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Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v4 | Sun, May 21 | vs BAL | 1:30pm ET/10:30am PT | Kremer vs Gausman

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Blitzkrug said:
In an ideal world, Manoah treads water long enough for Ryu to come back so they have another arm for the rotation if you need to send him down. But that's asking a lot given the latter is just starting to rehab.
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I heard something last week on the radio that he had a setback.
 
lol alec romero on the mound, this is quite baffling tbh.

looks like barrios passed on whatever he had last year to manoah.
 
It's looking more and more everyday like that game 1 against Seattle rattled Manoah's confidence and it seems to be seeping its way into this season.

He seems to be the pitchers version of Markstrom. An amazing previous season, got lit up in the playoffs and then continues to get lit up the following season
 
mikeyz said:
It's looking more and more everyday like that game 1 against Seattle rattled Manoah's confidence and it seems to be seeping its way into this season.

He seems to be the pitchers version of Markstrom. An amazing previous season, got lit up in the playoffs and then continues to get lit up the following season
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I mean it is his 2nd full season in the majors little bit early for making some sweeping statement like there is evidence to base it on. He has had a great season and so far a awful one. That is all we know.
 
Manoah needs to lose some weight and start adding some finnesse into his pitches. He's praying with power throws, half of them are on the middle of the plate.

He's super predictable right now and gets gassed out early in games, so he only lasts about 5 innings.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
I mean it is his 2nd full season in the majors little bit early for making some sweeping statement like there is evidence to base it on. He has had a great season and so far a awful one. That is all we know.
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Based on what we see to this point, he's not wrong. Manoah has been uniformly bad in most of his 8 starts....it's not even like Berrios last season where it ping-ponged between awful and good.
 
Was browsing reddit today and found an actually tangible explanation as to why Manoah's slider suddenly sucks so much;



TL;DR - he's starting the slider too low to the point pitchers can see it out of his hand. Fastballs and sliders are generally meant to tunnel together but Manoah has it all goofed up.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
I mean it is his 2nd full season in the majors little bit early for making some sweeping statement like there is evidence to base it on. He has had a great season and so far a awful one. That is all we know.
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He started 20 games in 2021. That's roughly two thirds of a season. It's not like he was a september callup.

I think the body of work was pretty good in 51 starts combined 2021-22.
 
Get North said:
Manoah needs to lose some weight and start adding some finnesse into his pitches. He's praying with power throws, half of them are on the middle of the plate.

He's super predictable right now and gets gassed out early in games, so he only lasts about 5 innings.
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Him being big has nothing to do with being an effective pitcher. he's also not "praying with power throws" when he's never been a power guy. His fastball is at or slightly below league average.

His biggest issue is that he's lost velo from last year, his slider has lost break from last year, and his performance last year was in part significantly backed by unsustainable luck (as well as benefits that have been lost with the shift ban) that was bound to normalize and hurt him.

He does have some things to sort out but it has less to do with losing weight and more about figuring out why the stuff that made him effective (aside from the BABIP luck and strand success) have regressed or deserted him this year. Maybe it's an injury. Maybe it's a mechanical adjustment. Hard to say at this point.
 
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Hard to fix things at the major league level on a win now team.
 
His pitches are just all over the place. Only one he seems to be able to locate is the fastball.
 
Not a terrible bounceback from Manoah. Ideally he doesn't give up that second HR but could be way worse.

His control is still all over the place though.
 
The Nemesis said:
Him being big has nothing to do with being an effective pitcher. he's also not "praying with power throws" when he's never been a power guy. His fastball is at or slightly below league average.

His biggest issue is that he's lost velo from last year, his slider has lost break from last year, and his performance last year was in part significantly backed by unsustainable luck (as well as benefits that have been lost with the shift ban) that was bound to normalize and hurt him.

He does have some things to sort out but it has less to do with losing weight and more about figuring out why the stuff that made him effective (aside from the BABIP luck and strand success) have regressed or deserted him this year. Maybe it's an injury. Maybe it's a mechanical adjustment. Hard to say at this point.
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Some time you have to be in shape to fix thing. You can only get so fat.
 
DFF said:
Some time you have to be in shape to fix thing. You can only get so fat.
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Can i introduce you to CC Sabathia? or David Wells? Bartolo Colon? Bartolo got fatter as he got older and got better until he had an arm issue.

His weight might be an issue but there's a much more glaring problem as nemesis said with his non-functional slider which likely is a mechanical issue rather than physical.
 
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kb said:
Based on what we see to this point, he's not wrong. Manoah has been uniformly bad in most of his 8 starts....it's not even like Berrios last season where it ping-ponged between awful and good.
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I never disagreed that he has been bad. I was disagreeing that there is some kind of defined pattern of him having a good season and a bad season. That just isn't true.
 
hot take; Manoah comes out of the rotation via either a phantom IR stint or assignment to the minors and you give Pearson one last shot at a starter gig.

Whatever the solution is, it's obvious trotting Manoah out constantly to get punched in the mouth isn't helping anybody. If he's getting blown up by the Yankees there isn't much more evidence you need. Let him get his mind right since his pitching is so charged by emotion.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
I never disagreed that he has been bad. I was disagreeing that there is some kind of defined pattern of him having a good season and a bad season. That just isn't true.
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What he said was that Manoah has not been the same since getting beat up by Seattle, and that's carried over to this season thus far.

I agree with that.
 
WTF Pete Walker, way to go telling the ump he's a joke and then he doesnt give you a close call on the check swing.
 
At this point I would keep him in for 7 innings.

Game is nearly out of reach, and they have 14 straight days with games. Just wave bye bye to this game and save the relievers.
 
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