HF Habs: 2023 World U18 Men's Hockey Championship: Finals Sunday, April 30 | Canada wins Bronze, 4-3 (OT) | USA wins Gold, 3-2 (OT), Sweden Silver

Michoulicious

Registered User
Dec 9, 2014
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Credit where credit is due though.

He has a solid tournament following a strong offensive year. That said, I don't believe that this U18, or any other intl play, should weigh more than any league play for any prospect which is likely what you're alluding to.

I've been critical of his overall game with the USDP, and I stand by what I said, but he's showing a lot of good things out there so it's at least encouraging to see.
Exactly.

Caufield was great at USNDP with great linemates. He was incredible at the U18 with great linemates. He was just a great young player.

Smith is having a record season with the program with great linemates. He's dominating at the U18 with great linemates.

Maybe Smith is just also a great young player? :)
 

WinterLion

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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How would you feel if the Habs don't take one of these guys? Who would you take if you couldn't take any of these... just for fun!

Bedard
Fantilli
Carlsson
Michkov
Benson
Smith
Reinbacher
 
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Goldenhands

Slaf_The_Great
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Aug 21, 2016
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You have to give Smith credit for his play so far in this tournament, wont hustle much, wont engage physically or apply much pressure on his opponents, but at least he is skating both ways and shows a better commitment. That being said, he is playing with 2 excellent players, 2 first rounders, a line that developped excellent chimestry and dominated offensively all year long, that USNDTP squad is just so stacked, no real weaknesses and great depth everywhere. Meanwhile, a kid like Dvorsky is playing with kids that might end up not being drafted at all. 2 very different situations, 2 very different players with different tools. Ive no issue with the ones preffering SmIth at that point, the talent level is very high and pretty attractive, but he still has the same weaknesses he will need to address down the road in order to become an impact player. How much strength can he add to his frame? Will it make him more enclined to engage physically, more competitive on 200 ft.? Those are the question marks about Smith, but all kids have some question marks to their game at some extend, so I dont think its crazy to have him ranked around 5th OV at that point, its all about preference past the top 4. Personally I like players with more grit and sandpaper to their game, better rounded, but I still can appreciate his talent level and his high offensive IQ. If Smith keeps offering such showings, it will only offer us more options comes draft day.
 

WinterLion

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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You have to give Smith credit for his play so far in this tournament, wont hustle much, wont engage physically or apply much pressure on his opponents, but at least he is skating both ways and shows a better commitment. That being said, he is playing with 2 excellent players, 2 first rounders, a line that developped excellent chimestry and dominated offensively all year long, that USNDTP squad is just so stacked, no real weaknesses and great depth everywhere. Meanwhile, a kid like Dvorsky is playing with kids that might end up not being drafted at all. 2 very different situations, 2 very different players with different tools. Ive no issue with the ones preffering SmIth at that point, the talent level is very high and pretty attractive, but he still has the same weaknesses he will need to address down the road in order to become an impact player. How much strength can he add to his frame? Will it make him more enclined to engage physically, more competitive on 200 ft.? Those are the question marks about Smith, but all kids have some question marks to their game at some extend, so I dont think its crazy to have him ranked around 5th OV at that point, its all about preference past the top 4. Personally I like players with more grit and sandpaper to their game, better rounded, but I still can appreciate his talent level and his high offensive IQ. If Smith keeps offering such showings, it will only offer us more options comes draft day.

I want to see what Smith does to elevate his game at key moments. Last year that was really the thing that set Cooley apart for me. Dvorsky certainly has it and like you said, he does it with a lesser entourage.
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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Christ lol
One has to think that by this point, it's looking like it's gonna be Smith or Michkov for us, maaaybe Carlsson
Pretty spectacular if we miss out on Bedard

There's still a higher probability (58%) we draft 6th or 7th than 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 5th (42%)...

Still gotta wait for the lottery before we see if we have that 5th pick. Only a 25% chance we pick 5th.
 

WeThreeKings

Demidov is a HAB
Sep 19, 2006
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Halifax
I want to see what Smith does to elevate his game at key moments. Last year that was really the thing that set Cooley apart for me. Dvorsky certainly has it and like you said, he does it with a lesser entourage.

I wouldn't said Dvorsky certainly has it. Critical moment of the game on a 3 on 1, on his stick and he chose to pass it to the guy who was covered by the D man and had the back checker coming in on him.

Those plays bother me, if he's not making his own shot, he doesn't necessarily put his teammates in great positions with his playmaking or hands.

If we bump down to 7, Dvorsky enters the convo. Prior to that, I don't think he should. Having better teammates always helps but it isn't the reason why his hands rarely put him in an advantageous position, and it isn't a reason why across all levels his playmaking game hasn't read anything but average.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
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Citizen of the world
Its so annoying how when you dont like someone you just try to tear him down anyway you can. Dvorsky and Smith are the targes ot some very blatant "hate".

Not letting emotion get the better of your evaluation is very, very important.

I for one, am not encouraged by Cristall and Woods showing at all, but then again...? How should we interpret this? Everyone on Canada looks like shite.
 

WinterLion

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
5,421
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Its so annoying how when you dont like someone you just try to tear him down anyway you can. Dvorsky and Smith are the targes ot some very blatant "hate".

Not letting emotion get the better of your evaluation is very, very important.

I for one, am not encouraged by Cristall and Woods showing at all, but then again...? How should we interpret this? Everyone on Canada looks like shite.

Yeah Cristal and Wood haven't looked great yet. It's always a tough tourny for Canada... they need time to develop some chemistry and half the players haven't had time to digest their CHL season... Hopefully they can get it on track. That was a good game today, let's hope those two guys step it up.
 

MarkovsKnee

Global Moderator
Nov 21, 2007
55,533
70,690
Toronto
You have to give Smith credit for his play so far in this tournament, wont hustle much, wont engage physically or apply much pressure on his opponents, but at least he is skating both ways and shows a better commitment. That being said, he is playing with 2 excellent players, 2 first rounders, a line that developped excellent chimestry and dominated offensively all year long, that USNDTP squad is just so stacked, no real weaknesses and great depth everywhere. Meanwhile, a kid like Dvorsky is playing with kids that might end up not being drafted at all. 2 very different situations, 2 very different players with different tools. Ive no issue with the ones preffering SmIth at that point, the talent level is very high and pretty attractive, but he still has the same weaknesses he will need to address down the road in order to become an impact player. How much strength can he add to his frame? Will it make him more enclined to engage physically, more competitive on 200 ft.? Those are the question marks about Smith, but all kids have some question marks to their game at some extend, so I dont think its crazy to have him ranked around 5th OV at that point, its all about preference past the top 4. Personally I like players with more grit and sandpaper to their game, better rounded, but I still can appreciate his talent level and his high offensive IQ. If Smith keeps offering such showings, it will only offer us more options comes draft day.

I mean, that describes majority of top players in NHL like Patrick Kane, Kucherov or Panarin. They're not the best defensively but they're so good offensively that it negates lack of defensive play quite a bit. They're also not remotely physical.

Imo, it's what we need this year. A high end offensive player, or someone with the ability to get there. I think Smith's floor is Zegras. With development he might get to Marner/Kucherov territory. He has sick skills.

I remember in the fall during the u18s 5 Nations tournament you posted that with development, Smith could be a top line player perhaps 100 pt level. It's only since the last u18 tournament - 4 nations tournament in January that you started to drop Smith in your rankings.

No question he's 2 years away. He needs strength training, and a bit more power in his skating, but the NCAA route is a perfect road for Smith to round out his game.

I agree with @WeThreeKings that there are enough two-way players in the organization. We need another pure offensive talent to go along with Caufield. There's also enough talent in this draft to still draft a grit & grind guy after our top pick.

Wahlberg, Edstrom, Wood, Honzek, Stenberg, Stramel, Coulson Pitre, Nordh, etc are all going to be available at our next 2 picks.

Then in 3rd & 4th rounds, you still have guys like Lind, Hay, Lipinski, Oscarsson, Pharand, etc.

There's more than a few big, grit & grind guys in this draft that we can draft to continue to build up the team.
 

WinterLion

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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I mean, that describes majority of top players in NHL like Patrick Kane, Kucherov or Panarin. They're not the best defensively but they're so good offensively that it negates lack of defensive play quite a bit. They're also not remotely physical.

Imo, it's what we need this year. A high end offensive player, or someone with the ability to get there. I think Smith's floor is Zegras. With development he might get to Marner/Kucherov territory. He has sick skills.

I remember in the fall during the u18s 5 Nations tournament you posted that with development, Smith could be a top line player perhaps 100 pt level. It's only since the last u18 tournament - 4 nations tournament in January that you started to drop Smith in your rankings.

No question he's 2 years away. He needs strength training, and a bit more power in his skating, but the NCAA route is a perfect road for Smith to round out his game.

I agree with @WeThreeKings that there are enough two-way players in the organization. We need another pure offensive talent to go along with Caufield. There's also enough talent in this draft to still draft a grit & grind guy after our top pick.

Wahlberg, Edstrom, Wood, Honzek, Stenberg, Stramel, Coulson Pitre, Nordh, etc are all going to be available at our next 2 picks.

Then in 3rd & 4th rounds, you still have guys like Lind, Hay, Lipinski, Oscarsson, Pharand, etc.

There's more than a few big, grit & grind guys in this draft that we can draft to continue to build up the team.

Yeah I think you are right, especially early in the draft. The only thing that would trump that type of thinking is if you thought there was a D who you could put on the ice for 25min per night and have them tilt the ice.... but maybe that guy just isn't there this year.
 

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
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I mean, that describes majority of top players in NHL like Patrick Kane, Kucherov or Panarin. They're not the best defensively but they're so good offensively that it negates lack of defensive play quite a bit. They're also not remotely physical.

Imo, it's what we need this year. A high end offensive player, or someone with the ability to get there. I think Smith's floor is Zegras. With development he might get to Marner/Kucherov territory. He has sick skills.

I remember in the fall during the u18s 5 Nations tournament you posted that with development, Smith could be a top line player perhaps 100 pt level. It's only since the last u18 tournament - 4 nations tournament in January that you started to drop Smith in your rankings.

No question he's 2 years away. He needs strength training, and a bit more power in his skating, but the NCAA route is a perfect road for Smith to round out his game.

I agree with @WeThreeKings that there are enough two-way players in the organization. We need another pure offensive talent to go along with Caufield. There's also enough talent in this draft to still draft a grit & grind guy after our top pick.

Wahlberg, Edstrom, Wood, Honzek, Stenberg, Stramel, Coulson Pitre, Nordh, etc are all going to be available at our next 2 picks.

Then in 3rd & 4th rounds, you still have guys like Lind, Hay, Lipinski, Oscarsson, Pharand, etc.

There's more than a few big, grit & grind guys in this draft that we can draft to continue to build up the team.
I’m not sure I’d say Smiths floor is Zegras. I’d say Zegras would be middle result.
 

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
14,816
13,739
Its so annoying how when you dont like someone you just try to tear him down anyway you can. Dvorsky and Smith are the targes ot some very blatant "hate".

Not letting emotion get the better of your evaluation is very, very important.


I for one, am not encouraged by Cristall and Woods showing at all, but then again...? How should we interpret this? Everyone on Canada looks like shite.
absolutely. Scouting should be a fluid practice. I had Dvorsky 5 and Smith 6 heading into the tourney but based on what I’ve seen I’d flip them. Smith took over the game today and showed elite ability so I will not ignore that. And I don’t need to shit on Dvorsky either, he had a great 3rd himself in a much tighter game.
 

Michoulicious

Registered User
Dec 9, 2014
7,519
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I’m not sure I’d say Smiths floor is Zegras. I’d say Zegras would be middle result.
Zegras is amazing. He scored 60+ points in the NHL in his D+3 and D+4. He's 22. He could score 90-100 points a season with better wingers than Henrique/Milano/Terry/etc. as soon as next season, and he's only 22.

If Smith turns out to be a Zegras, I'll be very glad.
 
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Goldenhands

Slaf_The_Great
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Aug 21, 2016
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I mean, that describes majority of top players in NHL like Patrick Kane, Kucherov or Panarin. They're not the best defensively but they're so good offensively that it negates lack of defensive play quite a bit. They're also not remotely physical.

Imo, it's what we need this year. A high end offensive player, or someone with the ability to get there. I think Smith's floor is Zegras. With development he might get to Marner/Kucherov territory. He has sick skills.

I remember in the fall during the u18s 5 Nations tournament you posted that with development, Smith could be a top line player perhaps 100 pt level. It's only since the last u18 tournament - 4 nations tournament in January that you started to drop Smith in your rankings.

No question he's 2 years away. He needs strength training, and a bit more power in his skating, but the NCAA route is a perfect road for Smith to round out his game.

I agree with @WeThreeKings that there are enough two-way players in the organization. We need another pure offensive talent to go along with Caufield. There's also enough talent in this draft to still draft a grit & grind guy after our top pick.

Wahlberg, Edstrom, Wood, Honzek, Stenberg, Stramel, Coulson Pitre, Nordh, etc are all going to be available at our next 2 picks.

Then in 3rd & 4th rounds, you still have guys like Lind, Hay, Lipinski, Oscarsson, Pharand, etc.

There's more than a few big, grit & grind guys in this draft that we can draft to continue to build up the team.
My first viewing of Smith was at the last U18 a year ago and I recall it like it was yesterday, his weak frame and slow feet made me wonder what he was doing on that squad. I mean if you compare Smith last year to Eiserman or even Hagens this year, its not comparable, Then I watched some 5 nations games at the begin of the year and I thought he really took a big step foward in term of strength/skating, his tools stood out instantly, puckhandling, playmaking, I was wowed, thats probably when I said he could become a top line center down the road with more strengthening ect. Then took a break and barely watched prospects till late november or december, then watched some prospects here and there ramdomly including a few USNTDP games. I started to question Smith's game after watching them 2-3 in a row where I could pay more attention to details, then barely missed one of their games to end up with what I think is a clear picture of the big 4.

Most people watching that US squad will have difficulties to identify the strengths/weaknesses of each player since the team is loaded of talent and they can win most games on skills alone, what makes it tougher to assess all parts of their game individually. The reason why I wanted to watch them extensively...

If I recall correctly, I started to like Oliver Moore better than Smith pretty early, Ive had a crush for his tools and I had him pretty high in my ranking, we can go back in the draft threads, but Im pretty sure I was the only one to have him in my top 6 at one point. To make a long story short, the more you watch, the more you can assess these players properly with objectivity. With Moore, time learnt me that his offensive awarenesses were probably not top line material and as much as I like his tools and the player, you reach the point where if you want to rank those kids honestly with integrity and objectivity, it has to reflect in your ranking, the reason why I dropped him a bit.

With Smith, the talent level is really high, his offensive awareness and creativity are high end, but there are flaws in his game that bothers me alot, make me doubt about the player. I could repeat it again and over again, but if you guys arent worried at all and want to believe he is a future NHL star, so it be, we are allowed to have different opinions.

Im not really an advanced stats guy, I barely watch it, but EP put a video on Smith where his advanced stats arent very flattering, especially his in-zone passing rate and it fits with what I see, kid will make some savant passes where he looks like a genius, but will also turn it over often, thats where your creativity can become your worst enemy. His lack of puck protection skills will make him try lower % plays, when it works, great, when it doesnt though...
 

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