Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836828179173884188

 

[Foppa2118]

Yes, a Kadri re-sign would have been problematic on its own, obviously no one expected him to repeat his stellar career year and that deal would've aged like milk left outside. It just irritates me to no end that there was no Plan B whatsoever. They just threw up their hands and said "Eh, we'll just go with center-by-committee (again) and figure it out at the deadline," which of course they didn't.

And I don't believe for a second that the Avs truly believed Newhook would evolve into a viable #2 center. At least the coaches had to have known at that point. If management didn't, then they were either deluding themselves or are even worse at talent evaluation than I feared.

It's just stupid to me that the team won a Cup and followed up their title defense by failing to shore up the very weakness that, when addressed, directly led to their first championship in over 20 years.

Again, getting Manson was a great idea. Keeping him was not.

I agree in part. I agree that they didn't truly think Newhook would be their 2C. They only tried him there for a few games to start the season, before trying something else.

We have no proof, but I very strongly believe they did have a plan B, and that was a deadline deal. Maybe not a long term 2C option, but a stop gap move that would have bumped Compher back to 3C. Then something changed their mind. Either the market, injuries to their trade targets which there were a few, or injuries piling up on the team and likely making that move a waste of assets.

2C wasn't a long term weakness they needed to address before winning though. The Avs almost always had good center depth. 2C was only a weak point for about 3.5 years out of the last 15.

Kerfoot for a couple years when they weren't ready to contend yet anyway, and 1.5 years with Compher and co before trading for Mitts at the deadline. Aside from that they had good center depth, because the Avs are good at identifying skill forwards. Just can't expect them to have a good 2C every year long term.

2009>2013 - Duchene - Stastny - ROR
2013>2014 - Duchene - Stastny - ROR - MacKinnon
2015>2015 - MacKinnon - Duchene - ROR - Soderberg
2016>2017 - MacKinnon - Duchene - Soderberg - Mitchell
2017>2018 - MacKinnon - Kerfoot - Soderberg
2019>2022 - MacKinnon - Kadri - Compher
2023>2023 - MacKinnon - Compher - Eller
2024>2024 - MacKinnon - Mitts - Colton - Trenin

The area that was a weakness for a long time, that they needed to improve before winning, wasn't 2C, it was the D core. Added Girard in 2017. Added Makar in 2018. Added Toews and Byram in 2020. Then the final touch was getting harder to play against by adding Manson at the deadline of 2021-22.

And they're in a similar position as they were before IMO. Good center depth, but need to tweak the D core, to win again.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Ritchie+ for Nemec would certainly be very interesting. With them signing Pesce this summer and already having Dougie... Could be something to keep an eye on.


Toews - Makar
Girard - Nemec
Kylington - Manson



Could be a pretty beastly back end. But you would need Ritchie to have a really big year and Nemec to not dominate as well. Jiricek in Columbus might be another name to think about.


I honestly think our Forward group is still really, really strong.


Drouin/Mack/Mikko/Nuke/Mitts/Lehky is honestly a phenomenal Top 6. I have no doubt Nuke is going to still be a fantastic player, obviously all kinds of doubt with the off ice stuff. But when he plays, that's a hell of a Top 6 forward group.


Then you kind of have a potential luxury in Landy if he's still anywhere near the level of player he was before injury. I imagine a 3rd line of:

Landy - Colton - LOC

Would wreak havoc if you get Landy at like 85% of the player he was before.


The 4th line still needs work. But that's easy deadline work. And even still, you do have some interesting winger options at least. Wood, Kovalenko, Kiviranta, Kelly... All solid players. It's really just 4C that stands out in a bad way.



The defense is the area that needs the most work. I do like the overall depth of the group this year... But I'm not sure we have anybody that can step up into a Top 4 role if one of those guys goes down with an injury. That's where I think a Ritchie trade makes the most sense if he can really have a great year in the OHL.

 

[Foppa2118]

So signing Kadri would be a mistake because he’s older and past his prime. But signing Manson, who was 30 and had an extensive injury history made sense because he filled a certain role? I understand letting Kadri go, but for the same reasons people didn’t want to bring Kadri back is the close enough to the same reasoning Manson shouldn’t have been brought back.

$2.5M difference though. That's meaningful. If Kadri would have signed for $4.5M, he'd be wearing an Avs jersey.

The Avs build their teams by having certain roles they can't spend too much on, like 2C, 1G, and 4th liners. That's why they needed to sign Mitts short term, to keep his AAV down.

 

[MacKaRant]

I simultaneously can't believe but also can believe that we're re-litigating decisions made two off-seasons ago

 

[MacKaRant]

I simultaneously can't believe but also can believe that we're re-litigating decisions made two off-seasons ago

I think I have read everyone's stance on this board at least hundred times, but in case anyone wants a reminder of mine, I always thought the plan was to see whether having 4 difference makers as wings (plus MacKinnon) would be enough to carry the team. As it turns out, by the last games of the Seattle series, we only had 2 of those wingers in the lineup (a situation that we're facing again as we start this season), so the experiment was never properly tested. That being said, in retrospect, I do believe it's possible that I was undervaluing the importance of center depth.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I think I have read everyone's stance on this board at least hundred times, but in case anyone wants a reminder of mine, I always thought the plan was to see whether having 4 difference makers as wings (plus MacKinnon) would be enough to carry the team. As it turns out, by the last games of the Seattle series, we only had 2 of those wingers in the lineup (a situation that we're facing again as we start this season), so the experiment was never properly tested. That being said, in retrospect, I do believe it's possible that I was undervaluing the importance of center depth.

You’re giving too much credit in terms of having a master plan. If you want clarity, just consider 2023 started with an 11M third line. Johnson declined the trade so the Avs were left with the results. No back up plan other than Compher/ Newhook. This was the vision. Oh. And also Landeskog was two years from returning yet the Avs took the cap hit that year.

Long vision planning? You’re giving a lot of credit.

 

[The Abusement Park]

$2.5M difference though. That's meaningful. If Kadri would have signed for $4.5M, he'd be wearing an Avs jersey.

The Avs build their teams by having certain roles they can't spend too much on, like 2C, 1G, and 4th liners. That's why they needed to sign Mitts short term, to keep his AAV down.

If Kadri signed here it would've been for less than Calgary. Probably ~6milx8 if I had to guess. It all hinged on EJ going to Anaheim really.

But in the end prioritizing your 4/5D over your 2C was a major mistake that cost the team Byram in the long run.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

To me, taking a '1-2 or couple per year' and turning that into 'a handful per year' is changing the wording. In doing so, you're changing the wording and context. You're taking something I said rather specifically and changing it to something else that has a wider range. In doing so, you're attempting to change my previous statement and make that what I said instead of my more specific statement with context.

If there was not previous history here, no big deal. It happens. Memories aren't perfect and the internet is just not great with nuance. Move on. When it is a repeated pattern though, I just don't feel it should be overlooked. As the next time this comes around, it'll get stretched again and again, until the previous context and meaning are lost.

OK my dear contrarian, you are absolutely right and I am totally wrong. I'm baffled that I didn't realize it earlier. It should have been obvious to me that when the Avs didn't have a 2C last year, and you repeatedly mentioned that it wasn't that hard to acquire one, if I was to dare say that you mentioned at that time, in the context that the Avs should acquire a 2C, that a handful was being moved every year, it would be a voluntary, mischievious behavior on my part, akin to twisting words and attempting to change your statement. I obviously hurt your ego with this purposeful, savy maneuver and I apologize for it.

 

[Ararana]

You’re giving too much credit in terms of having a master plan. If you want clarity, just consider 2023 started with an 11M third line. Johnson declined the trade so the Avs were left with the results. No back up plan other than Compher/ Newhook. This was the vision. Oh. And also Landeskog was two years from returning yet the Avs took the cap hit that year.

Long vision planning? You’re giving a lot of credit.

I've said it before but, I'm more surprised this front office actually managed to put together a cup winning team than I am how quickly they let it fall apart.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837091582786343147

 

[5280]

I had in my head that we decided to keep Nichushkin over Kadri and that was the choice? Seemed to make sense at the time to me. Nichushkin would be an integral part of the team if he could quit snorting shit up his nose. I might be wrong but that is the way I remembered it.

 

[Chiarelli]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837091582786343147

steal

 

[henchman21]

steal

Yup... and New Jersey has an excellent cap situation for the next 3 years. The only big name up for contract next year is Luke Hughes. Then in 2 seasons it is only Nemec and Markstrom (if they keep him at that time). the 3rd year they now have Hischier and Mercer come due... but drop off Palat and Dillon. They are very nicely structured moving forward. They have to take the step forward this year though.

 

[Pokecheque]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837091582786343147

That's...fine. The best way NJ can maximize the value of that deal though is to flip him for a decent return before it expires.

steal

Eh...wouldn't go that far.

 

[henchman21]

Eh...wouldn't go that far.

Has yet to miss a NHL game. 2 time 20g scorer (averaging 22 a season). Should be a 40+ point guy (2 40+ seasons) and has a 56 point season under his belt. About half of that in a 3rd line role. Wing and center versatility. Plays in all situations and is arguably their top PK guy (him or Haula). He wasn't amazing last year, but to date, he's had a fantastic start to his career.

 

[Toothless Legend]

Sweet flow too...

 

[Ararana]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837207718181974311

His value has peaked, trade him!