Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[Blitzkrug]

Let's go back 6 years ago and watch this interview from Atkins talking about how they're going to be extremely competitive in 3 years, and they'll be extremely disappointed if they're not. Oh and that player to be named later who was going to be such a big impact player for the Jays at the MLB level was Julian Merryweather.

6 years ago was 2018, 3 years after that was 2021 where they were in fact, extremely competitive.

There are plenty of things to criticize Atkins over without having to resort to strawmen or bad faith

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I remember when this group also thought Derek Fisher the guy who took the ball in the face was going to be part of the future on this team, they were sold on it.

 

[Woodman19]

No loss on Romano, if he was from Ohio nobody would care that we let him walk.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

6 years ago was 2018, 3 years after that was 2021 where they were in fact, extremely competitive.

There are plenty of things to criticize Atkins over without having to resort to strawmen or bad faith

Actually they overachieved in 2020 and made the postseason and went 0-2, they didn't make the postseason in 2021, they made the postseason in 2022 and went 0-2, they made the postseason in 2023 and went 0-2. Normally if you're extremely competitive you can win at least 1 game in the postseason, and how you claim they were extremely competitive especially in the year they didn't even make the postseason, huh.

The fact you're trying to defend them still is mind boggling.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Actually they overachieved in 2020 and made the postseason and went 0-2, they didn't make the postseason in 2021, they made the postseason in 2022 and went 0-2, they made the postseason in 2023 and went 0-2. Normally if you're extremely competitive you can win at least 1 game in the postseason, and how you claim they were extremely competitive especially in the year they didn't even make the postseason, huh.

The fact you're trying to defend them still is mind boggling.

I'm not defending them lmao. I wanted the chucklef*** brigade gone in 2023.

But your arguments just make you look like a petty whiner with no actual basis outside of your feelings behind hurt

 

[Discoverer]

From 2020 to 2023, they had the 6th best regular season record in the league.

The playoffs have been an abject failure and they've absolutely gone in the wrong direction the last year or so, but those were three of the best regular season records we've ever seen from the Jays. For 3 or 4 years, they were basically a model of how you want to rebuild a team.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Statistically speaking, the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays bullpen was one of the worst we’ve seen in some time.

Its 4.82 ERA, 4.84 FIP, and 20.7 per cent strikeout rate all ranked last in the American League. A 41.2 per cent hard-hit rate and 1.46 HR/9 were MLB’s highest. At 2.5 wins below replacement per FanGraphs, it was the least productive bullpen since the 2018 Miami Marlins — one of only three to finish with -2.5 fWAR in the last decade.

Where the Blue Jays' bullpen rebuild begins

 

[Hellcat]

Why Rogers lets this shit GM and shit President of Operations continue to damage this organization is beyond me.

Our farm team is bottom quartile rankings, we finished 7th last and were one of the top payroll teams last year. You could give anyone on this msg board that knows how to throw a curve, fastball, slider the same time, same money for a roster and 9 out of 10 times they would get better results.

The time to build your roster is when everyone is clutching their pearls waiting for Soto , not after he signs. To think Sha-tkins thought we had the remotest chance to win Soto, when the owner of the Mets is a billionaire twenty times over and has shown zero resistance to throwing money around like he is a drunk on pervert row at a strip club. Soto has no emotional connection to the Jays. The Jays have two stars and a bunch of Meh! Our pitching is getting old, our bullpen needs a significant retool. We weren't going to out bid our competition over NYM, we weren't going to out pull on Soto's emotional heart strings over the NYY, we were not going to wow him with our roster over the Dodgers. The only benefit in going through this joke of a process is if there were other players that Boras represents that he will be reasonable in negotiations. IE we go OK, use as a pawn to pump up the price for Soto but when we come knocking for certain players you better be fair.




I forget who said it but a GM once said the biggest sin of a GM is falling in love with your players and convincing yourself your team is somethign it is not. 7th last in the standings and a bottom quartile prospect pool is what we are. A contender is what Atkins and Shapiro think we are. We are not a Soto away from contending.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

From 2020 to 2023, they had the 6th best regular season record in the league.

The playoffs have been an abject failure and they've absolutely gone in the wrong direction the last year or so, but those were three of the best regular season records we've ever seen from the Jays. For 3 or 4 years, they were basically a model of how you want to rebuild a team.

A model... They struggled to produce runs in 2023 especially RISP, after they went with a defense first mentality, even Buck Martinez said in 2023 in a broadcast game how these Jays can't beat teams over .500. I'm shocked you're so out of touch of what's really going on here.

 

[Amadeus]

There fact that Vladdy is where he is going into his last year is a reflection of how undecided this team is on his future outlook.

If that's the case, you just trade him now. I don't see him signing long term here at all.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I'm not defending them lmao. I wanted the chucklef*** brigade gone in 2023.

But your arguments just make you look like a petty whiner with no actual basis outside of your feelings behind hurt

You seem to struggle accepting the facts then sadly.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why Rogers lets this shit GM and shit President of Operations continue to damage this organization is beyond me.

Our farm team is bottom quartile rankings, we finished 7th last and were one of the top payroll teams last year. You could give anyone on this msg board that knows how to throw a curve, fastball, slider the same time, same money for a roster and 9 out of 10 times they would get better results.

The time to build your roster is when everyone is clutching their pearls waiting for Soto , not after he signs. To think Sha-tkins thought we had the remotest chance to win Soto, when the owner of the Mets is a billionaire twenty times over and has shown zero resistance to throwing money around like he is a drunk on pervert row at a strip club. Soto has no emotional connection to the Jays. The Jays have two stars and a bunch of Meh! Our pitching is getting old, our bullpen needs a significant retool. We weren't going to out bid our competition over NYM, we weren't going to out emotional pull on Soto's emotional heart strings over the NYY, we were not going to wow him with our roster over the Dodgers. The only benefit in going through this joke of a process is if there were other players that Boras represents that he will be reasonable in negotiations. IE we go OK, use as a pawn to pump up the price for Soto but when we come knocking for you better be fair.




I forget who said it but a GM once said the biggest sin of a GM is falling in love with your players and convincing yourself your team is somethign it is not. 7th last in the standings and a bottom quartile prospect pool is what we are. A contender is what Atkins and Shapiro think we are. We are not a Soto away from contending.

It’s actually incredible to watch what they are doing to the franchise and even more incredible that Rogers doesn’t care.

 

[Discoverer]

A model... They struggled to produce runs in 2023 especially RISP, after they went with a defense first mentality, even Buck Martinez said in 2023 in a broadcast game how these Jays can't beat teams over .500. I'm shocked you're so out of touch of what's really going on here.

FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS. From 2020 to 2022/23 ish (wherever you want to draw that line), they were one of the best teams in the league after a very short rebuild. Are you even reading the things I'm writing? It's not that complicated.

Management has made some huge missteps the last couple of years that have put them where they are today, but you're being intentionally obtuse if you can't see how good things were looking a couple years ago.

 

[Hellcat]

It’s actually incredible to watch what they are doing to the franchise and even more incredible that Rogers doesn’t care.

Maybe Shapiro is a silver tonged devil that talk his way out of accountability. I've been in C Suite meetings where my job was to STFU and observe and share my observations afterwards. I've seen some executives who clearly under performed, everyone and their dog knew it, and they turn poo and day old garbage into diamonds and pearls. Not all con men are criminals, some are CEO's & VP's. Some of those slick bastards can convince a man on fire he needs to buy more gasoline.

Even to a casual fan like most of us, we can see something does not make sense.

 

[dredeye]

I remember when this group also thought Derek Fisher the guy who took the ball in the face was going to be part of the future on this team, they were sold on it.

View attachment 942415

No one thought that. There were gambles that no one was happy with. They grabbed draft pedigree really non prospects for what was the best pitcher on the market. It was an awful return. I can't remember the other guys name off the top of my head that came back in that deal but after they jays he did turn it around lol.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS. From 2020 to 2022/23 ish (wherever you want to draw that line), they were one of the best teams in the league after a very short rebuild. Are you even reading the things I'm writing? It's not that complicated.

Management has made some huge missteps the last couple of years that have put them where they are today, but you're being intentionally obtuse if you can't see how good things were looking a couple years ago.

Well 2021 they didn't make the postseason, 2023 they struggled to score with RISP and barley made it into the wildcard hence why no one thought they would do well in the postseason with their struggle offensively, so 2020 and 2022, that's 2 years, I don't get where this 3 or 4 years things you keep coming up with.

Huge mistakes is definitely a right answer, but thinking they really knew what they were doing is very questionable. The trades questionable, the signings questionable, the defense first mentality questionable, the farm system questionable, and this handling of Vlad very questionable. Where you're seeing this good is very questionable.

 

[Hellcat]

FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS. From 2020 to 2022/23 ish (wherever you want to draw that line), they were one of the best teams in the league after a very short rebuild. Are you even reading the things I'm writing? It's not that complicated.

Management has made some huge missteps the last couple of years that have put them where they are today, but you're being intentionally obtuse if you can't see how good things were looking a couple years ago.

Not sure I would put being embarrassed in the playoffs in the successful bucket. To get there, they had to strip our farm system. Living for today and tomorrow be damned, is typically not a good recipe for sustained success.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

No one thought that. There were gambles that no one was happy with. They grabbed draft pedigree really non prospects for what was the best pitcher on the market. It was an awful return. I can't remember the other guys name off the top of my head that came back in that deal but after they jays he did turn it around lol.

Yes they did, they thought that SHATKINS did, hence why they tried keeping him around hoping he would turn into this player they thought they evaluated for that. Again they were wrong.

 

[Hellcat]

Well 2021 they didn't make the postseason, 2023 they struggled to score with RISP and barley made it into the wildcard hence why no one thought they would do well in the postseason with their struggle offensively, so 2020 and 2022, that's 2 years, I don't get where this 3 or 4 years things you keep coming up with.

Huge mistakes is definitely a right answer, but thinking they really knew what they were doing is very questionable. The trades questionable, the signings questionable, the defense first mentality questionable, the farm system questionable, and this handling of Vlad very questionable. Where you're seeing this good is very questionable.

To be fair they had a big bopper mentality for a few years and defence was pretty shitty, then they decided to all in on defence and no "in" on offence. It is almost like they saw a plant that was starving for water so they drove 50 miles out into the ocean and threw the plant in the ocean... problem solved it has all the water it needs now. ..WTF?

 

[GreytWun]

Well 2021 they didn't make the postseason, 2023 they struggled to score with RISP and barley made it into the wildcard hence why no one thought they would do well in the postseason with their struggle offensively, so 2020 and 2022, that's 2 years, I don't get where this 3 or 4 years things you keep coming up with.

Huge mistakes is definitely a right answer, but thinking they really knew what they were doing is very questionable. The trades questionable, the signings questionable, the defense first mentality questionable, the farm system questionable, and this handling of Vlad very questionable. Where you're seeing this good is very questionable.

I prefer the Josh Donaldson mentality. It’s the get it done league. Who cares how great we were in the regular season we still lost when it mattered. 2nd place is first loser.

 

[MK78]

The price the Mets paid for Soto is insane. Jays were once again just used for a bidding war, knowing full well they weren't gonna win. But they just hurt themselves because Vladdy is gonna be even more expensive now.

If they are not going to be serious about the lineup and the bullpen and just sign "reclamation projects" or old guys like Justin Turner or Brandon Belt, they might as well just trade him and Bo and start.

 

[habamillions]

No one thought that. There were gambles that no one was happy with. They grabbed draft pedigree really non prospects for what was the best pitcher on the market. It was an awful return. I can't remember the other guys name off the top of my head that came back in that deal but after they jays he did turn it around lol.

Houston traded derek fisher to toronto. Toronto traded sanchez,biagini and cal stevenson to houston.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

To be fair they had a big bopper mentality for a few years and defence was pretty shitty, then they decided to all in on defence and no "in" on offence. It is almost like they saw a plant that was starving for water so they drove 50 miles out into the ocean and threw the plant in the ocean... problem solved it has all the water it needs now. ..WTF?

I was never aware the AL East was a defense first division over an Offense first division, when did that change... Or what made these guys think that's going to make you a top team in the AL East against teams like the Yankees or Sox or now Orioles...

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Jays Manager history last five years.

Charlie Montoya: 472 games 236 wins 236 loses .500 avg

John Schneider: 398 games 209 wins 189 loses .525 avg

Both with 0 wins in the postseason

Doesn't scream good imo.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Anyways I'm done for now, hopefully I've opened some peoples eyes a bit on what's been going on for the last 8 years under these clowns, and how poorly the Jays have been run under them, I know not all will see it I get that, but hopefully some start seeing it a bit more, but I'll be back when the Jays sign someone maybe in a few days or weeks who knows if anyone of value is left