Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

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Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
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Long Beach, CA
I don't know if I'd say Cam always has a guy in front of him blocking shots. I'd say Cam eventually has a guy blocking shots. Fowler has a ton of time on the blueline where he just kinda stays stagnant looking for a pass, eventually will either take a weak shot that goes into the goalies pads or into the d-mans skates and the play ends there. The isn't totally on Cam as the forwards need to get open too but I don't see the reluctance in switching things up.


Fowler had 2 powerplay goals all year, 18 powerplay points, was top 10 in powerplay shifts for d-man, he had 60 shot attempts and most of the possession on the ducks powerplay went through him. Basically what i'm getting at, his powerplay work isn't all that impressive when you consider the spot hes in. Minty had 7 powerplay points with 66 mins less than Fowler on the powerplay and not being in nearly as good as a spot as Fowler (always starting with the number 1 pp unit, always starting in the O zone, ect). I'm not even saying put Minty in that spot, hell put a forward with a hell of a shot on the blueline but I don't see the upside in keeping Fowler in that role. The powerplay has been terrible all 5 of those years and hes not really putting up big numbers. Hell Tony Deangelo has similar PP numbers in the past 3 years and he isn't even in the league anymore and was healthy scratched when he was.

I think it would be better to use others on the PP. Terry, Minty, Leo, McTavish, Zegras, Cutter, Zellweger should all be seeing regular powerplay time, no risk in playing those players in that role. Giving the youth chances to play in the opposing zone and put up numbers is exactly what you want for your young kids. Get them confidence for they can score at this level. Then you have Vatrano who put up 37 goals and Killorn who is making big bucks, to put up big numbers. I don't see where the need for Fowler is. We also have Lacombe who has an offensive upside that really hasn't been given a chance to show and we really have never given Lundy much of a go on the PP to see what we have. With all that in mind, I just don't see the point in keeping Fowler on the PP. Hes an old 32 (947 games played) and the Ducks need to get the youth going.

Fowler is a quality nhl player. I just don't see why the Ducks need to keep him. The argument that the d-core isn't strong enough to play his mins is fair but also by keeping Fowler you are guaranteeing that one of them is either scratched or sent to the AHL which has its own share of risks.
Correcting for 30+ games played to weed out statistical outliers, Fowler’s 2G is tied for 22nd. His 18 PPP is 18th. His PPP/60 is 24th. pP 1st Assists/60 of 3.16 is 14th. Goal/60 and 2nd assists/60 not so good (0.63/1.90). 2:21 TOI/G. PP shots/60 9.5 (57th)

Mintyukov averaged 1:56 TOI/G. 0 goals. 1stA/60 1.48, 2ndA/60 1.97. PP Shots/ 60 6.5.

Zellweger (only 26 games). 1:45 TOI/G.0 goals. 2.64 PPP/G. 1.32 1stA/60. 1.32 2ndA/60. PP Shots/60 11.9.

Both kids are objectively significantly less productive than Fowler, and Fowler was out there with Strome, Silfverberg, Vatrano, and whoever else was out there. The kids got Terry, McTavish, Zegras, Carlsson, etc. it’s pretty much impossible to say that Fowler had the stacked PP.

It won’t stay that way, the kids should be better, but there’s absolutely no statistic evidence that he’s the problem. Those numbers stack up just fine league wide (all numbers defenseman only).
 

CrazyDuck4u

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Oct 14, 2006
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People are upset Verbeek didn’t pick up a top 4D this offseason and then want to offload one just because.
Nah PV wants to unload Fowler because Fowler doesn't bring what we need. Aside from skating. He's not good at anything else now. Cant shoot. Can't defend. Got knocked out the puck to much. I feel for the guy. But it is what it is
 

Leonardo87

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It’s actually pretty funny from what I’ve read around the fan bases. Ducks fans want to take on Trouba and Rangers fans want to take on Fowler. You can’t make this shit up. Lol.

As a fan of both, Ducks fans should be happy to have Fowler and not Trouba. When both Lindholm and Manson were moved, all those mins including PK mins went to Fowler. Dude was breaking ice time records, and he is not a #1 D. He has been playing well over his head but the fact remains he is still a good D, but is not being utilized currently. Trouba just isn't very good at all.
 

WhatTheDuck

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May 17, 2007
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Ideally for now I think we need three steady, defense-first veteran defenders who can each play alongside one of the kids. Fowler has never been the perfect fit to take on the heaviest defensive responsibility on the back end, as it's just not playing to his strengths. However, he's still the most proven all around Dman we have, which makes this a bit of an awkward situation all around. On paper, it shouldn't make the team better to simply remove the most relied upon veteran Dman, but maybe giving his PP time to the kids and spreading the defensive responsibility more evenly among three balanced pairings - might actually be the best course for development and for Fowler himself? I can see both sides of the argument and think maybe some are a bit too dug in on being sure how that would turn out.

If you are moving Cam, I think the trade has to include some sort of veteran defender or you need to turn around and get one elsewhere. Dumoulin and Gudas would need one more proven defender to take some of the load. Pair each of them with a kid and go back to a more balanced 5on5 approach like back when we had the Stoner-Vatanen "third pair".

Dumoulin - Zellweger, Mintyukov - Gudas, Lacombe - _________.
(Vaak)

There's no first pairing there, but could be three good pairs who can all perform fairly well with roughly 14-18 mins of 5on5 on a given night. Obviously looking for a physical defender and PKer for that open spot. Then you should be only relying on the sturdiest of the three kids to play significant PK minutes. The three of them obviously make up your PP depth along with Luneau whenever he's up.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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It’s actually pretty funny from what I’ve read around the fan bases. Ducks fans want to take on Trouba and Rangers fans want to take on Fowler. You can’t make this shit up. Lol.

As a fan of both, Ducks fans should be happy to have Fowler and not Trouba. When both Lindholm and Manson were moved, all those mins including PK mins went to Fowler. Dude was breaking ice time records, and he is not a #1 D. He has been playing well over his head but the fact remains he is still a good D, but is not being utilized currently. Trouba just isn't very good at all.
Neither sounds good to me
 

CrazyDuck4u

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Oct 14, 2006
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It’s actually pretty funny from what I’ve read around the fan bases. Ducks fans want to take on Trouba and Rangers fans want to take on Fowler. You can’t make this shit up. Lol.

As a fan of both, Ducks fans should be happy to have Fowler and not Trouba. When both Lindholm and Manson were moved, all those mins including PK mins went to Fowler. Dude was breaking ice time records, and he is not a #1 D. He has been playing well over his head but the fact remains he is still a good D, but is not being utilized currently. Trouba just isn't very good at all.
Thats what broke him down.. Its not his fault.. Its just he is not a defensive stall-worth, and the ducks put him in a position to fail.. Suck but the dude deserves a chance at the cup and ducks owe him that..
 
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dracom

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Dec 22, 2015
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Absolutely
how can you say that, but then also say this
He's not good at anything else now. Cant shoot. Can't defend. Got knocked out the puck to much.
like i genuinely do not understand the people that talk about how awful Fowler is but then also say other teams should take him from us. why would a contending team want a 2nd pairing D that, as you stated; can't shoot, can't defend, gets knocked off the puck too much, just isn't good at anything but skating.
 

MMC

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May 11, 2014
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I both think the Fowler Hate Club is incredibly corny and also that we won’t really be competing over the course of his contract, nor will we have the space in the roster to re-sign him so if you can get a good return for him now I’m in favor of taking it.
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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I both think the Fowler Hate Club is incredibly corny and also that we won’t really be competing over the course of his contract, nor will we have the space in the roster to re-sign him so if you can get a good return for him now I’m in favor of taking it.

Which is essentially what everyone that is for moving him he said from the start.

He just doesn’t fit the long term plan

But then people come in and act like “wait till you see the team without Fowler” like we didn’t just draft top 3, 3 years in a row with him
 

cheesymc

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Not much info on what teams are on Fowlers list. I’ve only seen Detroit and Toronto.

I don’t like what Detroit has to offer unless Seider is asking for a change of scenery. Wouldn’t mind a Seider + Husso + Compher for Zegras + Gibson + Fowler with some other picks or prospects involved. That would solve our top priority for a RHD. But I can’t see it happening no matter how hard negotiations get with extending Mo.

I think it’s more hopeful for a trade with Toronto, but still low probability. They need better goalie but they continue to find cheaper solutions, but it sounds like they would be interested in Fowler. A site suggested something around Fowler at max retention + Leason for Lillegren + Robertson with some picks involved. I wouldn’t mind this trade even if our defense would continue to be very soft, but at least Lillegren is a tallented RHD and Robertson would be a fun offensive depth player with some upside. It would also prevent our incompetent coaches from not utilizing Minty and Zell on offensive opportunities.

If Fowler is traded for Holl and picks Verbeek has to be put on the spot on how he expects us compete for the playoffs or at least improve when he is making net negative moves…
 

CrazyDuck4u

Registered User
Oct 14, 2006
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how can you say that, but then also say this

like i genuinely do not understand the people that talk about how awful Fowler is but then also say other teams should take him from us. why would a contending team want a 2nd pairing D that, as you stated; can't shoot, can't defend, gets knocked off the puck too much, just isn't good at anything but skating.
Because on a contender he would have a partner that could cover for this weaknesses.. In my opinion hes an ideal # 3...
 

Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
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Long Beach, CA
Which is essentially what everyone that is for moving him he said from the start.

He just doesn’t fit the long term plan

But then people come in and act like “wait till you see the team without Fowler” like we didn’t just draft top 3, 3 years in a row with him
That’s the “good return” part of the equation.

Cap Dumps are not good returns. Picks that are irrelevant for 4-5 years at best, and statistically unlikely to even be an NHL player ever, are not good returns. Trades that set us back again into the bottom 3-5 are not good returns.

Some of us don’t want to be Buffalo.
 

dracom

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Dec 22, 2015
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Vancouver, WA
Which is essentially what everyone that is for moving him he said from the start.

He just doesn’t fit the long term plan

But then people come in and act like “wait till you see the team without Fowler” like we didn’t just draft top 3, 3 years in a row with him
he fits in the long term plan if you consider him taking the heavy minutes from the kids so they aren't rushed and can actually develop. i rather keep fowler for the next two years so the youth can properly develop into their roles instead of getting some picks and prospects that won't be making an impact for years if ever.

would like for our current guys to actually develop into their potential instead of rushing it, ruining it, and continuing to draft top 5 every year hoping that next top pick will "save us"
 

Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
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Long Beach, CA
Because on a contender he would have a partner that could cover for this weaknesses.. In my opinion hes an ideal # 3...
The flip side is then, since people want the kids to get the top pairing duties without Fowler, then give it to them anyway, and let Fowler be the middle pairing offensive specialist and PP guy. Fowler - Gudas would be an excellent middle pairing.
 
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Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
Jun 6, 2010
52,849
31,014
Long Beach, CA
he fits in the long term plan if you consider him taking the heavy minutes from the kids so they aren't rushed and can actually develop. i rather keep fowler for the next two years so the youth can properly develop into their roles instead of getting some picks and prospects that won't be making an impact for years if ever.

would like for our current guys to actually develop into their potential instead of rushing it, ruining it, and continuing to draft top 5 every year hoping that next top pick will "save us"
I think people overlook the value of the offensive/two-way guys having an accomplished player with a similar skill set to learn from. Zellweger wont be learning as much from Gudas as he would be from Fowler.
 

dracom

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Dec 22, 2015
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I think people overlook the value of the offensive/two-way guys having an accomplished player with a similar skill set to learn from. Zellweger wont be learning as much from Gudas as he would be from Fowler.
i feel like some people think Fowler's "softness" is gonna rub off on Minty and Zell if he stays on the roster lol
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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That’s the “good return” part of the equation.

Cap Dumps are not good returns. Picks that are irrelevant for 4-5 years at best, and statistically unlikely to even be an NHL player ever, are not good returns. Trades that set us back again into the bottom 3-5 are not good returns.

Some of us don’t want to be Buffalo.

What if we’re 3-5th pick with fowler for another year.

Cause he’s not helping keep us out of that range tbh
 

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