Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[Blitzkrug]

Anyways I'm done for now, hopefully I've opened some peoples eyes a bit on what's been going on for the last 8 years under these clowns, and how poorly the Jays have been run under them, I know not all will see it I get that, but hopefully some start seeing it a bit more, but I'll be back when the Jays sign someone maybe in a few days or weeks who knows if anyone of value is left

You haven't. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

 

[GreytWun]

lol someone’s mad.

 

[aingefan]

Or like how bergevin ran the habs for his 10 year tenure. Still trying to get out of those terrible contracts be handed out. At least leaf amd canuck fans can look forward to the playoffs. I cheer for mtl and the jays no playoffs with these rosters


Interesting strategy trying for burnes but if you land him you still need offense that wont be cheap. Dont know how this management can pull it off. Bullpen well you can get lucky

Lots of reports that they’re targeting a big bat and a premium starter (I prefer Fried, but wouldn’t be upset with Burnes at all).

It’s a tall order but this isn’t a poor franchise. That would set up the team pretty well, from an offence and pitching pov.

I mean, how much better is the offence next year compared to 23 if you just add Santander? It’s a pretty big jump, I think.

I mean, my glass is pretty half full, but I think you can count on near average production (700 ops) from C, 2B, SS, 3B and CF and wherever Horwitz plays with in house guys. Above average from Santander, and well above average from Vladdy. Plus whatever you get from Springer.

And that’s before you count on Bo, or what you get out of a trade with him, and no real projected spots at 60% of average - like lots of teams trotted out last year at various spots.

And some breakout potential from Barger, Loperfido, or OMart.

And I’m not sure what I’d peg as a return for Bassitt at say 15 mil, but if you eat money….there’s undervalued guys out there to fill the gaps.

Maybe a bit optimistic, but two big signings and it’s a big offseason.

 

[Tony Romo]

take the money you offered Soto and offer half of it to Kyle Tucker next year,imo

 

[Hellcat]

I was never aware the AL East was a defense first division over an Offense first division, when did that change... Or what made these guys think that's going to make you a top team in the AL East against teams like the Yankees or Sox or now Orioles...

I think Shatkins decided that when they dumped Lourdes and Teo. They must have had a sleep over and watched Moneyball a few winters back and decide they wanted to both be Brad Pitt. I have zero doubt that Atkins reenacted this exact scene in a Blue Jays meeting room before they dumped Teo and Lourdes.



Baseball is famous for having stubborn trains of though that some GM's believe its the be all and end all. Some say small ball defence and pitching, some say swing for the stars. I grew up in an era that said the only way you can win is defence up the middle ( C, SP, 2B, SS, CF) and run production at the corners (1B, 3B, LF, RF). In todays day it's all about advance statistics, what ever the bean counters tell you is true is true. So in todays day we let the numbers and spread sheets decide the game. I'm sure Atkins and Shapiro had their numbers nerds crunch the numbers and it told them the way to win is, pitching and defence.

I do subscribe to an old school mentality that defence up the middle and run production at the corners is my preference on how to build a team. I like my defence first guys to be speedy and great base runners to put pressure on the pitching staff when they get on, not free swingers. My ideal 3B is a Gruber, Sprague, Donaldson type, lunch box Larry's that have quick feet at the corner. I like my pitching staff to be more pitchers vs throwers. Someone will have 101 reasons why what I like in a team will not work, I have 101 why that is my preference.

 

[Hellcat]

take the money you offered Soto and offer half of it to Kyle Tucker next year,imo

It's not available. They had a super secret war chest only for players who's ROI would out pace the 800+ mil contract. You're not wrong though, he is a poor mans Soto. Stupid good at the plate

Was he hurt last year?

 

[dredeye]

Yes they did, they thought that SHATKINS did, hence why they tried keeping him around hoping he would turn into this player they thought they evaluated for that. Again they were wrong.

Shapiro and Atkins obviously thought that. I thought you were talking about Jays fans who were not

Houston traded derek fisher to toronto. Toronto traded sanchez,biagini and cal stevenson to houston.

That’s right. I mixed him up with the Drury McKinney trade. Thought it was fisher and Drury.

 

[tmlfan98]

LMAO Shatkins might have to move on to Plan C quick, so much for Fried plus Santander.

 

[habamillions]

Alright burnes and santander for the next few hours before they move on to other teams

 

[dredeye]

If the Astros are willing to trade Tucker and Valdez I’m assuming the jays have reached out

 

[Woodman19]

If the Astros are willing to trade Tucker and Valdez I’m assuming the jays have reached out

Sure why not, with our deep farm and not 2 other core players facing FA all in the same year. What could possibly go wrong? (I do like them though lol)

 

[Starry Knight]

I get that people hate Shapiro and Atkins (and not completely without reason), but the past couple seasons have had some seriously GM-independent issues that are out of a teams' control.

If Alek Manoah didn't spontaneously combust, then the Jays have an ace starter to go along with their otherwise stellar rotation. Yeah, you shouldn't count on young pitchers to not have their arms blow up, but Manoah had a 2.24 ERA over nearly 200 innings. If you don't make a gamble on him maintaining that form, you are going to be forever a doomsday prepper.

If Bo Bichette didn't have a season from hell, the Jays would continue to have one of the best offensive shortstops in the game. Bo certainly has had some holes in his swing, but you can't expect your 5 fWAR SS to suddenly become a 0.3 fWAR SS.

If Romano was still Romano last season, the bullpen wouldn't have been as big of a dumpster fire, because everyone would have been pushed down a slot.

Hard to win when 8-10 WAR from premium positions get wiped off the map when they were planned as focal points for the past 1-2 seasons.

I feel like sports fans get in this cycle where they find it easier to be miserable and negative about their team because they are in a no-lose situation mentally. If the team does poorly, they can feel vindicated about their negativity and lord it over fans that choose to not be hopelessly negative. However, if their team ends up doing well, they can still be pleasantly surprised and be a bandwagon fan. This has completely poisoned discourse about about sports online and you can use this thread as prime evidence.

 

[Dr.Funk]

I get that people hate Shapiro and Atkins (and not completely without reason), but the past couple seasons have had some seriously GM-independent issues that are out of a teams' control.

If Alek Manoah didn't spontaneously combust, then the Jays have an ace starter to go along with their otherwise stellar rotation. Yeah, you shouldn't count on young pitchers to not have their arms blow up, but Manoah had a 2.24 ERA over nearly 200 innings. If you don't make a gamble on him maintaining that form, you are going to be forever a doomsday prepper.

If Bo Bichette didn't have a season from hell, the Jays would continue to have one of the best offensive shortstops in the game. Bo certainly has had some holes in his swing, but you can't expect your 5 fWAR SS to suddenly become a 0.3 fWAR SS.

If Romano was still Romano last season, the bullpen wouldn't have been as big of a dumpster fire, because everyone would have been pushed down a slot.

Hard to win when 8-10 WAR from premium positions get wiped off the map when they were planned as focal points for the past 1-2 seasons.

I feel like sports fans get in this cycle where they find it easier to be miserable and negative about their team because they are in a no-lose situation mentally. If the team does poorly, they can feel vindicated about their negativity and lord it over fans that choose to not be hopelessly negative. However, if their team ends up doing well, they can still be pleasantly surprised and be a bandwagon fan. This has completely poisoned discourse about about sports online and you can use this thread as prime evidence.

You must not be paying attention. This is no place for rational thought.

 

[trellaine201]

Are we linked to any player or players?

 

[GreytWun]

I get that people hate Shapiro and Atkins (and not completely without reason), but the past couple seasons have had some seriously GM-independent issues that are out of a teams' control.

If Alek Manoah didn't spontaneously combust, then the Jays have an ace starter to go along with their otherwise stellar rotation. Yeah, you shouldn't count on young pitchers to not have their arms blow up, but Manoah had a 2.24 ERA over nearly 200 innings. If you don't make a gamble on him maintaining that form, you are going to be forever a doomsday prepper.

If Bo Bichette didn't have a season from hell, the Jays would continue to have one of the best offensive shortstops in the game. Bo certainly has had some holes in his swing, but you can't expect your 5 fWAR SS to suddenly become a 0.3 fWAR SS.

If Romano was still Romano last season, the bullpen wouldn't have been as big of a dumpster fire, because everyone would have been pushed down a slot.

Hard to win when 8-10 WAR from premium positions get wiped off the map when they were planned as focal points for the past 1-2 seasons.

I feel like sports fans get in this cycle where they find it easier to be miserable and negative about their team because they are in a no-lose situation mentally. If the team does poorly, they can feel vindicated about their negativity and lord it over fans that choose to not be hopelessly negative. However, if their team ends up doing well, they can still be pleasantly surprised and be a bandwagon fan. This has completely poisoned discourse about about sports online and you can use this thread as prime evidence.

That is a hell lot of If’s

 

[Evilhomer]

I feel like sports fans get in this cycle where they find it easier to be miserable and negative about their team because they are in a no-lose situation mentally. If the team does poorly, they can feel vindicated about their negativity and lord it over fans that choose to not be hopelessly negative. However, if their team ends up doing well, they can still be pleasantly surprised and be a bandwagon fan. This has completely poisoned discourse about about sports online and you can use this thread as prime evidence.

This accurately describes about 90% of Leafs fans.

 

[Starry Knight]

That is a hell lot of If’s

Kind of the point, is it? You have to make a lot assumptions/gambles building sports team rosters--especially when you're not the Dodgers. You don't have unlimited resources nor the ability to see into the future.

It wasn't that long ago nearly all Dallas Stars fans were lamenting how bad Nill was a drafting and how the franchise was doomed. Now the general consensus around the league is that Nill is a drafting genius and that the Stars will be a contender for years to come.

The Jays have landed a number of high-end free agents and had Bichette and Guerrero emerge as star players. Issue is, Shapiro and Atkins have hired poor managers/hitting coaches and untimely injuries and poor play/father time have prevented this roster from fully realizing its potential. It doesn't absolve Shapiro/Atkins of guilt for not building a more resilient roster, but to act like they are a plague dooming this franchise is hyperbolic and needlessly pessimistic

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[shaner8989]

Trade VLAD trade Bo start over. That’s the only option left

Get a whack of sick prospects and go from there

This team ain’t even close to competing. Worst team in the East

 

[GreytWun]

Kind of the point, is it? You have to make a lot assumptions/gambles building sports team rosters--especially when you're not the Dodgers. You don't have unlimited resources nor the ability to see into the future.

It wasn't that long ago nearly all Dallas Stars fans were lamenting how bad Nill was a drafting and how the franchise was doomed. Now the general consensus around the league is that Nill is a drafting genius and that the Stars will be a contender for years to come.

The Jays have landed a number of high-end free agents and had Bichette and Guerrero emerge as star players. Issue is, Shapiro and Atkins have hired poor managers/hitting coaches and untimely injuries and poor play/father time have prevented this roster from fully realizing its potential. It doesn't absolve Shapiro/Atkins of guilt for not building a more resilient roster, but to act like they are a plague dooming this franchise is hyperbolic and needlessly pessimistic

You can say a lot of if's for every team.

 

[rojac]

I get that people hate Shapiro and Atkins (and not completely without reason), but the past couple seasons have had some seriously GM-independent issues that are out of a teams' control.

If Alek Manoah didn't spontaneously combust, then the Jays have an ace starter to go along with their otherwise stellar rotation. Yeah, you shouldn't count on young pitchers to not have their arms blow up, but Manoah had a 2.24 ERA over nearly 200 innings. If you don't make a gamble on him maintaining that form, you are going to be forever a doomsday prepper.

If Bo Bichette didn't have a season from hell, the Jays would continue to have one of the best offensive shortstops in the game. Bo certainly has had some holes in his swing, but you can't expect your 5 fWAR SS to suddenly become a 0.3 fWAR SS.

If Romano was still Romano last season, the bullpen wouldn't have been as big of a dumpster fire, because everyone would have been pushed down a slot.

Hard to win when 8-10 WAR from premium positions get wiped off the map when they were planned as focal points for the past 1-2 seasons.

I feel like sports fans get in this cycle where they find it easier to be miserable and negative about their team because they are in a no-lose situation mentally. If the team does poorly, they can feel vindicated about their negativity and lord it over fans that choose to not be hopelessly negative. However, if their team ends up doing well, they can still be pleasantly surprised and be a bandwagon fan. This has completely poisoned discourse about about sports online and you can use this thread as prime evidence.

I also think the over negative posters drive away the more rational posters or at least strive them to post in less which creates an echo chamber of negativity.

 

[rojac]

Has anybody heard if the Jays are one of the teams in on Nolan Arenado?

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Ale Brew]

Has anybody heard if the Jays are one of the teams in on Nolan Arenado?

Haven’t seen any actual reports, just speculation that we make sense as an option.

Not sure I’d want to take the risk with his declining production and significant contract remaining.

The Cards would have to eat a lot of salary to make it make sense, and that would likely increase the prospect capital to get it done.

Arenado would also need to waive his no trade clause, and it’s likely he wants to play for a more clear cut contender.

 

[canucksfan]

I also think the over negative posters drive away the more rational posters or at least strive them to post in less which creates an echo chamber of negativity.

100%.