2024-2025 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread.

[PocketNines]

No it's Parayko that's why when Pietrangelo left it became clear they kept the better player. Remember how we've been rolling along as a perennial contender since the Cup?

(I love Parayko I am sitting in a Paryako t shirt as I type this ... there is a clear level difference between those players over their career. See I love both players because their excellent play got us a Cup, one of the greatest things that ever happened. It's weird I know.)

 

[STL fan in MN]

I bet in the same thinking that you think Petro in a number #1 in Vegas this last year.

Well, he led the entire team in ice time and faced by far the hardest minutes of all of their d-men. So yeah, he was pretty clearly their #1D. Not too many players can say they’ve led two different Cup winning franchises in ice time. Both team’s first Cups too.

I get some here don’t like the guy but damn is the revisionist history getting crazy here.

 

[PocketNines]

Well, he led the entire team in ice time and faced by far the hardest minutes of all of their d-men. So yeah, he was pretty clearly their #1D. Not too many players can say they’ve led two different Cup winning franchises in ice time. Both team’s first Cups too.

I get some here don’t like the guy but damn is the revisionist history getting crazy here.

Only one person can, in all of hockey history. There was a reason Draisaitl, McDavid and Kane were targeting him in that series during the Vegas Cup run. He had the temerity to hand it right back. "Captain Creampuff" moniker creator is definitely the stupidest Blues fan. A profound dolt with their own toughness identity issues projected

 

[STL fan in MN]

Only one person can, in all of hockey history. There was a reason Draisaitl, McDavid and Kane were targeting him in that series during the Vegas Cup run. He had the temerity to hand it right back. "Captain Creampuff" moniker creator is definitely the stupidest Blues fan. A profound dolt with their own toughness identity issues projected

Interesting stat. Didn’t realize he was the only one.

I never got the cream puff or Tempurangelo stuff either. He doesn’t deliver massive hits but he’s super competitive and sneaky dirty out there. Whit and Biz said it well in the clip below. He and Tkachuk can be friendly off the ice but he’s a complete prick on the ice. Also acknowledges he’s a great all-around true #1 d-man.

 

[PocketNines]

It was his super competitivity that made me trust his contract would age well enough that whatever drop off in the final 2-3 years of the deal he would remain a valuable on ice player throughout. But the fear of what if we wanted to trade him and we couldn't was what drove so many to believe we should cut bait. There were years where these people were convinced they were right. They weren't but the abuse went on for some years before the guy shut almost everyone up and now there's a chorus.

The other thing is that players perceive the real players, and the perception of the Blues while Pietrangelo was on them was they were going to be a perennial playoff team, which makes it easier for you to keep rolling over the high end talent, because they want to play where they have a chance to win, because the high end players are super competitive. They understood there was no support beam here, and people are like "it's the state income taxes" why they don't want to come. Players want to win the Cup, they want to lift it, they want to get their names immortalized on it. It is an avatar of significance, and people will kill for significance. (see, eg, Sunset Boulevard and Mulholland Drive btw.)

 

[PocketNines]

Super random the first game of the NHL season (minus whatever overseas games there may or may not be this year) is the Blues playing in Seattle at 1:30pm local time on a Tuesday

 

[Celtic Note]

Cup or bust for me. You play to win! I personally would be fine with a couple more years of pain and also fine with the pain being worse (picking around 5th, not 10-16) but it appears Stillman and Army don’t believe Blues fans as a whole will support that for them to remain a viable business. And based on some of the comments and responses here, I think they’re unfortunately probably right.

That said, I am a believer in a roster that’s built more on depth than 1-2 superstars…BUT even if you don’t have any likely HHOFers on your roster, you still very likely need a handful of Hall of Very Good players to have a chance at the Cup.

IMO, the Blues are trying to thread a very delicate needle. It’s possible but history shows the much more likely way to win the Cup is by bottoming out for a few years and accumulating top talent. For the Blues to win the Cup again, they’re probably going to have to find a way to pull off a deal similar to the ROR deal but for a #1 d-man…which almost never happens…OR…get lucky and find that elite d-man in the mid to later 1st round (or later). It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. I guess we’ll see if it pays off for them.

There’s a lot of good stuff here that I agree with, but the thing that stands out to me the most is your “trying to thread a very delicate needle” comment. This is exactly how i see it. If the end goal is a Cup, we are taking the hardest possible path to get there, with the least possible examples of success.

We are trying a path that deviates from the one that landed us a Cup. A path that was exceptionally difficult to achieve in the first place and one that occurred in the last two years of our window with a trade that pushed us over the top happening the summer before it all happened. I am not even sure that if we take that path another 10 times that it yields us a Cup. It was the perfect storm at the right time. It was amazing. It was deserved. It was a beautiful experience. But, it was our only real chance at a Cup in a decade plus of time and it just so happened that we pulled it all together that year with a group of players that wouldn’t except no as an answer to obtaining the Cup more than I recall seeing in a long time. The next year they didn’t make that same decision to take no for an answer and the end of our window closed. Just like that. We threaded a needle then and this go, it’s going to be even more difficult.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm just catching up here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but are we debating whether or not Pietrangelo was a 1D for us? And if he was our best D in 2019?

I mean, I think that's what I'm reading, I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding because it just seems like an easy answer....obviously he was?

Its sadly the world we live in now. People make judgements/decisions and set those in stone. A lot of times those decisions never made sense to begin with but were rationalizations to cope with certain difficult realities. People seem more and more are incapable of letting new information change those decisions as they made them the bedrock of their personality.

We lose Pietrangelo. This sucks. So rather than facing the reality that the team will get worse, people decide he wasn't that good, he was a jerk who wanted to leave, etc. This becomes the bedrock of their Blues fandom. An attack on this idea is an attack on that very fandom. The fact that Petro went on to win another cup as a 1D, or that Krug has not worked out, does not change this core belief. It only leads to wilder and wilder conspiracy theories to make those results make sense through the lens of the original worldview. Shout out to Blueston who I often disagree with for taking a more nuanced approach above. That is rare.

Its the same with politics. It's why we have people passionately supporting horrendous people on both sides of the aisle. Its in pop culture with people defending truly gross patterns of behavior from Drake or Dr. Disrespect because they cannot deal with having been a fan of someone who turned out to be a 30-something adult talking inaaporipriately to minors. These are more dangerous than thinking Petro sucks, but its the same core problem causing all these baffling opinions.

 

[Celtic Note]

Its sadly the world we live in now. People make judgements/decisions and set those in stone. A lot of times those decisions never made sense to begin with but were rationalizations to cope with certain difficult realities. People seem more and more are incapable of letting new information change those decisions as they made them the bedrock of their personality.

We lose Pietrangelo. This sucks. So rather than facing the reality that the team will get worse, people decide he wasn't that good, he was a jerk who wanted to leave, etc. This becomes the bedrock of their Blues fandom. An attack on this idea is an attack on that very fandom. The fact that Petro went on to win another cup as a 1D, or that Krug has not worked out, does not change this core belief. It only leads to wilder and wilder conspiracy theories to make those results make sense through the lens of the original worldview. Shout out to Blueston who I often disagree with for taking a more nuanced approach above. That is rare.

Its the same with politics. It's why we have people passionately supporting horrendous people on both sides of the aisle. Its in pop culture with people defending truly gross patterns of behavior from Drake or Dr. Disrespect because they cannot deal with having been a fan of someone who turned out to be a 30-something adult talking inaaporipriately to minors. These are more dangerous than thinking Petro sucks, but its the same core problem causing all these baffling opinions.

When we can’t critique and learn as a collective, we have problems. When we accept mediocrity and bad behavior, we also have problems. When we lie to ourselves and believe it, we have problems. When we do not believe in evidence or science, we have problems.

TLDR: we have problems

Are egos even more fragile now than in the past or are we just coming realize the collective fragility?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

When we can’t critique and learn as a collective, we have big problems. When we accept mediocrity and bad behavior, we have big problems.

Are egos even more fragile now than in the past or are we just coming realize the collective fragility?

Bam!

We are not Americans. We are hyphenated Americans.
We are not engaged in civil matters. We hide behind blanket banners.

I'm a this! I'm a that! I, me, I, me....

The whole point of having an ego/basic identity is to detach from it. In order to let go of our limited sense of identity, we have to have an identity first.

But with so many social groups fragmenting into sub-identities, our collective timelines fragment more and more. Our collective perception agreements are falling apart.

Divide and conquer. I could go on and on about the metaphysical concept of timelines.

--

Go Hockey!

 

[Majorityof1]

When we can’t critique and learn as a collective, we have problems. When we accept mediocrity and bad behavior, we also have problems. When we lie to ourselves and believe it, we have problems. When we do believe in evidence or science, we have problems.
TLDR: we have problems

Are egos even more fragile now than in the past or are we just coming realize the collective fragility?

Both. With the internet so easily spreading information, it also more easily spreads misinformation. There has always been more profit in misinformation. While the internet can bring people together, it also can bring like minded people together, exclude the rest, and create echo chambers. And again, there is more profit in that.

But people have always been willfully ignorant for their own self interest. Our country was founded on the compromise that some people only count as 3/5th of a person.

 

[Ranksu]

 

[Celtic Note]

I think Majority beat us to the punch with that username

 

[Drubilly]

Every time I see Majority of 1’s name I always think of that scene in the Sopranos where an Army recruiter is delivering his spiel to Tony. Tony and AJ are there so Tony can scare AJ straight. Tony starts calling out the recruiter’s logic regarding discipline and falling into line with “how the f**k are you doing that? I thought you’re trying to create an Army Of One!” Lol

 

[TK 421]

Love Petro, hope he's well and thank you again 2019 Stanley Cup Champion!(I don't care about your other Cup).

 

[bleedblue1223]

In Army's interview from the prospect camp, he did have an interesting comment, and I know he's not in charge of lines, but still interesting. Someone asked about who would be #2 C, and he more or less said the order could be Thomas, Buch/Schenn, Faksa, and Sunny. I think most of us just assumed Faksa would be the 4th line center, and I still think that will be the case, but it would be interesting if Army's plan was to have Faksa get 15+ minutes per game with the hope that he scores at a decent enough rate to get a bit more at the deadline, and Dvorsky takes his spot after he's traded.

I don't know if Faksa can still score at a 30 point pace, but I wouldn't hate that scenario.

 

[BlueDream]

In Army's interview from the prospect camp, he did have an interesting comment, and I know he's not in charge of lines, but still interesting. Someone asked about who would be #2 C, and he more or less said the order could be Thomas, Buch/Schenn, Faksa, and Sunny. I think most of us just assumed Faksa would be the 4th line center, and I still think that will be the case, but it would be interesting if Army's plan was to have Faksa get 15+ minutes per game with the hope that he scores at a decent enough rate to get a bit more at the deadline, and Dvorsky takes his spot after he's traded.

I don't know if Faksa can still score at a 30 point pace, but I wouldn't hate that scenario.

Yeah the problem with that is I don’t even know if we can rely on Sunny at 4C with the injury he’s coming off of. Even if we won’t be a playoff team, that almost feels unfair to ask that of him. I wish we would just put him at wing and let Faksa center the 4th line. Either that or Dean is going to have to have a good camp and become the 4C.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah the problem with that is I don’t even know if we can rely on Sunny at 4C with the injury he’s coming off of. Even if we won’t be a playoff team, that almost feels unfair to ask that of him. I wish we would just put him at wing and let Faksa center the 4th line. Either that or Dean is going to have to have a good camp and become the 4C.

Right, I don't put too much stock into it, Faksa as the 4th line center still makes the most sense, with Sunny as one of the wingers on that line.

 

[BlueDream]

General thought here but it is refreshing reading comments about the new guys we acquired from fans of those teams, saying that Faksa and Joseph don’t take any shifts off. They are among the hardest workers on their teams and give 150% every time they step on the ice. I was already familiar with these players so it’s not new info, but it’s still nice to read as a complete 180 from guys like Hayes and Vrana.

If we’re not going to be very good, I at least want to be harder to play against. I want to see a more consistent effort and know what we’re going to be getting each night. These moves, along with Texier, accomplish that. Our forecheck, PK, and overall defensive ability from the forwards should be way improved. That at least provides some excitement for watching this group next season. Now, I still hope we have a move coming for the defense.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Yeah the problem with that is I don’t even know if we can rely on Sunny at 4C with the injury he’s coming off of. Even if we won’t be a playoff team, that almost feels unfair to ask that of him. I wish we would just put him at wing and let Faksa center the 4th line. Either that or Dean is going to have to have a good camp and become the 4C.

I’d agree. Not even a certainty Sunny is ready to go once camp opens.

I absolutely love Sunny but my opinion was that he shouldn’t be playing C anymore before his most recent knee injury. Maybe he’ll surprise us and he’ll be the new bionic man (we will rebuild him!) and he’ll show up to camp flying around the ice…but I doubt it.

He’s likely a much better fit on the wing these days. And we have a lack of right shooting players and RWs so that’d help solve that issue a bit too as he should fit great at 4RW with Torpo likely as 4LW.

 

[shpongle falls]

Lots of good Blues talk here, they interview Lindstein at about 1:53:00 and then Army at the end.

 

[Majorityof1]

Lots of good Blues talk here, they interview Lindstein at about 1:53:00 and then Army at the end.

I should have just skipped straight to the interviews. I never listen to radio guys, Is the guy in the middle on the Blues payroll?

As for the interview, Army says "We take care of our own first." Sure, Army. Trade for and sign Faulk before talking to he he should not be named. "Our defense is NHL average" Sure Army. Sure.

 

[Blueston]

I should have just skipped straight to the interviews. I never listen to radio guys, Is the guy in the middle on the Blues payroll?

As for the interview, Army says "We take care of our own first." Sure, Army. Trade for and sign Faulk before talking to he he should not be named. "Our defense is NHL average" Sure Army. Sure.Pl

Please. He traded for Faulk because Petro wanted $ well above what DA thought he merited. And DA was likely wrong on that valuation, certainly wrong on thinking krug signing was smart move to help replace him, but if folks wanted to understand that they would by now. I think you saw again with Buchy, that if a key player wants to extend with Blues what can happen. If Petro wanted to extend he would have. He had other priorities. It's fine. It worked out for Petro, he got $ and won Cup in Vegas. It didn't work out for us, but we have been through this repeatedly and it should be clear that it was never about some NMC. But folks can continue to take cheap shots at Army because he has too much class to call out Petro for his BS.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Krug has been with the Blues for only four seasons. Why does it seem like eight?