Prospect Info: [2024 - 5th] Ivan Motherbleeping Demidov (RW), SKA St. Petersburg (MHL)

[Essenege]

Guy Lafleur was not a generational player.
Look around everywhere and nobody outside Montréal are saying that he was one.

Lafleur was done at 29.. Lafleur was the best player in the world in the mid 70s for about 5 years.

By the time he was 29 he had a 104 even strength points season which was the best in history. Only Gretzky beat that (not even Mario which is crazy!!)

In his prime years, PP minutes were basically at their lowest, 30-50% less then in the 80’s/early 90’s. Lafleur’s prime is underrated because of that.

In 1979, before Gretzky, if we compare prime years which is all that matters to me, he was the best offensive player to ever play the game, and second best player ever after Orr, IMO. I don’t know how that isn’t generational.

Edit: for reference, in his best season, Mcdavid had 75 ES points to 71 PP points, and that includes 3v3 hockey…and we all know how dominant he his 5v5…

 

[salbutera]

By the time he was 29 he had a 104 even strength points season which was the best in history. Only Gretzky beat that (not even Mario which is crazy!!)

In his prime years, PP minutes were basically at their lowest, 30-50% less then in the 80’s/early 90’s. Lafleur’s prime is underrated because of that.

In 1979, before Gretzky, if we compare prime years which is all that matters to me, he was the best offensive player to ever play the game, and second best player ever after Orr, IMO. I don’t know how that isn’t generational.

Edit: for reference, in his best season, Mcdavid had 75 ES points to 71 PP points, and that includes 3v3 hockey…and we all know how dominant he his 5v5…

One thing Don Cherry always maintained has stood out to me, to paraphrase:

“In my over 50-yrs in hockey I never saw a star player take as much abuse as Guy. All the greats had protection, not Guy, he had to fend for himself, especially in the vicious 70s, and still dominated”

 

[overlords]

20 minutes of Demidov praise, enjoy

 

[Redux91]

20 minutes of Demidov praise, enjoy

Have been watching it at the office lol
The phone keeps ringing too

 

[Team_Spirit]

20 minutes of Demidov praise, enjoy

Damn

 

[crosbyshow]

By the time he was 29 he had a 104 even strength points season which was the best in history. Only Gretzky beat that (not even Mario which is crazy!!)

In his prime years, PP minutes were basically at their lowest, 30-50% less then in the 80’s/early 90’s. Lafleur’s prime is underrated because of that.

In 1979, before Gretzky, if we compare prime years which is all that matters to me, he was the best offensive player to ever play the game, and second best player ever after Orr, IMO. I don’t know how that isn’t generational.

Edit: for reference, in his best season, Mcdavid had 75 ES points to 71 PP points, and that includes 3v3 hockey…and we all know how dominant he his 5v5…

In his prime years he played 5 vs 5 with Lemaire and Shutt.

In his prime years healthy Lemieux played 5 vs 5 with Dan Quinn and Randy Cunneyworth or Rob Brown and Bob Errey

At 22 years old.in 1988..Lemieux did 168 points and the second best scorer with the Pens was Quinn with 79 points.

The year after Lemieux did 199 points in 76 games and the first power play unit was Lemieux Brown, Errey, Coffey and Taglianetti.....

Not exactly the Habs rester of the 70s..right....??

Lemieux was way better than Lafleur..way better.... come on.

Lemieux retired at 31...came back in 2000 in the dead puck era with Hasek Brodeur, Roy, Joseph, Belfour etc... in net and the trap, defensive systems etc ..... he was 35 years old when he came back and...scored....35......goals.....in 43 games......and 76 points.

Lafleur was a hell of a player but Lemieux was a martian...a generational player and I have seen them both at their prime...


Can you imagine that after 4 years retirement...at 35 years old in the dead puck era.....Lemieux scored at a better ratio than Lafleur at his prime..

Lemieux was just unreal

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

In his prime years he played 5 vs 5 with Lemaire and Shutt.

In his prime years healthy Lemieux played 5 vs 5 with Dan Quinn and Randy Cunneyworth or Rob Brown and Bob Errey

At 22 years old.in 1988..Lemieux did 168 points and the second best scorer with the Pens was Quinn with 79 points.

The year after Lemieux did 199 points in 76 games and the first power play unit was Lemieux Brown, Errey, Coffey and Taglianetti.....

Not exactly the Habs rester of the 70s..right....??

Lemieux was way better than Lafleur..way better.... come on.

Lemieux retired at 31...came back in 2000 in the dead puck era with Hasek Brodeur, Roy, Joseph, Belfour etc... in net and the trap, defensive systems etc ..... he was 35 years old when he came back and...scored....35......goals.....in 43 games......and 76 points.

Lafleur was a hell of a player but Lemieux was a martian...a generational player and I have seen them both at their prime...


Can you imagine that after 4 years retirement...at 35 years old in the dead puck era.....Lemieux scored at a better ratio than Lafleur at his prime..

Lemieux was just unreal

That’s good context but I don’t think he’s saying Lafleur’s better than Lemieux.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

In his prime years he played 5 vs 5 with Lemaire and Shutt.

In his prime years healthy Lemieux played 5 vs 5 with Dan Quinn and Randy Cunneyworth or Rob Brown and Bob Errey

At 22 years old.in 1988..Lemieux did 168 points and the second best scorer with the Pens was Quinn with 79 points.

The year after Lemieux did 199 points in 76 games and the first power play unit was Lemieux Brown, Errey, Coffey and Taglianetti.....

Not exactly the Habs rester of the 70s..right....??

Lemieux was way better than Lafleur..way better.... come on.

Lemieux retired at 31...came back in 2000 in the dead puck era with Hasek Brodeur, Roy, Joseph, Belfour etc... in net and the trap, defensive systems etc ..... he was 35 years old when he came back and...scored....35......goals.....in 43 games......and 76 points.

Lafleur was a hell of a player but Lemieux was a martian...a generational player and I have seen them both at their prime...


Can you imagine that after 4 years retirement...at 35 years old in the dead puck era.....Lemieux scored at a better ratio than Lafleur at his prime..

Lemieux was just unreal

Yeah it's really hard to compare eras when early 90s to mid 2010s had the best goaltending as a collective of all time and the generations both before and after had inferior goaltending. Also the 05 lockout rule changes changed how offence was executed. Lemieux doing what he did was absolutely ridiculous,only being trumped by Gretzky. Lafleur was great but at the same time, Bobby Clarke had more MVPs in the same era so....

 

[Kennerback]

Until the 74-75 season the generational player was Bobby Orr (that twists and turns like Demidov but I digress). Then in 1980, it’s Gretzky. Does the 5 year window in between count for a generation? And if it does who’s the generational player?

 

[Zilo44]

The players I would call generational are (outside of goalies) : Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby and McDavid.

A tier below that, I would have the Ovechkin, Ray Bourque, Jagr, Lidstrom of this world.

 

[waffledave]

Jagr has to be considered generational too.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Jagr has to be considered generational too.

I know this isn't a strong argument but you just can't be considered generational when you only had 1 Hart. At least Crosby only having 2 has a very good excuse

 

[Essenege]

In his prime years he played 5 vs 5 with Lemaire and Shutt.

In his prime years healthy Lemieux played 5 vs 5 with Dan Quinn and Randy Cunneyworth or Rob Brown and Bob Errey

At 22 years old.in 1988..Lemieux did 168 points and the second best scorer with the Pens was Quinn with 79 points.

The year after Lemieux did 199 points in 76 games and the first power play unit was Lemieux Brown, Errey, Coffey and Taglianetti.....

Not exactly the Habs rester of the 70s..right....??

Lemieux was way better than Lafleur..way better.... come on.

Lemieux retired at 31...came back in 2000 in the dead puck era with Hasek Brodeur, Roy, Joseph, Belfour etc... in net and the trap, defensive systems etc ..... he was 35 years old when he came back and...scored....35......goals.....in 43 games......and 76 points.

Lafleur was a hell of a player but Lemieux was a martian...a generational player and I have seen them both at their prime...


Can you imagine that after 4 years retirement...at 35 years old in the dead puck era.....Lemieux scored at a better ratio than Lafleur at his prime..

Lemieux was just unreal

All that to answer an argument I didn’t make, of course Lemieux was better than Lafleur.

 

[ReHabs]

Jagr, Crosby, and Lafleur are all generational players. Not better than Super Mario but nevertheless the bar isn't "you literally have to be the best to over play" in order to be a generational star. Come on now don't be silly.

 

[CanadienShark]

Generational is an overrated term.

AINEC

 

[Essenege]

The players I would call generational are (outside of goalies) : Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby and McDavid.

A tier below that, I would have the Ovechkin, Ray Bourque, Jagr, Lidstrom of this world.

There’s 5 years since the 40s not covered in your list. There’s a guy who had 641 points and is +337 in 4 seasons in that stretch, far ahead of any other players including his linemates.

But the guy get no recognition because he’s sandwiched between the top 4 goats. Hes still the best player of his generation, which coincidentally is the largest hockey generation Canada has seen.

 

[CHwest]

Generational is an overrated term.

I have watched hockey since about 72, I believe I have only personally seen four. Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux and now McDavid. I saw Howe at the tail end of his career so won't commit a comment.

 

[26Mats]

The players I would call generational are (outside of goalies) : Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby and McDavid.

A tier below that, I would have the Ovechkin, Ray Bourque, Jagr, Lidstrom of this world.

I think of generational as one of the best of their generation at what they do, or one of the best of all time. So Lindstrom and Ovechkin are definitely generational for me. Jagr also. Bourque then also.

I would put the players you listed as in the conversation for GOAT, the cream of the generational players.

 

[26Mats]

DEMIDOV IS A FREAKING HABS

Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Demidov
- Dach - Caufield

One more and the rebuild is over

It's going to be interesting to see how Hughes builds and tweaks this team, including the top 6.

If you look at most contending teams, their 6th highest producing forward rarely has as many points as Newhook, Roy, or Hage project to have. So maybe one of those two will complete the top 6.

On the other hand, maybe our best two or three offensive players never end up being as good as Barkov-Tkachuk-Reinhardt, McDavid-Draisaitl-Kane or Panarin-Zibenijad-Kreider. So maybe we build a team with a depth of offensive players. The Stars had 8 forwards with more than 50 points! Plus they called up Stankoven who paced for 50+ points.

 

[Naslundforever]

Have we decided if Demidov has had a better career than Mario yet? Or has it only been Jagr/Ray Bourque level? I must have slept in.

I do wonder if he continues playing his off-wing though or if they will play him regular in the nhl (if he ever makes the roster)?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Have we decided if Demidov has had a better career than Mario yet? Or has it only been Jagr/Ray Bourque level? I must have slept in.

I do wonder if he continues playing his off-wing though or if they will play him regular in the nhl (if he ever makes the roster)?

He's already chasing Gretzky's records. Ovi's already taken a backseat to Ivan right now.

 

[HabbyGuy]

He's already chasing Gretzky's records. Ovi's already taken a backseat to Ivan right now.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Guy Lafleur was not a generational player.
Look around everywhere and nobody outside Montréal are saying that he was one.

Lafleur was done at 29.. Lafleur was the best player in the world in the mid 70s for about 5 years.

It s not because you are the best in the world for a time that a player is considered a generational player.

There is a difference between a star , franchise and generational player

Lafleur was a franchise player.

On all list by almost all experts in the world of hockey...those are the only generational players in history:

Howe
Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Crosby
Mcdavid

Thats it


The Rocket was not even close to be a generational player. He was the best scorer...thsts it...The dude never won the Art Ross.and he had less than 30 assists ler season...come on..

What Lafleur did was unprecendented. Only Gretzky and Bossy managed six consecutive 50/100 seasons. Lafleur was the best player in the league and I don't think it's out of line to say 'generational'. He was also insanely good in the playoffs.

As for him being done by 29, some of that was due to injury and some was due to politics. Lemaire benched him before his career was really over and rather than force a trade, Lafleur simply retired. He came back four or five years later and put up respectable points. No reason to think he couldn't at least have had some productive years.

Lafleur's prime wasn't the longest but six straight incredible years... that's a pretty sustained period of being the best in the league. He's not Gretzky but he's one of the best players who ever played. He's a borderline top ten player of all time.

Not sure what this has to do with Demidov though. Are we saying he'll be our best forward since Lafleur or are we saying he's generational? Sounds like he's coming in with no pressure whatsoever.

 

[SOLR]

The players I would call generational are (outside of goalies) : Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Crosby and McDavid.

A tier below that, I would have the Ovechkin, Ray Bourque, Jagr, Lidstrom of this world.

The rocket was generational for sure.
Lafleur was generational for sure.

 

[MarkJ]

all the jinxing here. I expect him to never come to America now or be another Kostitsyn.