Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
If he's going to develop arthritis in that knee, it will be well past his playing career.
Injury Report: 2024-25 Injury Report thread : Zegras (Out 6 weeks with torn meniscus)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
- Start date
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
The process has actually already started. The question is “when does it become clinically relevant”. That depends on the injury and the individual and what stresses they put on the joint.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
All joint inflammation can (does) cause cartilage damage. The keys are how much, how severe, and how long.
Also, the meniscus isn’t a ligament. It’s a piece of cartilage that sits between the femur and tibia and acts like a shock absorber. There’s one on both the inside and the outside of the joint.
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The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
Third serious injury in the last two seasons for Z, on top of the negative impact Cronin has. I wouldn’t have thought it was possible a couple years ago, when Z was coming off his second back to back 60 point season, but there’s a chance he could bust.
Small chance, SMALL. I’m saying small. But two years ago I’d have said zero.
Small chance, SMALL. I’m saying small. But two years ago I’d have said zero.
MMC
Global Moderator
FlyingV09
Registered User
He was our best forward before he got hurt. I’m sure he’ll be fine.
This team sure feels a lot less dangerous offensively with him out.
Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
anezthes
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Big sad if that happens. I’ve almost resigned myself to the idea that the Verbeek era might be a huge failure. Wouldn’t be surprised if we fail to develop any of the young players into elite talents capable of carrying the franchise for the next 10+ years.
anezthes
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Zegras out 6 weeks for Ducks after knee surgery | NHL.com
Forward has 10 points in 24 games this season
www.nhl.com
Zegras out 6 weeks for Ducks after knee surgery | NHL.com
Forward has 10 points in 24 games this season
Just what I always wanted for Z: 10 points in 24 games but really great at "puck battles along the wall." Truly a master tactician, bravo.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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- Oct 30, 2024
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I know you hate Cronin and are just obtuse sometimes to be obtuse…..we all want Zegras to not be a 30-40 pt grinder, but for development into a legit hockey player, puck battles along the wall do matter.
“Trevor is a very offensively gifted player…….and winning puck battles along the wall, which again is a compliment to his game….”
Like very clearly he is saying he’s offensively amazing, but he is even doing the small things better to compliment is overall game. Hopefully when things click he gets back to the near PPG pace with all the extra little things added to his game.
If he does that, he would become a top 30-40 ish player in the league, and not just a walking highlight reel on bad NHL teams losing 7-3.
You aren’t the only one, but people go player development waaaah, we suck at developing forwards. Then complain because we are trying to make Zegras more of a Pavel Datsyuk than a Mike Hoffman. The theory being that, once you add to your bag of tricks and stop having to “focus” on playing an overall better brand of winning hockey, the offensive output will come with it. Doesn’t always work, some people can not adjust, some people can’t get out of their own heads, some people just don’t care about winning.
Like we understand a lot of development is one step forward two steps back. You are focusing so hard on fixing the weaknesses in your game, that sometimes the things you do well take a backseat, the key is to get comfortable enough doing the weaknesses well, that it becomes second nature. This is where players take that “next step”. Sometimes it’s as simple as maturing physically. I played sports and I wasn’t some super tall athletic specimen, but I worked my ass off every game and practice whether it was I didn’t want to lose my starting job / or I wanted to take their starting job. But I didn’t have coaches going hey buddy, here are some of your weaknesses I think you should work on these / do these drills this offseason to take the next steps in your development as a complete “whatever sport” player.
All in all, you can be frustrated in the coach and want him gone because his system is stifling the offense output of this team. That’s fine. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, HCGC is here to instill a day in day out work ethic and change the culture to one of accountability and hard work. Hopefully our next head coach will be some offense genius that can have our team take the next step. Like maybe we get someone so smart…..like the first coach to be “hey maybe we should watch game film to scout our opponents”
And truly as far as Cronin is concerned, as long as he hasn’t lost the locker room (which none of us have any REAL insight too) then let him finish out the year and do his job. Which like I’ve said is to instil a work ethic and accountability into one’s self for the team. Then when the happy go lucky players coach who is an offensive genius comes in, the foundation is already laid for how players in this organization prepare on and off the ice.
And that’s my biggest problem with the fire Cronin chatter, advanced stats say this team is f***ing terrible / the eye test doesn’t say it’s much better. But Cronin wasn’t brought in to be some 10 year coach for us, he was brought in to (and I don’t know how many times I can say it) instil a work ethic and change the culture of an entire organization. You don’t fire that guy 1-2 months into his 2nd developmental year season (no matter what Verbeek said about playoffs), to try and win an extra 5 games and be an 80 pt team instead of 70 pts.
Yes it’s frustrating to watch, yes not enough young ducklings took major enough steps to push this team forward, yes we are probably missing the playoffs for the 8th straight year. But we are going to get some more Cutter and Leo time on the same line at some point, maybe Minty and Zelly some time together. We are doing small not so insignificant things that should have us better prepared for the future.
Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
When and if Cronin turns Z into the player you describe I'll gladly give him credit for that. But since he's been here we haven't seen one young player take a permanent step forward. We just keep seeing occasional flashes of brilliance and a lot of stumbling and bumbling the rest of the time. And that applies to all of them.
On a macro level that doesn't give me a warm or fuzzy feeling that Cronin is going to succeed using his methods. People are right to have their doubts.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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- Oct 30, 2024
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I’m just confused as to what prospects didn’t take a step forward ?
Minty / Zelly / Leo / Luneau / Cutter / Colangelo all played their first NHL games last season. With the first three no longer Calder eligible this season, and the last three all technically still rookies. LaCombe + Dostal also were rookies last year.
So of the prospects who weren’t rookies last year we have 3 guys. Drysdale - got hurt and traded.
McT went from 43 pts in 80 games as a rookie, to 42 pts in 64 games under Cronin, this year he’s taking a step back, but he took a step forward 44 points per 82 / 54 points per 82. Zegras - whose scoring as suffered greatly but looks like an all around better player.
So truly he has made 1 prospect have worse stats, but look like a better player, and then a bunch of rookies and second year guys. I don’t know which coach if anybody going to turn 18/19/20 year olds to start seasons into amazing hockey players in 1-1/4 of 2 seasons.
CrazyDuck4u
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Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
It's not about measuring statistics and who is Calder eligible. It's about playing better more consistently, looking comfortable on a regularly basis (which should result in better team offense and a few more wins). The team had a brief burst last year and recently this year where they looked like maybe they figured it out. But those bursts didn't last.
I'm not saying they won't eventually get there but I am saying that right now I'm very unimpressed by what Cronin has done and I'd be quite unhappy if we start trading guys like Mac before firing the coach and trying that first.
And as far a Z goes, I'll repeat my self from another post somewhere....If we turn Z into another Silfverberg that will be a total failure. I'm not saying we will. and hopefully we won't, but we are far from proving Z hasn't lost a significant part of his offense. And his D is still far from Silf level.
Time will tell how it all plays out but for now I'm very much less than enamored with the coach.
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TheDarkWingThatDucks
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I agree it’s not about stats and that and you can be very unimpressed so far with the job Cronin has done. Legit reasons for all that. I brought up the Calder and rookies because most 18/19/20 year olds don’t light the league on fire out the gate. Just merely pointing out, the next coach is probably going to have a lot of players going into 3-4th year and 22-24 years old. That is usually when players take bigger steps.
I agree with the Z point. And Mac too, he shouldn’t be traded unless it’s for a Brady T player, a bonafide too line player 25 years (ish) of age.
My major point is as long as Cronin has prospects working hard on and off the ice, working on their weaknesses to become better players for when the next coach comes into a team with everyone getting starting their peak. Then I’d think he did his job. The problem is, the proof is in the pudding and we do not know if he’s doing a good job or bad job on what I think his job is. The eye test doesn’t show that it’s working, but it’s not so black and white. We are laying the foundation for when Leo (and co) are 22-25. I’d like to believe Verbeek knows that’s important and if he is unhappy with how that is going internally he would make the change.
Cronin has a job and it’s not to win the Stanley cup, it’s to get the players ready for their mid 20’s and I hope he’s doing that job. Time will tell.
CrazyDuck4u
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I mean I said it when it happened. His helmet slid up at that moment he hit his head on the ice.. Hopefully mild concussion, nothing to serious
You are right, I am obtuse for the sake of it very often on here. 80% of my posts are tongue in cheek jokes about this or that. You are the second person in two days to attack me for my takes on this team so if anyone doesn't like it: f***ing put me on ignore. However, the nugget of truth in my jokes about Cronin is that I am not remotely convinced that his process with our young players is going to be successful.
I absolutely agree that being a successful battler in the corners is a useful trait, but why are we training the most offensively creative forward we've had since... Teemu? to be a mucker? It's generally understood that players on a line and on the team itself play different roles. Why are we taking a sky-high offensive IQ guy and training him to do a muckers job? Turn him into a PPG player and worry about rounding it out later. I am not remotely convinced that having Zegras take 5 steps back on his offense so he can take 1 step forward on his defense is smart. In fact, I think it's f***ing braindead.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
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Hey man, I was not trying to attack you, hence the I know you are obtuse for the sake of it. Tough to get tone down on interweb typing. But I was being sincere.
I think the problem for me is the he is a loud majority of fans who want to fire Cronin into the sun. The argument I am making is that, it’s tough to quantify the long term impact of him coaching the young ducks will have.
My main argument is as we are not privy to the day 2 day interactions and all the behind the scene stuff we have to take a little leap of faith. My position is that Cronin is here to make the young kids work habits a professional level. Can we are argue over whether his past has shown he should have gotten this job ? Sure. But it’s a little too late for that, he got the job, and when I listen to his actual interviews and not the right after game stuff. He comes off as a very intelligent and caring human. He speaks about the importance of relationship with his players, the importance of practicing like you play, Verbeek talks about the importance of the weight room and being physically ready for the grind of the season.
Cronin was 60 when hired, his shelf life was already minimal at best. If the right coach becomes available, yes you have to jump on it. But a lot of people here get mad when Verbeek doesn’t force NYR to retain or add picks, as if they couldn’t just outright waive them, and or other teams weren’t driving up the price.
I just get a little freaked out that we have so many people yelling the sky is falling at every little thing. Leo is putting up a high PPG than Barkov and Hughes did their 18 and 19 year old season. Does Cronin get the credit for that if he gets the blame for Zegras. And yes obviously Zegras taking 5 steps back for 1 step forward in something you don’t see a lot of value in Z’s overall game is not a good thing. But it’s not just the puck battles on the walls, it’s a lot of little things Zegras is improving on with his overall game. If he takes 5 steps back to take 1 step forward this year, and then next year he takes another 7 steps forward when it all clicks. Then it was worth it. Is there any facts or stats to say this is why Zegras will take those steps ? No. But watching Zegras play hockey the last 2 seasons (when he hasn’t been hurt) although the PPG were not there, he looked his best I’ve seen him as a hockey player.
Like I said if you care more about 23 year old Zegras scoring 60 a year and being Mike Hoffman at -20 every season, than him developing into an all around hockey player with the hope that things click soon and he can take that next step. That is fine,l. But you are kinda willing to cap the ceiling if Zegras in my opinion. Whereas if you instill the work ethic early and they mature physically and mentally with a good foundation, I think that is a better recipe for long term success as a franchise.
Dr Johnny Fever
RIP Grizzly 399
If I understand you right that we are pretty much on the same page then it seems the question is whether anything Cronin is doing is getting through to any of these guys for the betterment of their careers. My fear is that other than Z playing some improved D I don't really see much leading me to think the other guys are figuring anything out.
Since Pat has decided to develop our best young players in the NHL (contrary to what he told us when he got here.) it's incredibly important we do it well. I say this in hindsight but if Pat wanted to develop these guys in the NHL, he should have hired somebody with experience doing that in the NHL. By Cronin's own admission he's been overwhelmed just learning the NHL himself. I'm fearful that this is a prime reason why the eye test isn't looking so good currently.
We're certainly in agreement as to the fact that time will tell.
It doesn’t matter how offensively creative you are winning puck battles is a very important part of the game. You can’t expect everyone to do the dirty work for you. While I think Cronin stinks and he hurts Zegras offensively this is not an instance where Cronin should be faulted. Zegras needed to improve in this facet of the game and at the end of the day it’ll actually end up leading to more offense. You don’t teach it later you teach it now.
Attacked you hahahaha. Holy playing victim. Don’t play the game if you can’t handle it.
It was too funny I had too. You are the classic dish it but can’t take it. Soft.
