2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[BernieParent]

Opening night defense if Seeler can't go?

Sanheim-Risto
York-Drysdale
Zamula-Johnson

"And with the first overall selection in the 2025 NHL draft ..."

 

[ajgoal]

"And with the first overall selection in the 2025 NHL draft ..."

"Anaheim selects..."

 

[Beef Invictus]

Only points matter, don't bother to tell me that a Flyer is good defensively, bad drafting.

Oh, Bergeron is elite b/c he was a great defensive center even though he only scored at a 2C pace!

Hmm, so is defense that important? If so, what's wrong with a HC stressing defense?

Luchanko isn't anywhere near good enough defensively to compensate for low production. This isn't a guy likely to not score much but still outscore his opposition. You need to be a Couturier/Bergeron level player to do that; it is outlier territory. Luchanko is neither.

The chance that the Flyers keep him beyond 9 games is bad stuff.

 

[freakydallas13]

We're too liberal when we throw around the word elite! That's reserved for things like Luchanko's speed or Cates' defence! Best respect the true elites.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I’ve said over and over that Foerster is the most underrated asset they have because 1st round talents who produce high end NHL defensive metrics this early in their pro careers strongly tend to figure everything out. I stand by that entirely.

I have more hope for him than any non-Michkov 25 and under asset in the org by a mile.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’ve said over and over that Foerster is the most underrated asset they have because 1st round talents who produce high end NHL defensive metrics this early in their pro careers strongly tend to figure everything out. I stand by that entirely.

I have more hope for him than any non-Michkov 25 and under asset in the org by a mile.

Strange how he has been able to keep up in the NHL without first dominating the AHL.

Ah right, silly me, that standard doesn't exist anymore

 

[Starat327]

We're too liberal when we throw around the word elite! That's reserved for things like Luchanko's speed or Cates' defence! Best respect the true elites.

Very good results for a short period arent elite, but over a long range, thats elite.

Bergeron -- Top 3 in Selke finishes for a 12 year stretch. Maybe its not a long sample size? I mean, Hakstols 373 games wasnt. Why would bergeron's 918 be enough?

Being inarguably the best defensive forward over that time and putting near/close to PPG? Not Elite.

Edit: Credit Hockeyref for the data, obviously.

 

[BernieParent]

"Anaheim selects..."

 

[ajgoal]

Property of the LA Whalers, sir.

 

[freakydallas13]

Very good results for a short period arent elite, but over a long range, thats elite.

Bergeron -- Top 3 in Selke finishes for a 12 year stretch. Maybe its not a long sample size? I mean, Hakstols 373 games wasnt. Why would bergeron's 918 be enough?

View attachment 913504

Being inarguably the best defensive forward over that time and putting near/close to PPG? Not Elite.

Edit: Credit Hockeyref for the data, obviously.

Pffft, second liner at best. Have you considered that Cates put up 18 points in 59 games last year? That's production, baby.

E L I T E. S E L K E. F O R W A R D. blessed are we to even be in the presence of someone so elite as Cates.

 

[deadhead]

Bergeron was #45, Chara #56, Lucic #50, Krejci #56, Marchand #71
Horton, trade for 1st and 3rd
Seidenberg, trade for 2nd rd
Recchi, trade w/ 2nd rd pick for Karsums and Lashoff
Ryder, FA
Thomas had 5 good seasons from age 33-37.
7th rd pick who was in the AHL at 28, 29, Finland at 30, back to AHL at 31.

Wheeler #5, Seguin #2 played minor roles in the Bruin Cup run. Then were traded for "peanuts."

Now you're not going to land the next Bergeron in the 2nd rd again, but you're not going to need a top 5 pick to land a solid two way center either.

Point is team building is just that, and there are alternative paths to success.
Most teams fail, but most tanks fail as well.
You only remember the ones that succeed.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

So you need to make a whole bunch of picks because no one is actively good at drafting? We are so close here. I can feel it. The nexus is approaching.

 

[Starat327]

Solid two way center. Lol.

As I said, enjoy the court jester, folks.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Most Cup winners have hot goalies.
Bergeron never had 50 ES points in a season. Great defensive center but elite?
Chara was a huge, durable minutes eater. Had a very good 7 season stretch of excellence.
Norris voting:
2007-08: 3rd
2008-09: 1st
2009-10: 8th
2010-11: 3rd
2011-12: 3rd
2012-13: 5th
2013-14: 2nd

That's very good, but was he elite?
Elite by definition is a small group of players.
For example at center, McDavid, McKinnon, Matthews. Who else qualifies?

Dude seriously? It’s tough to pick what I want to yell at with the quantity of posts. But this is a hill you want to die on?

Chara was a top three defensemen in the league during that run, when his competition included someone who arguably has done it better than anyone not named Bobby Orr.

(Okay, glad everyone else is seeing what I’m seeing here.)

 

[BernieParent]

Property of the LA Whalers, sir.

Property of the Tampa Bay FireSticks Halifax Galleons.

 

[ajgoal]

Property of the Tampa Bay FireSticks Halifax Galleons.

Only because the owners of M*A*S*H* permit it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So you need to make a whole bunch of picks because no one is actively good at drafting? We are so close here. I can feel it. The nexus is approaching.

Sounds like a good reason to have traded away JVR, Laughton, Seeler, and Hathaway for more chances at picking instead of what-have-you

 

[deadhead]

Luchanko isn't anywhere near good enough defensively to compensate for low production. This isn't a guy likely to not score much but still outscore his opposition. You need to be a Couturier/Bergeron level player to do that; it is outlier territory. Luchanko is neither.

The chance that the Flyers keep him beyond 9 games is bad stuff.

At 18? of course not. Down the road, who knows?

The fact they're even looking at him says they're not seriously trying to compete this season.

So you need to make a whole bunch of picks because no one is actively good at drafting? We are so close here. I can feel it. The nexus is approaching.

Pretty much, most studies of drafting says it's pretty random.
Good drafters can garner a little edge, but even the best drafters miss more than they hit.
Much like finance, where the myth of the brilliant financial analyst has been pretty much debunked.

 

[Curufinwe]

Dude seriously? It’s tough to pick what I want to yell at with the quantity of posts. But this is a hill you want to die on?

Chara was a top three defensemen in the league during that run, when his competition included someone who arguably has done it better than anyone not named Bobby Orr.

(Okay, glad everyone else is seeing what I’m seeing here.)

Big Z wasn't that good is his prime is the hockey equivalent of "they control the weather".

 

[trostol]

wait..Bergeron isn't elite but Cates is? well..f*** I know I am not high enough now

 

[deadhead]

Pffft, second liner at best. Have you considered that Cates put up 18 points in 59 games last year? That's production, baby.

E L I T E. S E L K E. F O R W A R D. blessed are we to even be in the presence of someone so elite as Cates.

wait..Bergeron isn't elite but Cates is? well..f*** I know I am not high enough now

Hey, what can I say, freakydallas13 is out there.
Don't know where he came up with his Cates is "elite" stuff.

 

[trostol]

Hey, what can I say, freakydallas13 is out there.
Don't know where he came up with his Cates is "elite" stuff.

no sir...you are the one that says Cates is elite level defensively

 

[ajgoal]

wait..Bergeron isn't elite but Cates is? well..f*** I know I am not high enough now

If you're on here, you should already know that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Pretty much, most studies of drafting says it's pretty random.
Good drafters can garner a little edge, but even the best drafters miss more than they hit.
Much like finance, where the myth of the brilliant financial analyst has been pretty much debunked.

I’m counting this as a group win. Well done everyone involved. Now no one go and ruin it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At 18? of course not. Down the road, who knows?

The fact they're even looking at him says they're not seriously trying to compete this season.

Pretty much, most studies of drafting says it's pretty random.
Good drafters can garner a little edge, but even the best drafters miss more than they hit.
Much like finance, where the myth of the brilliant financial analyst has been pretty much debunked.

Nothing this team has done for years suggests this. The opposite, actually.

If they're not trying to compete then why weren't Laughton, Seeler, and Hathaway turned into picks? Either they aren't doing what you say, or they're incompetent at doing it, or both.

(Both)