Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v13 | **WILDCARD SERIES GAME 2** Wed, Oct 4 | @ Min | 4:30pm ET/1:30pm PT | Berrios vs Gray

[MSZ]

Teams who got more HRs in the season or in the game/series? Because that seems like common sense/logic if it’s the latter. If it’s the former we can look at a team like AZ who showed less power than the Jays (despite playing in a bandbox) hitting 3 HRs in their first postseason game.

In game.

This is exactly what I was just talking to my dad about.

Thank God that Kawhi Leonard was born. Or else this would be the darkest 30 years in any sports fan base's history.

Thank God the NBA didn't do anything about load management that year.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Teams who got more HRs in the season or in the game/series? Because that seems like common sense/logic if it’s the latter. If it’s the former we can look at a team like AZ who showed less power than the Jays (despite playing in a bandbox) hitting 3 HRs in their first postseason game.

Chase Field a bandbox? The humidor has been doing its job for a while

 

[Eyedea]

Chase Field a bandbox? The humidor has been doing its job for a while

Fair but they’ve also sucked for the years since it’s been put in. They also showed more power at home than on the road. Miller park or whatever it’s called now is easy enough to hit some pop fly dingers (though in Carroll/Moreno’s cases they were crushed).

 

[Puckstuff]

This team is probably going to win next game 8-3 or something and then lose game 3, 6-0. Hot and cold this team is.

I really think they made a mistake by throwing game 162 by using Parsons and bench players. I can understand resting your guys, but to me, facing Tampa without Franco, McClanahan or Rasmussen was preferable over the red hot Twins. I said this prior to today as well. They are going to regret this.

 

[Puckstuff]

Moreno with a home run for Zona tonight, in his first ever playoff game, batting 5th in the playoffs, coming off a 4.3 bWAR season and 5 bWAR over his first 126 games. He’s literally a beast and has 6 years of control. Just painful man, wow.

 

[saska sault]

I really think they made a mistake by throwing game 162 by using Parsons and bench players. I can understand resting your guys, but to me, facing Tampa without Franco, McClanahan or Rasmussen was preferable over the red hot Twins. I said this prior to today as well. They are going to regret this.

Score 1 run, you'll regret playing the Athletics most nights. Won't matter who they played if they swing like that again tomorrow.

 

[DFF]

They have 2 legit good bats in the lineup. One is having a bad year.

What do you expect?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I really think they made a mistake by throwing game 162 by using Parsons and bench players. I can understand resting your guys, but to me, facing Tampa without Franco, McClanahan or Rasmussen was preferable over the red hot Twins. I said this prior to today as well. They are going to regret this.

We were playing the Twins even if we won game 162. The out of town scores made that game literally meaningless.

 

[kb]

I really think they made a mistake by throwing game 162 by using Parsons and bench players. I can understand resting your guys, but to me, facing Tampa without Franco, McClanahan or Rasmussen was preferable over the red hot Twins. I said this prior to today as well. They are going to regret this.

You do understand win or lose that last game, because of the results of the other games, they were only getting WC3 no matter what.

 

[Nineteen67]

I heard if Gascano Romano enters the game tonight, that’s the cue for the demolition crew to detonate the lower section of dome.

 

[shaner8989]

Moreno with a home run for Zona tonight, in his first ever playoff game, batting 5th in the playoffs, coming off a 4.3 bWAR season and 5 bWAR over his first 126 games. He’s literally a beast and has 6 years of control. Just painful man, wow.

But but Varsho has a .354 WUYF rating since Aug. and and and he made a great turn around second base in game 97

I’ve been ripping this trade since day 1 and got bashed by many here.

THE TRADE WAS A COMPLETE f***ING JOKE.. FIRE EVERYONE

 

[Nineteen67]

But but Varsho has a .354 WUYF rating since Aug. and and and he made a great turn around second base in game 97

I’ve been ripping this trade since day 1 and got bashed by many here.

THE TRADE WAS A COMPLETE f***ING JOKE.. FIRE EVERYONE

You saw the team in February, yet you expect more on the field of play.

 

[Bjindaho]

This team reminds me of the Raptors from this year. Regardless of how they do, they tend to be an unenjoyable team to watch.

Gausman knows that Minny lays off his splitter and instead of throwing low fastballs to mess with them, he tries to throw high fastballs (knowing that a high fastball is easier to detect because he doesn't throw middle splitters).

The Jays lineup has become extemely top heavy despite having names beyond the first few hitters.

We have two of the best bunters in baseball, who simply don't bunt.

I don't care about home runs. The team can win or lose games without ever hitting the long ball. I care that most of the team change their approach with runners on-base. We have a hitting strategy coach yet our hitting strategy has been arguably the worst of any team in baseball.

Things could turn around. What I am asking for isn't that the team becomes like last year's team offensively. It is that when we get guys on-base, we don't have nearly every at-bat end in a K or a GIDP.

 

[Hellcat]

Didn't watch the game yesterday but knowing this years Jays they probably came up clutch at the right moment? Probably no base running errors? and scored at least 4 runs? GO JAYS GO!!!!

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Watching that Bo out again...I think you just gotta tip your hat to Correa, that was a phenomenal play by him.

Yeah. I suppose the only question is what made Bichette decide to blow through Rivera's stop sign. But I totally get why he took that chance -- that ball ended up in as awkward a fielding position you could find on a play like that, yet Correa somehow still corralled it and threw a strike to home. Even as a Jays fan, that was an impressive display of defence.

 

[Nineteen67]

Didn't watch the game yesterday but knowing this years Jays they probably came up clutch at the right moment? Probably no base running errors? and scored at least 4 runs? GO JAYS GO!!!!

When I see your Avatar I get a little sad because it’s the end of an era. Do you work at the assembly plant or just like the cars?

Id love to have a last call Challenger and kick myself for not getting one.

I still think they’ll make a comeback after we get over this electric nonsense.

 

[Kurtz]

Yeah. I suppose the only question is what made Bichette decide to blow through Rivera's stop sign. But I totally get why he took that chance -- that ball ended up in as awkward a fielding position you could find on a play like that, yet Correa somehow still corralled it and threw a strike to home. Even as a Jays fan, that was an impressive display of defence.

The analysts in the studio afterwards said that when a play happens in the infield, it's basically the runners call, Rivera is just an ornament in that situation. Rivera is only there to help guys when the ball is in the outfield and the runner can't see it.

 

[Eyedea]

But but Varsho has a .354 WUYF rating since Aug. and and and he made a great turn around second base in game 97

I’ve been ripping this trade since day 1 and got bashed by many here.

THE TRADE WAS A COMPLETE f***ING JOKE.. FIRE EVERYONE

Moreno with a home run for Zona tonight, in his first ever playoff game, batting 5th in the playoffs, coming off a 4.3 bWAR season and 5 bWAR over his first 126 games. He’s literally a beast and has 6 years of control. Just painful man, wow.

Fruitless comparison because

1. Varsho was worth 4 bWAR and 2 fWAR (negligible difference between him and Moreno)
2. Catchers will always play less games, and in turn receive significantly higher positional adjustment value compared to LFers
3. Varsho is arguably the best defensive CF in the game and would be worth significantly more once he takes over for KK
4. Moreno doesn't even hit for power. We're looking at an SSS of literally one game.
5. We already have Kirk catching who is one of the best catchers defensively and even despite his season's struggles he gets on base at a similar clip as Moreno (and was on base twice yesterday).
6. This discussion has been beaten to death.

To be honest the biggest mistake the Jays made was not find a suitable 4th OFer or even starting OFer that can mash. I think they took that Merrifield hot streak in July for granted and expected him to continue playing above average. Now he's barely worth using in pinch hit situations. If they added someone like Nootbaar/Yaz they could've used Schneider for a pinch hit situation in an early and critical part of the game, and then replace him for a similarly gifted defender with offensive capabilities (KK/Varsho/Yaz). As of now they can only expect Biggio/Whit to go to the OF which limits their chances for pinch hitting scenarios earlier on in the game.

 

[Kurtz]

Fruitless comparison because

1. Varsho was worth 4 bWAR and 2 fWAR (negligible difference between him and Moreno)
2. Catchers will always play less games, and in turn receive significantly higher positional adjustment value compared to LFers
3. Varsho is arguably the best defensive CF in the game and would be worth significantly more once he takes over for KK
4. Moreno doesn't even hit for power. We're looking at an SSS of literally one game.
5. We already have Kirk catching who is one of the best catchers defensively and even despite his season's struggles he gets on base at a similar clip as Moreno (and was on base twice yesterday).
6. This discussion has been beaten to death.

To be honest the biggest mistake the Jays made was not find a suitable 4th OFer or even starting OFer that can mash. I think they took that Merrifield hot streak in July for granted and expected him to continue playing above average. Now he's barely worth using in pinch hit situations. If they added someone like Nootbaar/Yaz they could've used Schneider for a pinch hit situation in an early and critical part of the game, and then replace him for a similarly gifted defender with offensive capabilities (KK/Varsho/Yaz). As of now they can only expect Biggio/Whit to go to the OF which limits their chances for pinch hitting scenarios earlier on in the game.

CF also get a positive positional adjustment. It's not difficult to accrue WAR at that position.

Twins have Varsho's clone, Michael Taylor, in CF and they did not give up a franchise catcher for him.

The Moreno deal is going to haunt us and Atkins for the next decade - there is no running away from it. The fact that Moreno leads the majors in defensive runs saved as a rookie catcher is insane.

I don't think the discussion has been beaten to death given the magnitude of the mistake, and its not an issue of hindsight either because the trade looked bad from day 1. But it'll be beaten to death eventually like the Michael Young trade was, because Moreno is just that good.

 

[GreytWun]

Jays can’t hit good pitching sure as water being wet. They haven’t won a playoff game at all in the last 2 post seasons now it looks like the same might happen again.

Changes need to be made if they get swept yet again.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Gotta give the Twins credit. They exhibited a lot of patience at the plate yesterday, laying off a bunch of Gausman's off-speed pitches, forcing his pitch count to inflate early.

 

[Hellcat]

When I see your Avatar I get a little sad because it’s the end of an era. Do you work at the assembly plant or just like the cars?

Id love to have a last call Challenger and kick myself for not getting one.

I still think they’ll make a comeback after we get over this electric nonsense.

I got a 392. I was strongly considering a Helly but Hellcats are just too powerful to drive comfortably on the streets, you chirp just turning the corner at a stop sign with very little pedal pressure. The 485hp I got is plenty fun ...

No comebacks, they are gone once this year is done. The govt will introduce a gas guzzler tax at the manufacturer level, sometime in the future that will make it virtually impossible to affordably own one.

Electric cars are unfortunately the bland way of the future, even with the power my car has I could never beat one off the line, 1/4 mile they would beat me, 1/2 mile I would beat most of them. I'm not a fan of electric cars but I see their purpose and they are the way of the future, even with all the disgusting environmental damage they create to dig up the lithium, and yes I get gas power has it's own demons when to comes to the environment, which seldom is brough up in the gas vs electric debate, they are still the way of the future.

 

[Eyedea]

CF also get a positive positional adjustment. It's not difficult to accrue WAR at that position.

Twins have Varsho's clone, Michael Taylor, in CF and they did not give up a franchise catcher for him.

The Moreno deal is going to haunt us and Atkins for the next decade - there is no running away from it. The fact that Moreno leads the majors in defensive runs saved as a rookie catcher is insane.

I don't think the discussion has been beaten to death given the magnitude of the mistake, and its not an issue of hindsight either because the trade looked bad from day 1. But it'll be beaten to death eventually like the Michael Young trade was, because Moreno is just that good.

Well yes, that's exactly why I said he'd present as being more valuable once in CF, a premium position. Michael Taylor's a ridiculous comp when Varsho has almost matched him in bWAR and fWAR despite playing less than half of his total games played.

Leading in DRS as a rookie catcher is great, until you notice that Kirk was 2nd and was more than a full win better than him in framing (something bWAR neglects in their dWAR). And before we rush into the robo ump thing it's not like Kirk isn't one of the best blockers in the game as well. He's a great defender too, make no mistake.

 

[GreytWun]

Blue Jays postseason offence since 2020

Runs Scored 13
Strikeouts 45
OPS .624
AVG w/RISP .189
Record 0-5

 

[Eyedea]

Blue Jays postseason offence since 2020

Runs Scored 13
Strikeouts 45
OPS .624
AVG w/RISP .189
Record 0-5

Postseason offence will always be pretty rough. Texas, Tampa, Philly, and Minny are top 10 offences and none of them scored more than 4 (and in the Rays case they got shutout).

That g2 last year should've been an easy win though. Think it made management go a little insane and try another way (pitching and defence).