argentine

 

[bluesfan94]

This Argentina-France beef is blowing up. Seems to have become a diplomatic crisis.

It does feel a little hypocritical from the French Federation given their handwaving of their players’ Asian discrimination.

And to be clear, I’m in no way excusing or minimizing the Argentine actions, just discussing the difference in French response.

 

[keonsbitterness]

It's just a cultural thing

Some cultural things need to be called out so that they can be eliminated. Honour killings were rampant in the Indian subcontinent until the British put an end to them. In turn, political pressure and the occasional war or two ended colonialism.

 

[S E P H]

I haven't gotten to the finals yet, but out of watching both the Euros and Copa, Junior is clearly the best player in any tournament. He's a freak (meant in a good way).

 

[S E P H]

Nothing new from him.

Quite laughable when you consider :
1/ he's himself coming from a migrating family
2/ Argentina has welcomed with open arms all those German SS... I guess as long as you're white..

I am not defending Enzo in any way, but this is some big arse gaslighting here by that Twitter poster. He saw the kid he wanted to give the shirt to before all the brothas came into the screen. There is nothing indicating discrimination in that video, he already made his mind up. With that said, he might 100% be racist, but this clip has ZEROOOOOOOO proof of that.