BadgersandBlues
Registered User
- Jun 6, 2011
- 1,842
- 1,324
Cool vid I found of Elliott working with the goalies a bit at Development camp, thought I'd share:
Cool vid I found of Elliott working with the goalies a bit at Development camp, thought I'd share:
We wasted an entire core trying to find that #1C. Maybe people forget that part. And when we finally got one it only lasted a couple years. Thankfully we got to the promised land in that small window.
So we can believe we will find core pieces for this core but it wasn’t reasonable to expect that for that one?The reason that core was wasted is because that was the core. You were never going to win if that was your core. They were great players but that can't be your core if you want to win a cup.
When was that core only a 1c away from contending? They also had Jackman, polak, Elliot, berglund, lehtera, CPR line, mps, etc. They were not just a 1c away from a cup. The '19 blues were slowly built and improved on post Backes core. Parayko, Dunn, eddy, sunny, barbie, etc were not good enough during Backes time on the blues. That crazy deep cup winning team had really only two weaknesses keeping them from winning it all : 1c (O'Reilly) and goalie (WINNINGTON).The Backes core could never get over the hump largely due to the lack of 1C and scoring. It took going through that whole core and moving onto the next before we ever solved that 1C problem.
Just in case any of you were planning to come up to Chicago in October to catch a Blues game, you'll have to travel a bit further north.
I'm actually really pumped about this, got a lot of friends in MKE and gives me a great reason for a visit
This core has high end skill where as Backes, Oshie and Steen did not. Also, they were all slow.So we can believe we will find core pieces for this core but it wasn’t reasonable to expect that for that one?
Cool vid I found of Elliott working with the goalies a bit at Development camp, thought I'd share:
I'm trying to pick out the 7 footer but I don't see ya.I’ve actually got a cameo in that video (in the stands) around the 2:41 mark.
Well I'm sitting down, so that makes it a little tougher.I'm trying to pick out the 7 footer but I don't see ya.![]()
I don't believe you, that looks nothing like your Profile Avatar
So we can believe we will find core pieces for this core but it wasn’t reasonable to expect that for that one?
Just in case any of you were planning to come up to Chicago in October to catch a Blues game, you'll have to travel a bit further north.
Edit: Preseason, not regular season.
Man that team in 2014/2015 was so much better then people realize imo - if Allen hadn't shat the bed I think we may have gone pretty deep. We finally looked like we had a legit top 6 in Backes/Stastny/Steen/Oshie/Taraskeno/Schwartz. Then on the back end we had AP/Shatty/JBow/Jackman as our top 4. Honestly really not bad.No, people are saying that we didn't go out and acquire core pieces in an area of need, not that it would have been unreasonable to do so.
The conversation here was about turning surplus futures assets into established players of positional need. That's what we did in 2017 and 2018 during our '1 step back for 2 steps forward retool' to get Schenn and ROR (plus UFA Bozak) to rebuild the center group.
Prior to that, we did almost nothing to supplement our core with top of the lineup players in areas of positional need.
We didn't do anything to try and find better centers to support that core from 2010/11 through 2013/14 beyond simply developing from within. Our centers in 2010/11 were a 26 year old Backes, a 22 year old Bergie, a 27 year old McClement, a 23 year old Sobotka, and a 33 year old MacDonald. The following year, McClement was gone, MacDonald only played 25 games and we replaced them with a 37 year old Arnott and a 37 year old Nichol. No new centers were brought in for 2013. In 2013/14, we brought in Lapierre, Roy, and Ott to play center in the bottom of the lineup.
That's a 4 year window where we said "this center core plus time is good enough." We were very much not trying to find core pieces at the center position. Any 'wasted' time was based on incorrectly assessing our own young centers, not on the fact that we brought in inadequate replacements.
I think we all agree that doing nothing to our D group for several more years is not going to build a good enough group. No one here is advocating to apply the 2010 through 2014 center plan to the current D group.
By 2014, it became clear that we needed more/better centers and we actually started addressing it. We signed Stastny and made 2 runs with Backes/Stastny down the middle. We won the central in year 1 and lost to the Wild in round 1 in a series where Allen was widely blamed. We got to the Conference Final the next season. The group fell short, but it was a pretty damn good team.
Then we let Backes walk in the summer of 2016 and Shatty is moved mid-season in 2016/17. Army starts describing the process as a 'step back to take 2 steps forward' retool. We flip futures for Schenn in 2017, flip Stastny at the deadline in 2017/18 and then flip more futures for ROR in the summer of 2018. We also signed Bozak the same day. Center group fixed.
Schenn was the very first time we attempted to address the center group by trading futures for an established player in his mid 20s. 13 months later the center group was fixed. Any wasted core was the result of not actively trying to bring in replacements that matched a young/growing core's timeframe. "We didn't try to do it" is a hell of a lot different than "we tried and failed to do it."
The 2 goals he allowed in game 6 were the definition of back breakers and he deserves his share of the blame for us ultimately losing that series. But he also allowed 2 or fewer goals in 5 of the 6 games and had a .935 through game 4. The wheels came off at the end, but it isn't like he was a disaster all series while the team in front dominated.Man that team in 2014/2015 was so much better then people realize imo - if Allen hadn't shat the bed I think we may have gone pretty deep. We finally looked like we had a legit top 6 in Backes/Stastny/Steen/Oshie/Taraskeno/Schwartz. Then on the back end we had AP/Shatty/JBow/Jackman as our top 4. Honestly really not bad.
You can't blame the goalie alone when every loss would have required him to allow 1 or fewer goals just to get to OT. Again, Allen very much deserved blame in that series, especially with the 2 he gave up in game 6. But that group went ice cold (except for Tarasenko) and wasn't looking poised for a deep run if Allen had outdueled Dubnyk and gotten them out of round 1. That team had the talent, but looked disjointed in that series beyond the goaltending.
What I am saying is if people think it’s reasonable to assume we will address our problems now, then why didn’t we address the major problem we had back then. And, why did it take so damn long? And why do we think it will happen now? And how long into this core will it take? Or will it take or preceding core before it happens like last time?No, people are saying that we didn't go out and acquire core pieces in an area of need, not that it would have been unreasonable to do so.
The conversation here was about turning surplus futures assets into established players of positional need. That's what we did in 2017 and 2018 during our '1 step back for 2 steps forward retool' to get Schenn and ROR (plus UFA Bozak) to rebuild the center group.
Prior to that, we did almost nothing to supplement our core with top of the lineup players in areas of positional need.
We didn't do anything to try and find better centers to support that core from 2010/11 through 2013/14 beyond simply developing from within. Our centers in 2010/11 were a 26 year old Backes, a 22 year old Bergie, a 27 year old McClement, a 23 year old Sobotka, and a 33 year old MacDonald. The following year, McClement was gone, MacDonald only played 25 games and we replaced them with a 37 year old Arnott and a 37 year old Nichol. No new centers were brought in for 2013. In 2013/14, we brought in Lapierre, Roy, and Ott to play center in the bottom of the lineup.
That's a 4 year window where we said "this center core plus time is good enough." We were very much not trying to find core pieces at the center position. Any 'wasted' time was based on incorrectly assessing our own young centers, not on the fact that we brought in inadequate replacements.
I think we all agree that doing nothing to our D group for several more years is not going to build a good enough group. No one here is advocating to apply the 2010 through 2014 center plan to the current D group.
By 2014, it became clear that we needed more/better centers and we actually started addressing it. We signed Stastny and made 2 runs with Backes/Stastny down the middle. We won the central in year 1 and lost to the Wild in round 1 in a series where Allen was widely blamed. We got to the Conference Final the next season. The group fell short, but it was a pretty damn good team.
Then we let Backes walk in the summer of 2016 and Shatty is moved mid-season in 2016/17. Army starts describing the process as a 'step back to take 2 steps forward' retool. We flip futures for Schenn in 2017, flip Stastny at the deadline in 2017/18 and then flip more futures for ROR in the summer of 2018. We also signed Bozak the same day. Center group fixed.
Schenn was the very first time we attempted to address the center group by trading futures for an established player in his mid 20s. 13 months later the center group was fixed. Any wasted core was the result of not actively trying to bring in replacements that matched a young/growing core's timeframe. "We didn't try to do it" is a hell of a lot different than "we tried and failed to do it."
just imagine a #1C instead of Stastny.Man that team in 2014/2015 was so much better then people realize imo - if Allen hadn't shat the bed I think we may have gone pretty deep. We finally looked like we had a legit top 6 in Backes/Stastny/Steen/Oshie/Taraskeno/Schwartz. Then on the back end we had AP/Shatty/JBow/Jackman as our top 4. Honestly really not bad.
I was at Game 1 and I remember Zucker? (I think) scoring about 3 mins into the first period on what should have been a harmless wrap around that Allen played so poorly…I remember thinking right then we’re F’d.You can blame the goalie when the goals they give up are absolute bullshit. Not saying every goal in that series he let in was that but he sure did kill our momentum many times.
It may very well be a blessing given who we targeted.Can't remember all the old C targets, but we luckily failed on Weiss.