2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[Brian39]

11.6 mil is QUITE steep for EP, but at 9-9.5? You could do way worse than Thomas and Pettersson as your top 2 centers. Not really sure what the Blues would give up, but I'd take the player if you can make it work with the cap structure moving forward. This will be a scenario where the team that acquires Pettersson is very happy with the player and what they gave up.

One thing that makes him so appealing to me even at his $11.6M number is that even as an overpay for the player, we would still be able to build a center group that provides damn good value against the cap.

Thomas is damn good value at $8.125M AAV for 6 years beyond this one. Combined, they would make $19.725M against the cap for 6 more seasons. Both guys would be just 26 years old entering year 1 of that 6 year timeline.

Dvorsky's ELC will slide if he plays fewer than 10 NHL games this year, which is likely (especially if we were to acquire EP during the season). But either way, he won't have arbitration eligibility and I'm pretty confident that we could settle on a fair 2 year bridge post-ELC whenever we have to deal with it. We'd have him on an ELC for 2 or 3 of that 6 year window and then a bridge for another 2-3 years of it.

Barring another league shutdown, the cap is going to be $100M+ by 2026/27 when it gets re-linked to HRR.

For the sake of this discussion, let's say EP were traded here and assume that EP doesn't return to his 95+ point form. Instead, he settles into a 1A/1B split with Thomas where EP can be reliably penciled in for a 70-80 points pace while remaining good enough defensively to take a good chunk of the defensive pressure off Thomas. Maybe he pops off for 85+ in one or two of the 7 seasons, but the norm is that 70-80 point pace. I'd consider him the '1B' to Thomas as the 1A in this scenario. That would not be worth $11.6M, even once the cap gets to $100M+. However, EP taking that role here would ease a hell of a lot of the weight that is currently on Thomas' shoulders and I think gives him a great chance to take that final step into the 90+ point guy I believe he is.

While EP wouldn't be 'worth' his $11.6M, you would have a damn good center duo for $19.725M against the cap.

Having those two as the 1-2 center punch would allow Dvorsky to ease into the NHL as a sheltered 3C. As he grows, you could slide him onto the wing in the top 6 for spells and give him PP time to boost his minutes. I have absolutely zero issue with young centers playing minutes on the wing. It wouldn't be difficult to get him 17+ minutes a night if he earns it. Let's say his bridge comes in at $7.275M AAV (starting in 2027/28 or 2028/29) against a cap that's $110M+. That's $27M on a damn good center trio, which would be less than 25% of your cap on the backbone of your team. And if Dvorsky busts, then thank God we didn't put all our chips on him to fill the 2C role.

I see pretty reasonable paths where EP is 'just' a 1B level center, but Thomas-EP-Dvorsky would give us a top 5-10 center situation in the NHL for half a decade while taking up 25% or less of the cap each of those years. And then there is also the potential upside that a change of scenery does EP well and he becomes the 1A with Thomas as the 1B. In that scenario, he would absolutely be worth his $11.6M AAV for the large majority of his time here and suddenly we have a no-doubt top 5 center group in the league for less than 25% of the cap.

My hesitancy around an EP trade is the acquisition cost and not the contract. While the $11.6M is a big number that he may never be 'worth' in a vacuum, I think that we are pretty well positioned to still get damn good value at the position if we were to take it on.

Edit: As I have said in the past, I wouldn't do Kyrou + Dvorsky. I'm happy to talk about Kyrou packaged with other assets, but Dvorsky is simply not on the table in a deal where Kyrou is the centerpiece. If that kills a deal then so be it. But I think Kyrou + Dvorsky is a much better package than what Buffalo got for Eichel and I don't think that Vancouver is in a substantially stronger bargaining position than Buffalo was.

 

[Spektre]

One thing that makes him so appealing to me even at his $11.6M number is that even as an overpay for the player, we would still be able to build a center group that provides damn good value against the cap.

Thomas is damn good value at $8.125M AAV for 6 years beyond this one. Combined, they would make $19.725M against the cap for 6 more seasons. Both guys would be just 26 years old entering year 1 of that 6 year timeline.

Dvorsky's ELC will slide if he plays fewer than 10 NHL games this year, which is likely (especially if we were to acquire EP during the season). But either way, he won't have arbitration eligibility and I'm pretty confident that we could settle on a fair 2 year bridge post-ELC whenever we have to deal with it. We'd have him on an ELC for 2 or 3 of that 6 year window and then a bridge for another 2-3 years of it.

Barring another league shutdown, the cap is going to be $100M+ by 2026/27 when it gets re-linked to HRR.

For the sake of this discussion, let's say EP were traded here and assume that EP doesn't return to his 95+ point form. Instead, he settles into a 1A/1B split with Thomas where EP can be reliably penciled in for a 70-80 points pace while remaining good enough defensively to take a good chunk of the defensive pressure off Thomas. Maybe he pops off for 85+ in one or two of the 7 seasons, but the norm is that 70-80 point pace. I'd consider him the '1B' to Thomas as the 1A in this scenario. That would not be worth $11.6M, even once the cap gets to $100M+. However, EP taking that role here would ease a hell of a lot of the weight that is currently on Thomas' shoulders and I think gives him a great chance to take that final step into the 90+ point guy I believe he is.

While EP wouldn't be 'worth' his $11.6M, you would have a damn good center duo for $19.725M against the cap.

Having those two as the 1-2 center punch would allow Dvorsky to ease into the NHL as a sheltered 3C. As he grows, you could slide him onto the wing in the top 6 for spells and give him PP time to boost his minutes. I have absolutely zero issue with young centers playing minutes on the wing. It wouldn't be difficult to get him 17+ minutes a night if he earns it. Let's say his bridge comes in at $7.275M AAV (starting in 2027/28 or 2028/29) against a cap that's $110M+. That's $27M on a damn good center trio, which would be less than 25% of your cap on the backbone of your team. And if Dvorsky busts, then thank God we didn't put all our chips on him to fill the 2C role.

I see pretty reasonable paths where EP is 'just' a 1B level center, but Thomas-EP-Dvorsky would give us a top 5-10 center situation in the NHL for half a decade while taking up 25% or less of the cap each of those years. And then there is also the potential upside that a change of scenery does EP well and he becomes the 1A with Thomas as the 1B. In that scenario, he would absolutely be worth his $11.6M AAV for the large majority of his time here and suddenly we have a no-doubt top 5 center group in the league for less than 25% of the cap.

My hesitancy around an EP trade is the acquisition cost and not the contract. While the $11.6M is a big number that he may never be 'worth' in a vacuum, I think that we are pretty well positioned to still get damn good value at the position if we were to take it on.

Edit: As I have said in the past, I wouldn't do Kyrou + Dvorsky. I'm happy to talk about Kyrou packaged with other assets, but Dvorsky is simply not on the table in a deal where Kyrou is the centerpiece. If that kills a deal then so be it. But I think Kyrou + Dvorsky is a much better package than what Buffalo got for Eichel and I don't think that Vancouver is in a substantially stronger bargaining position than Buffalo was.

My offer for EP would be Kyrou + Stenberg + Kessel + Joseph. Some pieces could change as long as the value remains the same.

 

[PocketNines]

I don't know how we keep Dvorsky out of a return package.

A future Alex Steen is tough to give up in a package. I'm more confident in Stenberg than Dvorsky personally.

But let's say somehow they do. What happens if Dvorsky outplays EP? What if Dvorsky is good in the playoffs when they return but EP shrivels? Now what? Are we comfortable saying: that'll never happen, as we sit here today? I think it's a risky time to make this decision. If EP were a nails playoff center which is what you need to win the Cup this aspiring contender probably wouldn't have him on the block. I'd rather throw a big dollar amount at RD when the time is ripe than do this.

I don't hate seeing Kyrou's name attached, but he is not the same player I couldn't stand who was a one way player also flawed in his good dimension (offensive plays constantly dying after the puck reached his stick). He has gotten good enough to be a plausible trade piece for another team. I would never pine for his absence. But I simply don't believe in "Vancouver is wrong! They're about to give up a marquee center who will help lead my team to competitive glory!"

 

[Brian39]

What happens if Dvorsky outplays EP?

Then we have a top 5-10 center group in the league. "Too many great centers" isn't a problem.

What if Dvorsky is good in the playoffs when they return but EP shrivels? Now what? Are we comfortable saying: that'll never happen, as we sit here today? I think it's a risky time to make this decision.

You can ask the same hypothetical about any player in the Blues organization.

EP had 7 goals and 18 points in 17 playoff games. No one on our team has a point per game (or better) playoff run under their belt

Other than the guys who haven't been to the playoffs, I don't believe the Blues have any player without a disappointing playoff on their resume. What happens if Thomas isn't actually any good in the playoffs? Or Kyrou? Should we trade them before their NTCs kick in to avoid that risk? Seems risky to lock into them without knowing the answer to that question.

If EP were a nails playoff center which is what you need to win the Cup this aspiring contender probably wouldn't have him on the block...But I simply don't believe in "Vancouver is wrong! They're about to give up a marquee center who will help lead my team to competitive glory!"

I don't remotely trust Vancouver's front office enough to substitute their valuation of a player for my own (or the Blues pro scouting department). Vancouver missed the playoffs for 3 straight years, made the playoffs last year, and are currently sitting out of playoff position again. Their President of Hockey Operations is 75 years old and their GM has never been an NHL GM before. They may view themselves as aspiring contenders, but I don't exactly view their front office as infallible decision-makers.

We correctly valued ROR more than Buffalo. Florida correctly valued Reinhart more than Buffalo. Colorado correctly valued Toews more than the Isles. Vegas correctly valued Eichel and Petro more than their previous teams. Teams misjudge their own players all the time. Especially when they are in the middle of a complete nosedive.

 

[PocketNines]

the insane 2020 covid playoffs to me are a huge outlier they are worth almost nothing to me, as huge swaths of guys were not at all in rhythm. I remember how EP played, he played against us and we were a faint shadow of the energy we had built up before the pause.

it's not at all persuasive evidence he could do it against an NHL field that's playing in rhythm

and thus the argument that he's a PPG playoff player and that's better than what we have is correspondingly super shaky, I am not going to agree to count that season

 

[BadgersandBlues]

the insane 2020 covid playoffs to me are a huge outlier they are worth almost nothing to me, as huge swaths of guys were not at all in rhythm. I remember how EP played, he played against us and we were a faint shadow of the energy we had built up before the pause.

it's not at all persuasive evidence he could do it against an NHL field that's playing in rhythm

and thus the argument that he's a PPG playoff player and that's better than what we have is correspondingly super shaky, I am not going to agree to count that season

Yea no one should really look at that as proof of anything - it was such a weird time. It's almost like the first post lockout season where Cheechoo put up 56 goals lol, you just kinda gotta throw some outliers aside once in awhile.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Any interest in Nemec? Lol

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Any interest in Nemec? Lol

Absolutely. lol

 

[Blanick]

Any interest in Nemec? Lol

A lot of Devils fans saying this is blown out proportion and that the quote was to a hypothetical question. However, isn't that how it all started with Jiricek before Columbus traded him? If I am the Blues I am all over this. I would easily trade our 1st this year +. Nemec> over anyone we could draft this year anyway.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

A lot of Devils fans saying this is blown out proportion and that the quote was to a hypothetical question. However, isn't that how it all started with Jiricek before Columbus traded him? If I am the Blues I am all over this. I would easily trade our 1st this year +. Nemec> over anyone we could draft this year anyway.

Agreed. Honestly. I keep thinking of 2025 1st, Bolduc, Buchinger, and another pick.

 

[Blanick]

Agreed. Honestly. I keep thinking of 2025 1st, Bolduc, Buchinger, and another pick.

In a heartbeat and I really like Bolduc. Roll this defense core in a few years.

Broberg - Nemec
Lindstein - Parayko
Fischer/Ralph - Jiricek

 

[bleedblue1223]

Assuming there are no major concerns with Nemec, go hard for him. Feels like something inevitable will happen there. They have Hamilton and Pesce signed long-term on the right, Kovacevic has been very good defensively for them and they are looking to extend him, and they even have Casey in the minors on the right.

I'd have to assume there are some amount of legitimate concerns, but the upside to too much to pass up IMO.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And Holloway breaking out like he has, makes me much more willing to be aggressive with other forward pieces.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Elias Pettersson and Simon Nemec to the Blues?!? I never thought my NHL 24 file-save would replicate life so well.

 

[TheOrganist]

I brought up Simon Nemec earlier this year....agreed that he would be a great target.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I brought up Simon Nemec earlier this year....agreed that he would be a great target.

Several peeps here have mentioned Nemec. I’m warming up to the idea of a Nemec acquisition.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

Several peeps here have mentioned Nemec. I’m warming up to the idea of a Nemec acquisition.

Tucker has looked good on his offside but balancing the D and getting a future stud RHD who can eventually push Faulk to the third pair would be great. Really think Bolduc will be great but the benefits to the D core could be transformative.

However, the third line is the real issue right now…..losing Bolduc makes that problem worse but third liners are easier to acquire in FA.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

View attachment 962666

Tucker has looked good on his offside but balancing the D and getting a future stud RHD who can eventually push Faulk to the third pair would be great. Really think Bolduc will be great but the benefits to the D core could be transformative.

However, the third line is the real issue right now…..losing Bolduc makes that problem worse but third liners are easier to acquire in FA.

I also think Bolduc is going to get pushed off the team by Stenberg when all is said and done.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

I also think Bolduc is going to get pushed off the team by Stenberg when all is said and done.

When’s the earliest Stenberg will be ready?

I was more thinking this year and next. I think Snuggy will get top six minutes out of the gate. DA/Steen don’t want him to not sign. Even if not I doubt they want two rookies on the third line together.

If Bolduc is gone next year who plays with Dovrsky? Right now it would just be Neighbors….but DA probably can figure that out in FA unless they keep Saad around to shepherd the third line.

If we actually got Nemec for the price above it would all be worth it imho.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Compensation for Nemec will be more in line with D. Jiricek. I think the HFOffers we’ve seen are inflated and somewhat of an overvaluation of Nemec.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I also think Bolduc is going to get pushed off the team by Stenberg when all is said and done.

Someone's certainly going to get pushed out. But I wouldn't really write off Bolduc by any means. He's on track with where Kyrou was in his first taste of action, he's actually pacing better per game than Kyrou did in his first stint. That being said, Bolduc doesn't have the game breaking speed that Kyrou has. But there's legitimate top 6 outcomes with Bolduc. He's only 21 and he possesses a high end shot, has some bite in his game and seems very competitive. His flaws right now are flaws that almost any young player comes into the league with. He definitely has to take the next step sure, but Stenberg still also has to take some steps that Bolduc has already.

Where I think you're right, is we're going to have an overabundance of middle 6 players who are young and most of them could probably benefit from more ice time making a move of one of them a bit easier. I thought Stenberg was a Steen replica when I watched him last year in the WJC, I don't think much has changed since then. But I definitely don't think Bolduc doesn't have the ability to be the same now after seeing him add physicality to his game and still produce with less than ideal circumstances.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I don't know how we keep Dvorsky out of a return package.

A future Alex Steen is tough to give up in a package. I'm more confident in Stenberg than Dvorsky personally.

But let's say somehow they do. What happens if Dvorsky outplays EP? What if Dvorsky is good in the playoffs when they return but EP shrivels? Now what? Are we comfortable saying: that'll never happen, as we sit here today? I think it's a risky time to make this decision. If EP were a nails playoff center which is what you need to win the Cup this aspiring contender probably wouldn't have him on the block. I'd rather throw a big dollar amount at RD when the time is ripe than do this.

I don't hate seeing Kyrou's name attached, but he is not the same player I couldn't stand who was a one way player also flawed in his good dimension (offensive plays constantly dying after the puck reached his stick). He has gotten good enough to be a plausible trade piece for another team. I would never pine for his absence. But I simply don't believe in "Vancouver is wrong! They're about to give up a marquee center who will help lead my team to competitive glory!"

I think as we're constructed, we'd hope that Thomas is the nails playoff center and that an EP or a 2nd line center could be more of the offensive focused player.

Just in my mind to get back to where we were when we won the cup, and I know that's not a perfect argument because we can't replicate the defense we really need to look at the 3rd line more than anything. Sunny just isn't up to speed to be productive enough to be a competitive 3rd line.

I think you can reasonably expect Thomas/Buch/Neighbors to give you what ROR/Perron/Sanford gave you. I think you can also expect as they've been playing lately, Holloway/Schenn/Kyrou to give you what Schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko gave you. I don't think any collection of the rest of our roster can give us what Maroon/Bozak and Thomas gave us. I think that Bolduc can give us what Thomas did at that point in time, but I don't think that Sunny/Texier/Joseph/whoever can give us the consistency that Maroon or Bozak gave us.

Defense is also a pretty big factor here. We need better play from Faulk consistently. I think if you're trying to compare for the sake that I am - as it currently stands (small sample size for sure) Fowler-Parayko is capable of giving more than Jbo-Parayko gave. I don't know if Faulk/Broberg can give us near what Pietro/Gunnar did.

Again, different times for sure, I'm not sure if you can confidently say that that 2019 group was a surefire bet to win the cup 50% of all outcomes, but they were good enough to win it that year. I don't know if they would be this year.

It's also hard to factor in how good Binner was when he came up throughout the rest of the season. BUt I'm pretty confident that Binner has the ability to push a team over the top come playoffs, and I don't think Hofer is that far behind him.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Multiple guys will get pushed out. Many of our fun prospect toys won’t even be here in five years.

 

[Xerloris]

Multiple guys will get pushed out. Many of our fun prospect toys won’t even be here in five years.

You better watch your mouth man!

 

[Brian39]

As much as I'd love to make a nice futures package for Nemec, New Jersey should be looking for immediate NHL roster help if they move him. Maybe we could put together a futures package with enough value to outbid other offers and then they flip some of those futures for that roster help. But realistically, I don't think a guy like Bolduc moves the needle for them a ton.

I think that any deal for Nemec would have to include either Neighbours or Holloway.

They don't have tons of cap space and all their 'bad' money that they might want to shed has full trade protection right now. Any roster player coming back in a Nemec trade needs to be more than a pure rental, so they are probably looking for young(ish) guys on below-market deals that are at least able to be a genuinely 'plus' middle 6 player. Neighbours and Holloway both fit that bill. I don't think you land a guy like Nemec without giving up something you really don't want to give up. I'm not eager to give up either of those guys, but I would have to strongly consider it if New Jersey covets one.

Personally, I think Holloway would be a great fit with New Jersey. He's got the skating to keep up with their elite players. A Holloway-Hughes-Bratt line could be an absolute nightmare to play against. I don't think that Neighbours is as good of a fit, but he's a guy that should be a quality middle 6 player for years to come.