Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

Static

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Individual contributions don't mean a whole lot when you're contributing to historically bad powerplays. There are certain things that don't apply to the stat sheet that can make a powerplay poor. Holding on to the puck longer than you should, making poor passes and taking soft shots that go wide are not things most people take stats for. The fact that both Klingberg and Fowler appear on that certain stat of yours should tell you that its not the be all end all of the debate, considering both were on the Anaheim team that had a god awful powerplay.
It's a five year sample man, not just recent. Klingberg was an awesome pp dman in Dallas.

If you have a bad system, then you look at the parts making up that system to see what isn't working. If one of the parts is performing, then it would stand to reason to look at the other parts. Maybe people should focus on that.
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

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He likely holds onto the Ducks too long because his teammates don't move and the opposing team have passing lanes covered forcing him to shoot which isn't his strong suit, which is fine, Neidermayer didn't have a good shot either. Fowler is a roving PP D. He's not a trigger man.
The other team is covering the passing lanes because they know Cam Fowler can't shoot. Hes either going to shoot it right into the chest of the goalie or it'll almost hit the fan in the first row. There is zero risk to leaving Fowler open.
It's a five year sample man, not just recent. Klingberg was an awesome pp dman in Dallas.

If you have a bad system, then you look at the parts making up that system to see what isn't working. If one of the parts is performing, then it would stand to reason to look at the other parts. Maybe people should focus on that.
They have looked at the other parts of the system. Over the past 5 years they've had like 30 different pieces. Guys have been traded, waived, retired, went to play in Switzerland and the powerplay is still poor. Fowler isn't the only reason for the bad PP but I don't think its out of the question to find someone who can shoot a puck to be on the point of your top powerplay unit to at least make the opposing teams PK worry about a goal from the point.
 

FlyingV09

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The other team is covering the passing lanes because they know Cam Fowler can't shoot. Hes either going to shoot it right into the chest of the goalie or it'll almost hit the fan in the first row. There is zero risk to leaving Fowler open.

They have looked at the other parts of the system. Over the past 5 years they've had like 30 different pieces. Guys have been traded, waived, retired, went to play in Switzerland and the powerplay is still poor. Fowler isn't the only reason for the bad PP but I don't think its out of the question to find someone who can shoot a puck to be on the point of your top powerplay unit to at least make the opposing teams PK worry about a goal from the point.
Thank you for expanding on my point of Fowler not being a threat. You summed it up much better than I can.
 

CrazyDuck4u

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The other team is covering the passing lanes because they know Cam Fowler can't shoot. Hes either going to shoot it right into the chest of the goalie or it'll almost hit the fan in the first row. There is zero risk to leaving Fowler open.

They have looked at the other parts of the system. Over the past 5 years they've had like 30 different pieces. Guys have been traded, waived, retired, went to play in Switzerland and the powerplay is still poor. Fowler isn't the only reason for the bad PP but I don't think its out of the question to find someone who can shoot a puck to be on the point of your top powerplay unit to at least make the opposing teams PK worry about a goal from the point.
This!! This yes this!!
 

Goose of Reason

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The other team is covering the passing lanes because they know Cam Fowler can't shoot. Hes either going to shoot it right into the chest of the goalie or it'll almost hit the fan in the first row. There is zero risk to leaving Fowler open.

They have looked at the other parts of the system. Over the past 5 years they've had like 30 different pieces. Guys have been traded, waived, retired, went to play in Switzerland and the powerplay is still poor. Fowler isn't the only reason for the bad PP but I don't think its out of the question to find someone who can shoot a puck to be on the point of your top powerplay unit to at least make the opposing teams PK worry about a goal from the point.

I would argue that the fact that Cam always has a guy in front of him blocking his Shots is an indication that teams actually do respect the shot of a guy that puts up a good amount of PP goals. He doesn't have a booming shot but it's accurate, particularly his wrister.
 

Deuce22

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This isn’t a black and white, it’s gray IMO. Fowler does move the puck well on the PP and his wrister is decent when it gets through. Not having a strong shot from the point allows PK forwards to cheat back into the middle and clog things up. Also, PK forwards are unafraid to block his point shots. My frustration is that in a rebuild phase we are settling for icing a mid vet rather than accelerating the development of offensive D with much higher upsides as PP QB’s.
 

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This isn’t a black and white, it’s gray IMO. Fowler does move the puck well on the PP and his wrister is decent when it gets through. Not having a strong shot from the point allows PK forwards to cheat back into the middle and clog things up. Also, PK forwards are unafraid to block his point shots. My frustration is that in a rebuild phase we are settling for icing a mid vet rather than accelerating the development of offensive D with much higher upsides as PP QB’s.

Inb4 someone posts fowlers production, that no one cares about
 

Static

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Inb4 someone posts fowlers production, that no one cares about
Boxer-Punch-Himself-in-Head.gif
 

dracom

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This isn’t a black and white, it’s gray IMO. Fowler does move the puck well on the PP and his wrister is decent when it gets through. Not having a strong shot from the point allows PK forwards to cheat back into the middle and clog things up. Also, PK forwards are unafraid to block his point shots. My frustration is that in a rebuild phase we are settling for icing a mid vet rather than accelerating the development of offensive D with much higher upsides as PP QB’s.
are we accelerating the development or stunting it by giving them minutes they haven't earned? why rush fowler out the door instead of just doing the obvious thing and limiting his ice time and slowly give it to guys like Minty and Zell when they earned it?

people would rather throw fowler out the door even if meant risking the development of the young D they hope becomes better than fowler.
 

JAHV

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I'm somewhat in between here. On the one hand, I think Fowler is a solid defenseman. He's no longer the good 2D that he once was, but he could be a solid middle pairing defenseman who plays on the second PP and second PK. Unfortunately, on this team he needs to be bumped up.

However, we have some kids who have shown they're ready, and I'm all for seeing Mintyukov and Zellweger get more minutes this season. I don't want them playing 24 minutes every night, but I have no problem with them getting 20 and playing on the power play (and the PK in Mintyukov's case).

Fowler is still needed to keep the kids' minutes manageable, unless he's traded for another solid d-man. I'm ok with trading him as long as another vet is brought in to help manage the load a bit. I don't think Fowler (or a potential replacement) needs to be getting 25 minutes a night. But they should be in the 20-22 range. Then the kids can still get 20ish.
 

Deuce22

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are we accelerating the development or stunting it by giving them minutes they haven't earned? why rush fowler out the door instead of just doing the obvious thing and limiting his ice time and slowly give it to guys like Minty and Zell when they earned it?

people would rather throw fowler out the door even if meant risking the development of the young D they hope becomes better than fowler.
Because this coaching staff has shown its true colors. Giving excessive minutes to Fowler that could have been better dispersed. Young players won’t develop magically unless they are exposed to NHL conditions. Ducks are in a hard rebuild, they need to find out who the future is.
 
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Hockey Duckie

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By statistics, we know Fowler is an above average PP producer in the past five years.

DucksPP
SeasonPP CoachPPGPPOPP EffRankFowler PP ptsPP Comments
2019-20Morrison
27​
184​
14.67%​
30th
8​
4th on team
2020-21Morrison
11​
123​
8.94%​
31st (last)
9​
4th on team
2021-22Ward
48​
219​
21.92%​
14th
18​
1st on team
2022-23Brown
36​
229​
15.72%​
31st (2nd to last)
14​
2nd on team
2023-24Brown
43​
235​
18.30%​
23rd
18​
2nd on team

We see that the PP coach matters. In 2021-22, Fowler lead the team in PP points with 6g + 12a = 18 PP pts. He's been on a tear on the PP since assistant coach Geoff Ward got a hold of him.

Let's look more into 2021-22 PP.

2021-22PP Splits
Game SetGamesPPGPPOPP Eff
Total824821921.9%
1 to 3333239025.6%
34 to 6229198522.4%
63 to 822064413.6%

Prior to the Verbeekening TDL, the Ducks had a top-8/top-5 PP unit. In trading away LD Lindholm and RD Manson, Fowler was forced top pick up the heavy PK minutes as the PK1 pair. Also, the Ducks lost Rico just before the TDL to IR and Rico came back with a few games left in the season. Personnel mattered when the team dropped in PK Eff after the TDL.

It's difficult to "gift" PP minutes to the youth when they're not earning the spot to be on the PP1 unit. Until the youths can surpass Fowler, I think booting Fowler from the PP unit is a misuse and abuse to the PP team. The PK eff would have been far worse without Fowler for the past two seasons.

Hard slap shots vs softer slap shots. One has to be very accurate with the hard slapshot. With a soft slap shot, it's easier to be accurate, but the added benefit of a soft slap shot is the forwards in front of the net can detect it in order to redirect it. That gives the soft slap shot more opportunity to find itself in the back of the net.
 

Deuce22

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I'm somewhat in between here. On the one hand, I think Fowler is a solid defenseman. He's no longer the good 2D that he once was, but he could be a solid middle pairing defenseman who plays on the second PP and second PK. Unfortunately, on this team he needs to be bumped up.

However, we have some kids who have shown they're ready, and I'm all for seeing Mintyukov and Zellweger get more minutes this season. I don't want them playing 24 minutes every night, but I have no problem with them getting 20 and playing on the power play (and the PK in Mintyukov's case).

Fowler is still needed to keep the kids' minutes manageable, unless he's traded for another solid d-man. I'm ok with trading him as long as another vet is brought in to help manage the load a bit. I don't think Fowler (or a potential replacement) needs to be getting 25 minutes a night. But they should be in the 20-22 range. Then the kids can still get 20ish.
Agree with you in principle, but don’t trust the coaches to implement. This should have been done last season and wasn’t. Fowler got caved in playing huge minutes. I’m reading that young D need to “earn” more ice time, did Fowler’s play earn his?
 

Hockey Duckie

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Agree with you in principle, but don’t trust the coaches to implement. This should have been done last season and wasn’t. Fowler got caved in playing huge minutes. I’m reading that young D need to “earn” more ice time, did Fowler’s play earn his?

Yes, Fowler earned his time, especially when Drysdale fell to injury. Then Fowler was tasked playing with rookies. Fowler isn't in charge of the roster, Verbeek is in charge. Verbeek made Fowler into a 1st pairing d-man instead of being the usual 2nd pairing he was playing behind Lindholm. When Gudas was pushed into more minutes, he became fatigued very quickly. Gudas was a 3rd pairing d-man in Florida. This roster doesn't possess a top-pairing d-man and that isn't Fowler's fault.

The rookies all struggled in top-4 situation when they were pushed up. LaCombe adapted better as the season went. Minty and Zell struggled defensively in top-4 roles.

Ducks
PlayerGame setGamesGAPtsPPG+/-HitsBlocksComments
LaCombe49 to 71231780.3511244From Feb 19 to Apr 18
Minty41 to 63232790.39-92922from Feb 13 to Mar 30
Zell5 to 26222680.36-81033From Mar 1 to Apr 18
 

Ducks DVM

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In the last 5 years, Fowler is 13th overall in PP goals…with 14. Only 5 defensemen have 20+ in that span, and only 1 is 30+.

He’s 21st in overall shots, with a 10.1% shooting percentage, which is 32nd, or 13th if you remove the 19 players with better shooting percentages that have 33 shots or less over those 5 years.

Defensemen simply do not score the way people apparently think they do.
 

Deuce22

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Yes, Fowler earned his time, especially when Drysdale fell to injury. Then Fowler was tasked playing with rookies. Fowler isn't in charge of the roster, Verbeek is in charge. Verbeek made Fowler into a 1st pairing d-man instead of being the usual 2nd pairing he was playing behind Lindholm. When Gudas was pushed into more minutes, he became fatigued very quickly. Gudas was a 3rd pairing d-man in Florida. This roster doesn't possess a top-pairing d-man and that isn't Fowler's fault.

The rookies all struggled in top-4 situation when they were pushed up. LaCombe adapted better as the season went. Minty and Zell struggled defensively in top-4 roles.

Ducks
PlayerGame setGamesGAPtsPPG+/-HitsBlocksComments
LaCombe49 to 71231780.3511244From Feb 19 to Apr 18
Minty41 to 63232790.39-92922from Feb 13 to Mar 30
Zell5 to 26222680.36-81033From Mar 1 to Apr 18
The assumption is that LaCombe and Zellweger struggled when paired with Fowler. I notice that you posted their plus/minus but not Cam’s. Those pairings weren’t good, it wasn’t all because of the young guys.
 

Ducks DVM

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The assumption is that LaCombe and Zellweger struggled when paired with Fowler. I notice that you posted their plus/minus but not Cam’s. Those pairings weren’t good, it wasn’t all because of the young guys.
It’s because none of the three belong on a top pairing, and two of the three would have been better served on the bottom pairing.

Fowler has lost his super power of elevating 3rd line guys to an effective top pairing combination. Granted, Luke Dirk said, Ducks management has lost their superpower of finding the big physical guys that he combo’s well with.
 

JAHV

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Agree with you in principle, but don’t trust the coaches to implement. This should have been done last season and wasn’t. Fowler got caved in playing huge minutes. I’m reading that young D need to “earn” more ice time, did Fowler’s play earn his?
Yes, Fowler has earned his over a long career of good play. Also, very importantly, last year was all of the young kids' first seasons. They hadn't earned anything yet, and wanting to protect them was completely valid. But I think they showed that they're ready, and with another summer of physical development, I have no problem with a plan that involves getting them more playing time this season. But I don't think the protection plan last season was inappropriate, given the lack of experience (and age) for half of the defense.
 
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Ducks DVM

sowcufucakky
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Agree with you in principle, but don’t trust the coaches to implement. This should have been done last season and wasn’t. Fowler got caved in playing huge minutes. I’m reading that young D need to “earn” more ice time, did Fowler’s play earn his?
This is the exact opposite of what they’re doing. Fowler is being a sacrificial lamb so that the young guys didn’t get their confidence destroyed playing too far above their heads, and potentially ruin their careers.

Fowler didn’t “earn” that time. He was forced to endure it for the benefit of the team in future seasons, likely well after he’s gone.
 

Hamilton Bulldogs

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I would argue that the fact that Cam always has a guy in front of him blocking his Shots is an indication that teams actually do respect the shot of a guy that puts up a good amount of PP goals. He doesn't have a booming shot but it's accurate, particularly his wrister.
I don't know if I'd say Cam always has a guy in front of him blocking shots. I'd say Cam eventually has a guy blocking shots. Fowler has a ton of time on the blueline where he just kinda stays stagnant looking for a pass, eventually will either take a weak shot that goes into the goalies pads or into the d-mans skates and the play ends there. The isn't totally on Cam as the forwards need to get open too but I don't see the reluctance in switching things up.

In the last 5 years, Fowler is 13th overall in PP goals…with 14. Only 5 defensemen have 20+ in that span, and only 1 is 30+.

He’s 21st in overall shots, with a 10.1% shooting percentage, which is 32nd, or 13th if you remove the 19 players with better shooting percentages that have 33 shots or less over those 5 years.

Defensemen simply do not score the way people apparently think they do.
Fowler had 2 powerplay goals all year, 18 powerplay points, was top 10 in powerplay shifts for d-man, he had 60 shot attempts and most of the possession on the ducks powerplay went through him. Basically what i'm getting at, his powerplay work isn't all that impressive when you consider the spot hes in. Minty had 7 powerplay points with 66 mins less than Fowler on the powerplay and not being in nearly as good as a spot as Fowler (always starting with the number 1 pp unit, always starting in the O zone, ect). I'm not even saying put Minty in that spot, hell put a forward with a hell of a shot on the blueline but I don't see the upside in keeping Fowler in that role. The powerplay has been terrible all 5 of those years and hes not really putting up big numbers. Hell Tony Deangelo has similar PP numbers in the past 3 years and he isn't even in the league anymore and was healthy scratched when he was.

I think it would be better to use others on the PP. Terry, Minty, Leo, McTavish, Zegras, Cutter, Zellweger should all be seeing regular powerplay time, no risk in playing those players in that role. Giving the youth chances to play in the opposing zone and put up numbers is exactly what you want for your young kids. Get them confidence for they can score at this level. Then you have Vatrano who put up 37 goals and Killorn who is making big bucks, to put up big numbers. I don't see where the need for Fowler is. We also have Lacombe who has an offensive upside that really hasn't been given a chance to show and we really have never given Lundy much of a go on the PP to see what we have. With all that in mind, I just don't see the point in keeping Fowler on the PP. Hes an old 32 (947 games played) and the Ducks need to get the youth going.

Fowler is a quality nhl player. I just don't see why the Ducks need to keep him. The argument that the d-core isn't strong enough to play his mins is fair but also by keeping Fowler you are guaranteeing that one of them is either scratched or sent to the AHL which has its own share of risks.
 

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