JojoTheWhale
Lusting Stromboli
- May 22, 2008
- 35,107
- 109,120
OH MY GOD I MISSED THE CHARA THING TOO @SuperFriends
2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging
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Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
If anyone ever needed a good reason to put this man on the "i dont want to see his posts anymore" list -- this is about as good as it comes.
I dont know what world you can classify Bergeron as anything but elite, even if elite is by nature a subjective term.
freakydallas13
Registered User
It's easier to compare Luchanko and Bergeron when you don't think Bergeron was elite defensively.
Bergeron and big Z? Not elite. But Luchanko's speed? You best believe that is elite.
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
freakydallas13
Registered User
When you constantly have to realign your world view to support whatever decisions the Flyers make (no matter how stupid the decisions are), you see posts like this.
Appleyard
Registered User
That was in a lower scoring era of hockey.
That season they had FOUR of the top 29 EV scorers in the NHL lmao.
They had 2x #1 Dmen... including a Norris winner and one of the best Dmen of his generation...
Kaberle had been the #1 in Toronto and was a few seasons removed from a 70 point, 28 minute a night season... and was universally regarded as one of the top ~20-25 Dmen in the league from ~2000-2011.
And they had one of the best goalies in the world.
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
Bergeron wouldnt have gotten a 9 game trial on this flyers. His defensive game isnt at the same level of Luch's.
ajgoal
Almost always never serious
- Jun 29, 2015
- 9,771
- 28,449
Yes.
PP1 - Drysdale, Michkov, Tippett, Frost (net front/low), TK (bumper)
PP2 - Zamula, Foerster, Luchenko, Brink (bumper), Farabee (net front/low)
I don't love Frost in that position but if it's anything like pre-season at least they were using the down low guy more as a passing option than a true net front player.
ponder719
M-M-M-Matvei and the Jett
I will admit to engaging in some devil's advocacy from time to time, but this beggars belief, deady. Thomas was on an unbelievable heater, and was a top 3 goalie at the position at that time. Bergeron and Chara are first-ballot lock Hall of Famers in the prime of their careers. If your definition of elite doesn't include them, it is so narrow as to be utterly worthless.
FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
It is cute that the Flyers would dare to compare themselves to the Bruins.
Not that Danny is doing it, but I’d chuckle.
This team is the Sundin era Maple Leafs, or Buffalo Sabres - nothing more. Bottom 3 managed franchise in the NHL.
Not that Danny is doing it, but I’d chuckle.
This team is the Sundin era Maple Leafs, or Buffalo Sabres - nothing more. Bottom 3 managed franchise in the NHL.
Gotcha. If Fedotov is struggling I doubt someone would claim him at his salary if he's not showing anything, but I could see Ersson getting claimed. Probably means that Kolosov won't be up unless there is an injury I would guess.
JojoTheWhale
Lusting Stromboli
- May 22, 2008
- 35,107
- 109,120
I think we also have a difficult time putting players like Krejci into context. The peak of his perception was early in his career. Not the most consistent from year to year during part of what should have been his expected prime. Not really flashy in any physical talent sort of a way. Much more of a playmaker than a scorer and never got the kind of star credit he should have for the high end playmaking.
Not a HoFer. But a very, very good player.
Not a HoFer. But a very, very good player.
ponder719
M-M-M-Matvei and the Jett
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
Krejci was a key memeber of several of may fantasy championship teams over the years.
That's kind of how it is though unless you wind up with the truly generational elite talent of a Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, etc. It's why there aren't a ton of dynasties. Regardless of how your team is constructed, whether it is through the draft, free agencies, trades, or more likely a combination of those things with a ton of luck sprinkled in, the chances are that a lot of those guys won't be the same guys 2-3 years later. With the salary cap and injuries and so forth you're lucky to have a five year run of truly competitive hockey unless you land the aforementioned generational talent. 31/32 teams fail every year, that's why you take your shot when you can and that's why the "all you need is to get in" mentality exists.
I would gladly take a single Cup with Michkov (or anyone) even if it means we suck for the following ten years. Yes, obviously we'd all prefer to win every year and be in the mix every year, but getting one is good enough. Worry about it later. The odds are forever against you winning every year no matter how good your team is.
Appleyard
Registered User
He was certainly one of the best ~20-25 Cs in the NHL over his prime from 2008-2019 on balance.
renberg
Registered User
Putting Luchenko on PP2 is BS. That's Couturier's spot.
There might be something going on with SC. Perhaps he's banged up already but there have been several articles in the press noting that SC is not playing up to speed. Briere said yesterday that he felt the need to tell some of the veterans to pick up their games. It could be that SC's speed is off but he's never been a burner on the ice. Most likely it's Tortorella ragging on SC with his usual head games crap.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 50,131
- 21,937
Only points matter, don't bother to tell me that a Flyer is good defensively, bad drafting.
Oh, Bergeron is elite b/c he was a great defensive center even though he only scored at a 2C pace!
Hmm, so is defense that important? If so, what's wrong with a HC stressing defense?
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
- 56,718
- 44,878
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 50,131
- 21,937
The term "elite" is overused, similar to how "brilliant" or "genius" is overused.
Elite means just that, not very good for a few years, but the very best.
No one argues whether McDavid is elite. It's obvious.
The way Orr or Gretzky were elite.
Next tier are elite players where it's not quite as certain, in today's NHL, McKinnon, Matthews at center, Ovechkin at forward, Makar on defense, etc. Clearly better than their peers, but not all time greats. For example, Ovechkin is a great goal scorer, but rest of his game isn't special. Crosby is a special center, but you don't mention him in the same breath with McDavid. HOF guys, but not in the GOAT conversation.
Third tier are really good players who are border line elite, but have some flaw or limitation. Toews, Kopitar, Barkov, Kane, Doughty, etc.
Four tier are very good players who were never really dominant players, Giroux is a good example.
Fifth tier are very good players who couldn't sustain that level of play over a decade or longer.
You can build Cup winners around 3rd, 4th and 5th tier players and a little luck.
It's easier if you have a Tier 2 player. but still only a dozen or so in the league at any one time.
Maybe one team a decade has a Tier 1 player.
Elite means just that, not very good for a few years, but the very best.
No one argues whether McDavid is elite. It's obvious.
The way Orr or Gretzky were elite.
Next tier are elite players where it's not quite as certain, in today's NHL, McKinnon, Matthews at center, Ovechkin at forward, Makar on defense, etc. Clearly better than their peers, but not all time greats. For example, Ovechkin is a great goal scorer, but rest of his game isn't special. Crosby is a special center, but you don't mention him in the same breath with McDavid. HOF guys, but not in the GOAT conversation.
Third tier are really good players who are border line elite, but have some flaw or limitation. Toews, Kopitar, Barkov, Kane, Doughty, etc.
Four tier are very good players who were never really dominant players, Giroux is a good example.
Fifth tier are very good players who couldn't sustain that level of play over a decade or longer.
You can build Cup winners around 3rd, 4th and 5th tier players and a little luck.
It's easier if you have a Tier 2 player. but still only a dozen or so in the league at any one time.
Maybe one team a decade has a Tier 1 player.
BernieParent
In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Point well taken, dead. "Elite" gets tossed around far too easily by most everyone -- Cates? -- and unless there is some generally accepted criteria, we should put a moratorium on it because it just becomes another superlative.
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
I appreciate the court jester showing up in timely fashion for us all to have a good laugh. Please, Carry on.
