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Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v5 | Wed, June 7 | vs HOU | 7:00pm ET/4:00pm PT | Blanco vs Bassitt

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Unless something changes, when White and Espinal return, the guys going down need to be Manoah and Biggio.

Manoah needs to figure out how to pitch faster and Biggio needs to get his timing back.

At this point, there's no reason for TB not to simply steal every time there's a runner on base. Manoah has no clue how to hold a runner with a pitch clock.
 
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Eyedea said:
Starting 0-2 and leading to walks on multiple occasions is just straight up bad game calling.
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I disagree. I think the problem is that he's only able to control 2 of his pitches (his fastballs). Essentially, Kirk has little to nothing to work with.
 
Bjindaho said:
I disagree. I think the problem is that he's only able to control 2 of his pitches (his fastballs). Essentially, Kirk has little to nothing to work with.
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So call a high fastball? Don't go with an obvious slider in the dirt anytime he gets ahead in the count? He had 9 whiffs and was consistently in the zone with his fastball and slider against Baltimore. What changed?
 
Eyedea said:
Starting 0-2 and leading to walks on multiple occasions is just straight up bad game calling.
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I'm not able to watch, but what makes that bad game calling? Looking at Gameday, they seem to be calling everything and Manoah can't throw a strike or get a chase. I could see blaming the game calling if they kept going to one pitch and it wasn't working, but they're trying everything and nothing is working.
 
Like I’ve said… every 5th game is a guaranteed loss. Fire everyone. Monaoh is pure garbage. Let’s keep sending him out. So smart.
 
Maybe he’s been injured and has been hiding it . *shrug*. It’s hard to believe he forgot how to pitch. I didn’t expect numbers like last year BUT this year has been a disaster so far. Send him down on a conditioning stint!
 
trellaine201 said:
Maybe he’s been injured and has been hiding it . *shrug*. It’s hard to believe he forgot how to pitch. I didn’t expect numbers like last year BUT this year has been a disaster so far.
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He looked out of shape in ST.

shaner89 said:
Like I’ve said… every 5th game is a guaranteed loss. Fire everyone. Monaoh is pure garbage. Let’s keep sending him out. So smart.
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With Boston off today, this was another missed opportunity.
 
trellaine201 said:
Maybe he’s been injured and has been hiding it . *shrug*. It’s hard to believe he forgot how to pitch. I didn’t expect numbers like last year BUT this year has been a disaster so far. Send him down on a conditioning stint!
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Honestly, it seems like he uses the entire pitch clock getting ready for the next pitch then rushes it.
 
Discoverer said:
I'm not able to watch, but what makes that bad game calling? Looking at Gameday, they seem to be calling everything and Manoah can't throw a strike or get a chase. I could see blaming the game calling if they kept going to one pitch and it wasn't working, but they're trying everything and nothing is working.
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For the most part it was exclusively sinker/slider with 2 strikes. If anything they were too reliant on the slider because his sinker wasn't catching the zone, and that made him predictable.

I don't know. Kirk could legitimately be tipping pitches, but I've noticed players were not offering at his sinker and he barely threw his 4seam or change up. When Jansen was catching there was a more prominent 3/4 pitch mix and his slider wasn't the most (or even second most) thrown pitch like it was today. Obviously Tampa is the best hitting team in baseball but they have plenty of chase and whiff prone players in their lineup.
 
Maybe Jano had positive effect on him last start, it wasn't brilliant but at least he was getting thru some innings before Schneider's f***up had him pulled.

Well, looks like he's back to crap with Kirk behind the plate. And with Jano's injury unertainty, he could be out for a bit. Hamstrings dont heal quickly.

The team keeping Kirk over Moreno looks pretty bad now.
 
MK78 said:
Maybe Jano had positive effect on him last start, it wasn't brilliant but at least he was getting thru some innings before Schneider's f***up had him pulled.

Well, looks like he's back to crap with Kirk behind the plate. And with Jano's injury unertainty, he could be out for a bit. Hamstrings dont heal quickly.

The team keeping Kirk over Moreno looks pretty bad now.
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We're not sure that that was really a choice, though.

There were more than a few vocal people saying that if AZ values both equally, you move Kirk.
 
Bjindaho said:
We're not sure that that was really a choice, though.

There were more than a few vocal people saying that if AZ values both equally, you move Kirk.
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Oh i wasnt talking about the AZ trade specifically. But Kirk's value at just before the all star game was high, I really thought they were gonna trade him.

Players with that body type are just not your typical ball players. He's a liability on the bases, has to be pulled in late innings for faster runners, opponents seem to be running on him like crazy this year especially. And he hasn't been hitting like he was for the first half of last year, so you can't relly rely on him for that.

5 stolen bases today, 2 just back to back now.
 
MK78 said:
Oh i wasnt talking about the AZ trade specifically. But Kirk's value at just before the all star game was high, I really thought they were gonna trade him.

Players with that body type are just not your typical ball players. He's a liability on the bases, has to be pulled in late innings for faster runners, opponents seem to be running on him like crazy this year especially. And he hasn't been hitting like he was for the first half of last year, so you can't relly rely on him for that.

5 stolen bases today, 2 just back to back now.
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7 steals today. They had 3 in the 3rd.
 
MK78 said:
Maybe Jano had positive effect on him last start, it wasn't brilliant but at least he was getting thru some innings before Schneider's f***up had him pulled.

Well, looks like he's back to crap with Kirk behind the plate. And with Jano's injury unertainty, he could be out for a bit. Hamstrings dont heal quickly.

The team keeping Kirk over Moreno looks pretty bad now.
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It's possible that the pitch-tipping thing is part of it, but Kirk caught almost every inning Manoah threw when he finished 3rd in Cy Young voting last year. The idea that Kirk is now the problem just because Manoah made one decent start with Jansen behind the plate is ridiculous. Hell, that one wasn't even close to his best start of the season.
 
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Shit i forgot this was an afternoon game.

Manoah needs to be taken out of the rotation i think. You can't blame it on Kirk when he finished third in Cy Young voting with him doing the majority of the catching last year.
 
MK78 said:
Oh i wasnt talking about the AZ trade specifically. But Kirk's value at just before the all star game was high, I really thought they were gonna trade him.

Players with that body type are just not your typical ball players. He's a liability on the bases, has to be pulled in late innings for faster runners, opponents seem to be running on him like crazy this year especially. And he hasn't been hitting like he was for the first half of last year, so you can't relly rely on him for that.

5 stolen bases today, 2 just back to back now.
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Even with today's disaster, Kirk still has a higher CS% than Jansen (it was league average at 22% coming into today... Jansen is at 12%). They've both been league average throwers over their careers, so I wonder how much of it has to do with the pitchers not holding runners well with the new rules.

They're also the best pitch-blocking tandem in baseball, so I'm not really concerned about his defensive ability at this point.
 
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