2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[PocketNines]

I was at Game 1 and I remember Zucker? (I think) scoring about 3 mins into the first period on what should have been a harmless wrap around that Allen played so poorly…I remember thinking right then we’re F’d.

Oh absolutely, the idea that he just cost them Game 6 is not true. That goal to Zucker was truly brutal and the whole team felt it. Allen had that effect

 

[Xerloris]

What I am saying is if people think it’s reasonable to assume we will address our problems now, then why didn’t we address the major problem we had back then. And, why did it take so damn long? And why do we think it will happen now? And how long into this core will it take? Or will it take or preceding core before it happens like last time?

Is “we didn’t try” better than “we tied and failed”? It may different from the standpoint of effort but a failure is a failure. If you didn’t realize what you needed, you failed in your assessment and I’m not getting the player. If you tried and failed, you still didnt get the player. At least on the, we tried front, you can say we made an effort.

Regardless, we still wasted that core by not significantly improving it and the most glaring need was a #1C. We tried to do it by adding a second #2C, which really felt like much too little and obviously too late when it happened. We should have known by 2012 that we didn’t have high enough quality centers unless we think it was still time needed to give Berglund to morph into that guy. But, 2013 is the absolute latest I would push that date. We didn’t resolve the issue till 2018. So 5-6 years later.

As to whether the #1C would have been the silver bullet? Who knows. Probably depends on the center and what else we did. I do have a great degree of confidence that Backes would have been tremendous in a #2C roll. He was miscast for years. Our scoring in the playoffs was not adequate. Adding 1C would have helped our top 6 significantly from an offensive perspective and allowed us to deploy better matchups in the playoffs and better slot players in appropriate positions. Just adding that #1C takes those Backes teams from pretender to contender. Maybe not high probability contender but certainly better than the Cinderella hopes from back then.

Going back to the not addressing the gap, if we look at how we tried to plug that hole we see something similar with the one we have now. We said good players will be good enough. So in come Faulk and Krug. We add some bracing when we need a foundation pier.

I still am not even sure if we fully realize we need a top end #1D. I mean most of our fans do, but our last target was Sanheim, who to me is better suited as a #2 on a contender. Maybe that was the intent, but I don’t see anything on the top end #1D front. Regardless, here we sit 4 years later from that problem arising. We are still waiting. Now, if Army didn’t believe we have to be competitive nearly all the time to be viable, it wouldn’t be such a pressing issue. But the Blues want to rush through this as quickly as possible. So the onus is on building a contender quickly.

My question is how long will it take this time to address our main issue and will we try patching the hole with an inferior player once again or we pull off another ROR trade (which I really don’t think happens all that often for the level of defensemen we need). Will it happen in Thomas and Kyrou’s prime or will this be the Backes core again?

We need the 2017-2018 Army back. We don’t need all the rest of the time with the I only make hockey trades and the let’s stick with what we have and the let’s spend to the cap with a bunch of filler. Will we get that brilliant Army in the next two years or the underwhelming one who tinkers?

just imagine a #1C instead of Stastny.

No sense in spending on someone now that won't be in the right age range when we actually need them. You know, 2026 or 2027 when most of our kids are ready to start contributing.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

And the same summer we got Stastny, we were pushing for Spezza too. That might have made a difference for that core. Spezza with prime Tarasenko would've been nice.

I remember being super pissed off we let Dallas get Spezza. He was one of my favorites in his prime.

I also remember how insulted this board was when Tavares refused to give us a meeting. Then we acquired ROR shortly after, and the rest was history.

 

[Fez Whatley]

We need the 2017-2018 Army back. We don’t need all the rest of the time with the I only make hockey trades and the let’s stick with what we have and the let’s spend to the cap with a bunch of filler. Will we get that brilliant Army in the next two years or the underwhelming one who tinkers?

2017-18 army comes in and trades krug + snuggy + 1st for the coveted 1d. Are the blues instant contenders? I know some people here would lose their shit over that idea, since that 1d would be older and more expensive than the one we may have been able to draft.

Its obviously the biggest issue with the team, just as the 1c was in the Backes era. It's just that it isn't the only issue with the team. We're having our prospect poll right now and many are saying that it's a toss up between snuggy, bulduc, jiricek, lidstein and stenberg. That's AFTER dvorsky and before some others that could be gems. It's going to take time to see which pan out and which bust.

Who's even been available that he could target? I understand the concern with how he's left the d after 2019. I don't think anyone here has a favorable opinion of the current blues defense or the future (way too early to tell). But there are quite a few changes needed to be made to the whole roster in order to become legit contenders. And while we're getting familiar with the new faces arriving in the next few years, maybe another O'Reilly situation unfolds.

Just because the #1 area of importance has yet to be remedied, doesn't mean that you can't fix other weaknesses. The right situation just hasn't presented itself.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

The 2 goals he allowed in game 6 were the definition of back breakers and he deserves his share of the blame for us ultimately losing that series. But he also allowed 2 or fewer goals in 5 of the 6 games and had a .935 through game 4. The wheels came off at the end, but it isn't like he was a disaster all series while the team in front dominated.

We scored 4 total goals in the 4 losses (2, 0, 1, and 1). In game 1, we didn't score the 2nd goal until after Minnesota added an empty netter to make it 3-1 with about 1:15 left. We scored a very funny shorthanded goal with 1 minute left to make it 3-2, then they added another empty netter to hand Allen a 4-2 loss in a game where he allowed 2 goals.

You can't blame the goalie alone when every loss would have required him to allow 1 or fewer goals just to get to OT. Again, Allen very much deserved blame in that series, especially with the 2 he gave up in game 6. But that group went ice cold (except for Tarasenko) and wasn't looking poised for a deep run if Allen had outdueled Dubnyk and gotten them out of round 1. That team had the talent, but looked disjointed in that series beyond the goaltending.

I'll agree that he played somewhat well through games 2-4. G1 was terrible though. That Zucker goal still lives rent free in my head almost a decade later. You simply cannot give up a goal like that in the first three minutes of a playoff series. I would also argue that especially at the end, he DID have a team in front of him dominating. We put 68 shots on goal in the final two games and Minn put up 39. Allen blowing goats and Dubnyk making every save was the difference in that series.

 

[PocketNines]

The whole reason they were in the position to make the big trades of futures to get Schenn and ROR is they had a backend that was so dominant and stable it could get them to the playoffs year after year overall as the winningest regular season West team of the 2010s, and third winningest in the NHL behind Pitt and Washington, who also won Cups during the decade.

It should be even more glaring as we are discussing the relatively unpowerful centers how much it was the backend, spearheaded by one outstanding elite player, who provided the opportunity to make the move to go for it. Why do you guys think I had the exact moment Pietrangelo put on the Blues jersey for the first time as my avatar, from like 2011 onward? I pick significance. I knew what it was.

We can't make that futures move right now because we all know the result would be built on back end quicksand. But like, that is not something that Doug should be learning for the first time, how critical the support beam concept of a top notch defense is in hockey. I am an observant layman, if I know it, don't you think competitive GMs should know it? If you don't have it you can't win the 2-1 games. So you have to start there and add scoring. It is so much easier to do, in part because the pop of 22-25yo forward contribution can be significant without having a long runway to show itself first, so you can flint the tinder a little easier on a year by year basis if you are drafting well and pro scouting well.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

That Hitchcock interview when he reassured everyone Allen was just a young guy getting his feet under him and then he let in another soft goal immediately after and got pulled. Not a fun postseason.

 

[The Note]

That Minnesota series sucked even more because that was the first playoff series in a number of years I felt they should win and then they went and did that. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter because they would’ve just gotten waxed by Chicago in the next round, but those certainly were some frustrating times.

 

[TheOrganist]

Both 2015 and 2016 editions could’ve been Cup worthy with a 2019 level Binnington in net and better coaching (Hitch was definitely past his shelf life by that point and should’ve been fired after 2015 flameout). Both of those teams were really good on paper. Makes you appreciate what 50 did even more.

 

[PocketNines]

Both 2015 and 2016 editions could’ve been Cup worthy with a 2019 level Binnington in net and better coaching (Hitch was definitely past his shelf life by that point and should’ve been fired after 2015 flameout). Both of those teams were really good on paper. Makes you appreciate what 50 did even more.

The Blues were really stuck. They could not break their Allen habit. The concept of good money after bad? If that were a player it would have been Allen. I was in disbelief they had worked so hard to build this roster and they let it be destroyed by Slidey Boy.

The only way out was literally one single athlete refusing to be denied, and he didn't exist in our world. And then he emerged. I remember that Philly game. The whole energy changed that night. "Do we have an internal salvation?" To watch that unfold after years and years of needing it was one of the most special feelings I have ever had as a sports fan. "It's finally our turn for this thing that sometimes happens: the phenom who's blacked out to nervousness"

I will never not appreciate Binnington. I can't wait until he is the winningest goalie in franchise history. I will always be on his side. He gave us the experience we chased our entire lives

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Binnington could have a subpar regular season performance and I'd still feel confident with him in net for any playoff series. Stats be damned, he has 'it' when so many other goaltenders spend their whole careers trying to figure out how to avoid buckling under the pressure when the lights are their brightest.

I just hope we give him a couple more chances to shine before it's too late.

 

[stl76]

I really hope Binnington gets a chance to play for Canada at the upcoming Olympics. Would be so cool for his legacy.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Binnington could have a subpar regular season performance and I'd still feel confident with him in net for any playoff series. Stats be damned, he has 'it' when so many other goaltenders spend their whole careers trying to figure out how to avoid buckling under the pressure when the lights are their brightest.

I just hope we give him a couple more chances to shine before it's too late.

I really would have liked to see how the series with Colorado played out if Kadri didn’t fall on him. I don’t think the Blues would have lost that game, and Colorado’s 2nd round flame out history would have started tightening sphincters.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I really hope Binnington gets a chance to play for Canada at the upcoming Olympics. Would be so cool for his legacy.

Would also be the most comedic move given how many people absolutely loathe him.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

He likely will be the starter for Canada. They don’t have a better starter than him.

 

[mk80]

Both 2015 and 2016 editions could’ve been Cup worthy with a 2019 level Binnington in net and better coaching (Hitch was definitely past his shelf life by that point and should’ve been fired after 2015 flameout). Both of those teams were really good on paper. Makes you appreciate what 50 did even more.

An interesting question to consider is, do we think those teams would have had better playoff runs with Ben Bishop in net who we traded away because we had Allen ahead of him.

2015 he backstopped the Lightning to the Stanley Cup Final vs Chicago (games 2-6 playing with a torn groin), and was a Vezina candidate in both 2014 and 2016.

Could he have been our Binnington back then?

 

[TheOrganist]

An interesting question to consider is, do we think those teams would have had better playoff runs with Ben Bishop in net who we traded away because we had Allen ahead of him.

2015 he backstopped the Lightning to the Stanley Cup Final vs Chicago (games 2-6 playing with a torn groin), and was a Vezina candidate in both 2014 and 2016.

Could he have been our Binnington back then?

I don’t see why not from a talent/performance perspective but he obviously had some major durability issues during his peak years.

 

[HighNote]

Bishop was absolutely lights out in that game 7. He had a .981 SV% through 4+ periods before Maroon tapped it in.

I remember we were flying that entire game, really controlling the play. That continued into overtime and I was really worried that we might start running out of gas. It felt like the play was slowly leaning in favor of Dallas, then Benn just about sealed it on that wraparound a minute before Maroon scored. I think if that game had gone on much longer, Dallas would have won.

I still think that was the toughest series in the run, mostly due to Bishop and that Dallas defense. They were likely the strongest team defensively speaking in the entire playoffs.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Bishop was absolutely lights out in that game 7. He had a .981 SV% through 4+ periods before Maroon tapped it in.

I remember we were flying that entire game, really controlling the play. That continued into overtime and I was really worried that we might start running out of gas. It felt like the play was slowly leaning in favor of Dallas, then Benn just about sealed it on that wraparound a minute before Maroon scored. I think if that game had gone on much longer, Dallas would have won.

I still think that was the toughest series in the run, mostly due to Bishop and that Dallas defense. They were likely the strongest team defensively speaking in the entire playoffs.

Bishop went toe to toe with Binnington. He really deserved to win that game, but that's how the post-season is. Two players digging deep to find their very best.

Dallas was fortunate to get that game to OT, but after that it could have gone either way. It was nice to feel like it was the Blues' year. FINALLY.

 

[Reality Czech]

An interesting question to consider is, do we think those teams would have had better playoff runs with Ben Bishop in net who we traded away because we had Allen ahead of him.

2015 he backstopped the Lightning to the Stanley Cup Final vs Chicago (games 2-6 playing with a torn groin), and was a Vezina candidate in both 2014 and 2016.

Could he have been our Binnington back then?

Obviously a tough question that can't be proven either way. I'll always maintain that a hot goalie alone can't win a Cup, although it can surely help. The team in front of them needs to be firing on all cylinders as well and from what I can recall the Blues never really got consistent and balanced scoring most of the years we lost. We did well at holding teams to 2-3 goals per game, but had a hard time getting 3+ goals ourselves. That being said, I'd think our chances with Bishop would have been slightly better at least since he was the superior goalie.

 

[The Note]

An interesting question to consider is, do we think those teams would have had better playoff runs with Ben Bishop in net who we traded away because we had Allen ahead of him.

2015 he backstopped the Lightning to the Stanley Cup Final vs Chicago (games 2-6 playing with a torn groin), and was a Vezina candidate in both 2014 and 2016.

Could he have been our Binnington back then?

I guess there’s really no way of knowing but my initial reaction is that it probably wouldn’t have mattered much. The simple fact is that those teams just weren’t at the level of Chicago or LA and they still would’ve flamed out. They just weren’t talented enough, particularly at forward, to compete with those teams. Maybe Bishop steals a game that Allen, et. all didn’t but I don’t think the Blues fate would’ve been different during those years.

 

[PocketNines]

the 2013 series is still just about the most competitive and intense series I have ever seen, even though they lost. they could have done something for sure for four consecutive years. in 2012 they were not deep enough, as LA decided to use a 4th liner to successfully attack the top Blues player and that was it.but 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 were all years when they were legit contenders IMO. Hitchcock blaming Elliott for 2013 was reprehensible and stunningly pathetic, what a stupid coach he was

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Soooooooooo, Alexandrov didn't accept his QO? It's expired now. I wonder what his plan is.

It could be that they've already negotiated another contract and are waiting until tomorrow to announce it.

 

[Beauterham]

Soooooooooo, Alexandrov didn't accept his QO? It's expired now. I wonder what his plan is.

It could be that they've already negotiated another contract and are waiting until tomorrow to announce it.

I wonder if he's planning to go to Europe and the Blues only qualified him to retain his rights, like we did with Abramov.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

There is a shoot-the-moon possibility now that Lindstein-Jiricek is the future top pair and moreover that it's elite enough in what, 4 years? with Parayko and Kessel to bring the Blues back to contending. It probably requires Dvorsky to be a real backbone top six center with Thomas.

But there's no backup plan (besides indefinitely sucking) if they don't pan out

It's a flimsy vision and I don't trust the messenger to be honest about it

We would need the equivalent of moves like the Schenn, O’Reilly and Bouwmeester trades to supplement the core you describe. Last time it was to obtain a 1C and the 1D was homegrown. Maybe next time we have a homegrown 1C and have to acquire the 1D.

I agree it’s hard to visualize the team’s evolution with moves like that, but it’s intellectually dishonest to pretend moves like that not part of the plan.

Edit - I think my phone took me to an old message rather than new posts. Apologies for responding to an old message if true.