2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[Xerloris]

I know Army isn’t going to lay out every detail of this plan.

Next season will be the 3rd year of missing the playoffs. It’s not a giant leap of speculation to imagine that outcome.

We don’t know yet how many prospects will get significant playing time this season. As currently constructed, I don’t see both Dean and Bolduc getting big minutes. I’m hoping Bolduc does but we’ll see.

Even if all goes well with development, I don’t see how they’re contenders for 4-5 years.

I think it's entirely possible and dare I even say likely we make the playoffs this year. Last year our bottom 6 was the biggest weakness of the team, we basically only had 2 lines that could do anything and we significantly improved that area of weakness. Sure they weren't flashy moves but we got hard working fast players that have more skill than last years bottom 6.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We were very lucky with injuries last season. We didn't have to dip to our 3rd or 4th goalie. Our top pair played the entire season. Thomas and Kyrou played the entire season, with Buch missing 2 games. The only main contributor that missed significant time was Faulk. I think it's a safe bet that we won't have that type of luck again.

2023/24 team injury breakdowns

 

[High n Wide]

Will Faksa be worth a 2nd? Or even a third for that matter? I mean he was just given away for free and looks to be a player in decline.

Even if we do manage to grab a 2nd it’ll be from a contender at the TDL so will obviously be a worse pick than we gave up with Hayes. I don’t get the impression that we brought in Faksa with an eye towards recouping picks, but maybe we can still grab something small as a consolation.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Even if we do manage to grab a 2nd it’ll be from a contender at the TDL so will obviously be a worse pick than we gave up with Hayes. I don’t get the impression that we brought in Faksa with an eye towards recouping picks, but maybe we can still grab something small as a consolation.

I think Army made the decision that Joseph + Faksa + 2nd + Faksa deadline pick is worth more than Hayes + 2nd + future hope that Hayes gains trade value.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I think it's entirely possible and dare I even say likely we make the playoffs this year. Last year our bottom 6 was the biggest weakness of the team, we basically only had 2 lines that could do anything and we significantly improved that area of weakness. Sure they weren't flashy moves but we got hard working fast players that have more skill than last years bottom 6.

Certainly possible.

But we also got top-5 league-wide goaltending and were ridiculously healthy last season. If either or both of those things regress to the mean, a slightly improved bottom-6 might not matter much.

 

[High n Wide]

I think Army made the decision that Joseph + Faksa + 2nd + Faksa deadline pick is worth more than Hayes + 2nd + future hope that Hayes gains trade value.

Yeah, I agree that that’s the big picture rationale behind the moves. I don’t agree with the valuation, but I don’t know anything about the guys in the room and there was clearly something going on behind the scenes with Hayes that seemed to make a move more urgent.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I understood the logic with Hayes. He just scored 54 points, he scored at a 51 point pace in Philly, on paper he made sense as a cheap 2nd line center. In reality, he was a terrible fit.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I understood the logic with Hayes. He just scored 54 points, he scored at a 51 point pace in Philly, on paper he made sense as a cheap 2nd line center. In reality, he was a terrible fit.

Hayes ended up being a Terrible fit at the same time as Schenn ended up falling off by 20 points and having the worst defensive play of his career. Those two were locks going into the season at our #2 and #3 Centers and then both ended up being completely ineffective. It ended up with a Team where it was a one line team because no other Center was able to be effective offensively or defensively.

 

[High n Wide]

I understood the logic with Hayes. He just scored 54 points, he scored at a 51 point pace in Philly, on paper he made sense as a cheap 2nd line center. In reality, he was a terrible fit.

Sure, but if it’s just a matter of being a bad fit, why couldn’t we just stomach it for the two remaining years in what are supposed to be down years anyways? Even if the front office thinks we’ll be competitive this season, is it worth throwing away a high round pick to get rid of him?

I think you’re right in that it looks a bit better as part of a larger scheme, but if there wasn’t any other reason to move on from Hayes then I would go back to that I just don’t agree with the values Army placed on each piece in that equation.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Certainly possible.

But we also got top-5 league-wide goaltending and were ridiculously healthy last season. If either or both of those things regress to the mean, a slightly improved bottom-6 might not matter much.

Exactly. Lets say Thomas or Parayko get hurt for even 10-15 games, that's going to give us a pretty brutal stretch. If Binnington or Hofer don't perform at the same level, we are looking at significant regression. If there's a combo of any of that where we can't lean on our top pair or our top line to carry us through the season, then we are truly screwed.

And honestly, I don't think it would be the worst outcome. I'm hoping for 1 more big draft in the form of a top 10 or better pick and then start pushing to make the NHL roster better.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know Army isn’t going to lay out every detail of this plan.

Next season will be the 3rd year of missing the playoffs. It’s not a giant leap of speculation to imagine that outcome.

We don’t know yet how many prospects will get significant playing time this season. As currently constructed, I don’t see both Dean and Bolduc getting big minutes. I’m hoping Bolduc does but we’ll see.

Even if all goes well with development, I don’t see how they’re contenders for 4-5 years.

I think Bolduc will be given every opportunity to get top 9 minutes. As for Dean, I think we are overhyping his readiness. He's "ready" for 4th line minutes simply because he's not ready for top 9 minutes and we want to see him at the NHL level. Lets have him build on how he finished the AHL season, especially with how Springfield will have much more of a youth focus this season.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think Army made the decision that Joseph + Faksa + 2nd + Faksa deadline pick is worth more than Hayes + 2nd + future hope that Hayes gains trade value.

Could we not have found bottom 6 players in FA?

Why not wait out the Hayes mistake? Whats the rush? What’s the risk? We are mediocre vs mediocre either way.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Could we not have found bottom 6 players in FA?

Why not wait out the Hayes mistake? Whats the rush? What’s the risk? We are mediocre vs mediocre either way.

For 1 or 2 years term? I don't think we could. Since we didn't give up anything for Joseph or Faksa, I'd say they were the better options.

I'm guessing there were other off-ice considerations with Hayes. I don't love what we gave up to get rid of him, the 3rd with Joseph made it easier to swallow, obviously Hayes was a bad target in the first place, and you should just target cap dumps with short term remaining. What's done is done though. I don't think the downgrade from our 2nd to Ottawa's 3rd is going to make or break our rebuild.

 

[Celtic Note]

I understood the logic with Hayes. He just scored 54 points, he scored at a 51 point pace in Philly, on paper he made sense as a cheap 2nd line center. In reality, he was a terrible fit.

We didn’t need to rush into trying to find that center in the first place. We could have plugged in any Joe blow off the street in FA. We didn’t need to try to find a good center, we just needed a temporarily warm body. We weren’t going to be competing for anything meaningful for a few years. So what’s the rush?

And if you needed “culture”, we’ll do your homework1sr. And if you did your homework, maybe you need to assess if you did it correctly or even if know how to do it. Because that was a botch job in so many ways.

…and then we compounded the problem.

For 1 or 2 years term? I don't think we could. Since we didn't give up anything for Joseph or Faksa, I'd say they were the better options.

I'm guessing there were other off-ice considerations with Hayes. I don't love what we gave up to get rid of him, the 3rd with Joseph made it easier to swallow, obviously Hayes was a bad target in the first place, and you should just target cap dumps with short term remaining. What's done is done though. I don't think the downgrade from our 2nd to Ottawa's 3rd is going to make or break our rebuild.

It might not make or break the rebuild but it certainly isn’t a positive step and again we need as many cracks with higher picks as possible to build the talent pool we need and we certainly are not there yet.

 

[Xerloris]

Exactly. Lets say Thomas or Parayko get hurt for even 10-15 games, that's going to give us a pretty brutal stretch. If Binnington or Hofer don't perform at the same level, we are looking at significant regression. If there's a combo of any of that where we can't lean on our top pair or our top line to carry us through the season, then we are truly screwed.

And honestly, I don't think it would be the worst outcome. I'm hoping for 1 more big draft in the form of a top 10 or better pick and then start pushing to make the NHL roster better.

Same can be said for literally any team. If these people get injured and the goal tending sucks etc etc. With the talent we have we should be in the playoffs, can't plan around and unforeseen injury.

 

[Thallis]

Same can be said for literally any team. If these people get injured and the goal tending sucks etc etc. With the talent we have we should be in the playoffs, can't plan around and unforeseen injury.

We didn't make the playoffs when we did have the best injury luck in the league. Other teams have better depth and more talent than we do, playoffs are a longshot right now

 

[bleedblue1223]

Same can be said for literally any team. If these people get injured and the goal tending sucks etc etc. With the talent we have we should be in the playoffs, can't plan around and unforeseen injury.

Sure, but the point is, last season we had arguably the best injury luck last season, if teams revert to the mean, we'll get worse and others will improve in that area. I disagree with the statement that with the talent we have, we should be in the playoffs. If healthy, I think we are a bubble team.

 

[Xerloris]

Sure, but the point is, last season we had arguably the best injury luck last season, if teams revert to the mean, we'll get worse and others will improve in that area. I disagree with the statement that with the talent we have, we should be in the playoffs. If healthy, I think we are a bubble team.

I'm not so sure we had the best injury luck that we think we had. Faulk was clearly injured and I suspect Schenn was as well. Could a healthy Schenn ands Faulk had won us enough games to make the playoffs? Maybe, I think we only needed like 4 more points right?

 

[Reality Czech]

Could we not have found bottom 6 players in FA?

Why not wait out the Hayes mistake? Whats the rush? What’s the risk? We are mediocre vs mediocre either way.

I can think of 5.2 million reasons why.

 

[Ranksu]

Is Parayko for Marner out of window? Ii was few years Back discussion.

 

[Beauterham]

Is Parayko for Marner out of window? Ii was few years Back discussion.

I really hope we're not moving our nr. 1 defenseman for just one year of Marner. And even he did want to waive his NMC, I don't see him resigning with us, so he'd be a very expensive rental in a time where we're not competing anyway (moving Parayko would also create a huge hole on defense which is already quite weak. Without #55 we're very likely to miss the playoffs IMO which makes a Marner aquisition useless).

 

[Ranksu]

I really hope we're not moving our nr. 1 defenseman for just one year of Marner. And even he did want to waive his NMC, I don't see him resigning with us, so he'd be a very expensive rental in a time where we're not competing anyway (moving Parayko would also create a huge hole on defense which is already quite weak. Without #55 we're very likely to miss the playoffs IMO which makes a Marner aquisition useless).

Well we are out from playoffs with or without Parayko.

This team needs to sink heavily before they can compete again. +5 years maybe If we could get that top2 dmen from draft.

 

[Xerloris]

I really hope we're not moving our nr. 1 defenseman for just one year of Marner. And even he did want to waive his NMC, I don't see him resigning with us, so he'd be a very expensive rental in a time where we're not competing anyway (moving Parayko would also create a huge hole on defense which is already quite weak. Without #55 we're very likely to miss the playoffs IMO which makes a Marner aquisition useless).

Where did this idea come from?

 

[Xerloris]

How much salary would edmonton need to retain for Nurse to be a legitimate interest for our top pairing LD if he even could be?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Nurse only "works" if Krug accepts a trade there, which isn't happening. In theory, I'd take Nurse at something around 6, but he scares me too much to even bother with. I think it's possible that he's still a good player that's just overpaid and in a role that he shouldn't be in, but even with retention, I'm not really on board with getting locked into another long-term deal with a defender that we'll struggle to move if it doesn't work out.