Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season
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Foppa2118
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- Oct 3, 2003
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I agree in part. I agree that they didn't truly think Newhook would be their 2C. They only tried him there for a few games to start the season, before trying something else.
We have no proof, but I very strongly believe they did have a plan B, and that was a deadline deal. Maybe not a long term 2C option, but a stop gap move that would have bumped Compher back to 3C. Then something changed their mind. Either the market, injuries to their trade targets which there were a few, or injuries piling up on the team and likely making that move a waste of assets.
2C wasn't a long term weakness they needed to address before winning though. The Avs almost always had good center depth. 2C was only a weak point for about 3.5 years out of the last 15.
Kerfoot for a couple years when they weren't ready to contend yet anyway, and 1.5 years with Compher and co before trading for Mitts at the deadline. Aside from that they had good center depth, because the Avs are good at identifying skill forwards. Just can't expect them to have a good 2C every year long term.
2009>2013 - Duchene - Stastny - ROR
2013>2014 - Duchene - Stastny - ROR - MacKinnon
2015>2015 - MacKinnon - Duchene - ROR - Soderberg
2016>2017 - MacKinnon - Duchene - Soderberg - Mitchell
2017>2018 - MacKinnon - Kerfoot - Soderberg
2019>2022 - MacKinnon - Kadri - Compher
2023>2023 - MacKinnon - Compher - Eller
2024>2024 - MacKinnon - Mitts - Colton - Trenin
The area that was a weakness for a long time, that they needed to improve before winning, wasn't 2C, it was the D core. Added Girard in 2017. Added Makar in 2018. Added Toews and Byram in 2020. Then the final touch was getting harder to play against by adding Manson at the deadline of 2021-22.
And they're in a similar position as they were before IMO. Good center depth, but need to tweak the D core, to win again.
Ritchie+ for Nemec would certainly be very interesting. With them signing Pesce this summer and already having Dougie... Could be something to keep an eye on.
Toews - Makar
Girard - Nemec
Kylington - Manson
Could be a pretty beastly back end. But you would need Ritchie to have a really big year and Nemec to not dominate as well. Jiricek in Columbus might be another name to think about.
I honestly think our Forward group is still really, really strong.
Drouin/Mack/Mikko/Nuke/Mitts/Lehky is honestly a phenomenal Top 6. I have no doubt Nuke is going to still be a fantastic player, obviously all kinds of doubt with the off ice stuff. But when he plays, that's a hell of a Top 6 forward group.
Then you kind of have a potential luxury in Landy if he's still anywhere near the level of player he was before injury. I imagine a 3rd line of:
Landy - Colton - LOC
Would wreak havoc if you get Landy at like 85% of the player he was before.
The 4th line still needs work. But that's easy deadline work. And even still, you do have some interesting winger options at least. Wood, Kovalenko, Kiviranta, Kelly... All solid players. It's really just 4C that stands out in a bad way.
The defense is the area that needs the most work. I do like the overall depth of the group this year... But I'm not sure we have anybody that can step up into a Top 4 role if one of those guys goes down with an injury. That's where I think a Ritchie trade makes the most sense if he can really have a great year in the OHL.
Toews - Makar
Girard - Nemec
Kylington - Manson
Could be a pretty beastly back end. But you would need Ritchie to have a really big year and Nemec to not dominate as well. Jiricek in Columbus might be another name to think about.
I honestly think our Forward group is still really, really strong.
Drouin/Mack/Mikko/Nuke/Mitts/Lehky is honestly a phenomenal Top 6. I have no doubt Nuke is going to still be a fantastic player, obviously all kinds of doubt with the off ice stuff. But when he plays, that's a hell of a Top 6 forward group.
Then you kind of have a potential luxury in Landy if he's still anywhere near the level of player he was before injury. I imagine a 3rd line of:
Landy - Colton - LOC
Would wreak havoc if you get Landy at like 85% of the player he was before.
The 4th line still needs work. But that's easy deadline work. And even still, you do have some interesting winger options at least. Wood, Kovalenko, Kiviranta, Kelly... All solid players. It's really just 4C that stands out in a bad way.
The defense is the area that needs the most work. I do like the overall depth of the group this year... But I'm not sure we have anybody that can step up into a Top 4 role if one of those guys goes down with an injury. That's where I think a Ritchie trade makes the most sense if he can really have a great year in the OHL.
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Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
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$2.5M difference though. That's meaningful. If Kadri would have signed for $4.5M, he'd be wearing an Avs jersey.
The Avs build their teams by having certain roles they can't spend too much on, like 2C, 1G, and 4th liners. That's why they needed to sign Mitts short term, to keep his AAV down.
- Jul 27, 2021
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I think I have read everyone's stance on this board at least hundred times, but in case anyone wants a reminder of mine, I always thought the plan was to see whether having 4 difference makers as wings (plus MacKinnon) would be enough to carry the team. As it turns out, by the last games of the Seattle series, we only had 2 of those wingers in the lineup (a situation that we're facing again as we start this season), so the experiment was never properly tested. That being said, in retrospect, I do believe it's possible that I was undervaluing the importance of center depth.
John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
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You’re giving too much credit in terms of having a master plan. If you want clarity, just consider 2023 started with an 11M third line. Johnson declined the trade so the Avs were left with the results. No back up plan other than Compher/ Newhook. This was the vision. Oh. And also Landeskog was two years from returning yet the Avs took the cap hit that year.
Long vision planning? You’re giving a lot of credit.
- Jan 18, 2016
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If Kadri signed here it would've been for less than Calgary. Probably ~6milx8 if I had to guess. It all hinged on EJ going to Anaheim really.
But in the end prioritizing your 4/5D over your 2C was a major mistake that cost the team Byram in the long run.
GoNordiquesGo
Registered User
OK my dear contrarian, you are absolutely right and I am totally wrong. I'm baffled that I didn't realize it earlier. It should have been obvious to me that when the Avs didn't have a 2C last year, and you repeatedly mentioned that it wasn't that hard to acquire one, if I was to dare say that you mentioned at that time, in the context that the Avs should acquire a 2C, that a handful was being moved every year, it would be a voluntary, mischievious behavior on my part, akin to twisting words and attempting to change your statement. I obviously hurt your ego with this purposeful, savy maneuver and I apologize for it.
Ararana
Registered User
I've said it before but, I'm more surprised this front office actually managed to put together a cup winning team than I am how quickly they let it fall apart.
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
I had in my head that we decided to keep Nichushkin over Kadri and that was the choice? Seemed to make sense at the time to me. Nichushkin would be an integral part of the team if he could quit snorting shit up his nose. I might be wrong but that is the way I remembered it.
Chiarelli
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- Jan 27, 2019
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henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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Yup... and New Jersey has an excellent cap situation for the next 3 years. The only big name up for contract next year is Luke Hughes. Then in 2 seasons it is only Nemec and Markstrom (if they keep him at that time). the 3rd year they now have Hischier and Mercer come due... but drop off Palat and Dillon. They are very nicely structured moving forward. They have to take the step forward this year though.
That's...fine. The best way NJ can maximize the value of that deal though is to flip him for a decent return before it expires.
Eh...wouldn't go that far.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
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Has yet to miss a NHL game. 2 time 20g scorer (averaging 22 a season). Should be a 40+ point guy (2 40+ seasons) and has a 56 point season under his belt. About half of that in a 3rd line role. Wing and center versatility. Plays in all situations and is arguably their top PK guy (him or Haula). He wasn't amazing last year, but to date, he's had a fantastic start to his career.
Toothless Legend
Registered User
Ararana
Registered User
His value has peaked, trade him!
- Aug 25, 2006
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Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
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Keep Ritchie. Trade Cale.
Ararana
Registered User
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
Jumping in late on the cup window discussion a page back...
I think the Avs front office has a clearly defined window in their mind with the way we offered contracts over the past 4 years. It started when they signed Cale for 6 years instead of 8 to keep his salary low. That same off season they signed Landy to 8 years instead of less for same reason - to minimize his salary. When you look at most of our contracts signed since, if the player was younger, and it would take a larger salary to pin them down for a max term, then we offered fewer years to keep the money down. This was case for Lex, Colton, and Mitts. If we had a middle-age player who would take less money if we were willing to give them a long term contract, essentially paying them well for the back-half of their career, then we offered longer term to keep the salary low, such as Nuke, Mack, Wood, Toews, and soon to be Mikko.
For all the shorter term contracts, we tied most of them to end the same offseason - summer of 2027. Look at our list of UFAs due that summer: Cale, Mitts, Lex, Sammy, Colton. You could argue that most of those contracts were offered as a lower term in exchange for a lower salary. Most of that list will be due raises, with Cale and Mitts being budget busters. If team depth looks weak now, picture the 27-28 season. I just don't see Ritchie and Goulash making up for the expected loss of vet talent that year.
Whether the team's performance lived up to its roster's potential every year since we entered this window is certainly debatable. Well, except for 2022 of course. Whether we make it past another 2nd round of the playoffs in next few years, and does that mean the cup window already closed 2 years ago is also debatable. But whatever our opinions are, I think the front office made their intentions of the cup window known by setting up a cliff for the summer of 2027. We've got 3 runs left. Push all the chips in.
I think the Avs front office has a clearly defined window in their mind with the way we offered contracts over the past 4 years. It started when they signed Cale for 6 years instead of 8 to keep his salary low. That same off season they signed Landy to 8 years instead of less for same reason - to minimize his salary. When you look at most of our contracts signed since, if the player was younger, and it would take a larger salary to pin them down for a max term, then we offered fewer years to keep the money down. This was case for Lex, Colton, and Mitts. If we had a middle-age player who would take less money if we were willing to give them a long term contract, essentially paying them well for the back-half of their career, then we offered longer term to keep the salary low, such as Nuke, Mack, Wood, Toews, and soon to be Mikko.
For all the shorter term contracts, we tied most of them to end the same offseason - summer of 2027. Look at our list of UFAs due that summer: Cale, Mitts, Lex, Sammy, Colton. You could argue that most of those contracts were offered as a lower term in exchange for a lower salary. Most of that list will be due raises, with Cale and Mitts being budget busters. If team depth looks weak now, picture the 27-28 season. I just don't see Ritchie and Goulash making up for the expected loss of vet talent that year.
Whether the team's performance lived up to its roster's potential every year since we entered this window is certainly debatable. Well, except for 2022 of course. Whether we make it past another 2nd round of the playoffs in next few years, and does that mean the cup window already closed 2 years ago is also debatable. But whatever our opinions are, I think the front office made their intentions of the cup window known by setting up a cliff for the summer of 2027. We've got 3 runs left. Push all the chips in.
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
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