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Blue Jays GDT: 2023 v11 | Wed, Sept 21 | @ NYY | 7:00pm ET/4:00pm PT | Berrios vs Cole

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shaner8989 said:
Out of the playoffs again. This team is trash. Top to bottom. Manager down. No heart. No pulse.

If it wasn’t for the rookies the season would already be over.
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Team needs new mgmt GM and mgr .. replace LF, 3B, C and 2 starting pitchers .. put Kirk, Manoah and Vlady in a fat farm over fall an winter so they can be taught about nutrition and proper diets
 
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Blue Jays management put their faith in 3 overweight players, and a washed up injury prone cheater.
 
Texas is 22-20 against Baltimore, Houston, Seattle, TB, Toronto, and Minny, Seattle is 20-21. Why are the Jays so below .500 against those same teams? It’s unacceptable. Toronto, Texas, Seattle are all within 0.5 games of each other.
 
Kurtz said:
Calling Whit an all-star is as fatuous as calling Espinal one. The facts have been laid out for you - Whit has been ice cold for a month and a half, he's hurt and he's never hit power pitchers well, let alone this year. What you're countering with is pure conjecture that's unprovable.

Given all of the facts in front of us, it was a terrible decision, and conjecturing that better, more experienced managers would have made the same mistake is not a counter-argument that absolves Schneider.

As Seath mentioned - if a better pinch hitter was available and used, the move would have been easier to rationalize.
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Whit is a 3x All Star and career .285 hitter. How is that comparable to Espinal?
 
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I would like the Jays to get rid of Manoah, Kirk and Guerrero just to change the culture on the team. They need to emphasize physical fitness and readiness to play, which will always be a losing battle with these three. Trade them all for whatever they can get.
 
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Ciao said:
I would like the Jays to get rid of Manoah, Kirk and Guerrero just to change the culture on the team. They need to emphasize physical fitness and readiness to play, which will always be a losing battle with these three. Trade them all for whatever they can get.
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Manoah and Kirk maybe, but definitely not Vlad
 
I would like the Jays to keep all of the pitching staff that's already under team control for next season, except for Manoah; to keep Jansen, Schneider, Biggio, Bichette, Varsho and Springer; and to re-sign Kiermaier.

Call me crazy, but I value the outfield defence that Varsho and Kiermaier provide. Along with Chapman and Bichette, I think it makes the pitching staff a lot more effective. Hitting and pitching comes and goes, but speed and defence almost always work.

I wouldn't mind too much if the Jays could come to terms with Ryu, Chapman and Merrifield, but I wouldn't try too hard as they could soon be pushed out by younger, better players.

Other than the pitching staff, the rest of the roster is dispensable. There aren't really any difference-makers among them, and any of them could be used to fill holes that need filling -- like a first-baseman and a power-hitting DH.
 
jetsforever said:
Manoah and Kirk maybe, but definitely not Vlad
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Vladdy is an overweight, out-of-shape 24 year-old. His lack of conditioning is already affecting his play, and I don't see things getting any better for him on a consistent basis -- unless he makes the kind of commitment to personal fitness that he needs to be a productive athlete for years to come. It's hard to imagine him doing that.

I think it's time to sell high on Vladdy, because I don't think things get any better.

Kirk is an obese 24 year-old who probably already has metabolic syndrome.

Manoah probably just doesn't have the discipline and tools to take control of his health and wellness, and is unlikely to repeat his good seasons.
 
I continue to find it absolutely baffling when people lump Guerrero in with Manoah and Kirk.

Yeah, the latter two guys are fat and have beer guts hanging over their uniforms. Guerrero is nothing like this. He won a Gold Glove last year. He steals bases. He does superman slides. He's a 'big guy' but it's just how he's built and he's an athletic player on the field and doesn't have a gut or anything like the other two guys.

His struggles are mental (seems to overthink and press too hard and swing at pitches he shouldn't) and technical (rolling over on those outside pitches he shouldn't be swinging at). It isn't because he's 'fat'.
 
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MS said:
I continue to find it absolutely baffling when people lump Guerrero in with Manoah and Kirk.

Yeah, the latter two guys are fat and have beer guts hanging over their uniforms. Guerrero is nothing like this. He won a Gold Glove last year. He steals bases. He does superman slides. He's a 'big guy' but it's just how he's built and he's an athletic player on the field and doesn't have a gut or anything like the other two guys.

His struggles are mental (seems to overthink and press too hard and swing at pitches he shouldn't) and technical (rolling over on those outside pitches he shouldn't be swinging at). It isn't because he's 'fat'.
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Agreed it is a weird narrative that follows him from when he broke into the league. The ironic thing is Vlad’s bat seemed to play best when he actually was that heavier player lol.
 
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HockeyThoughts said:
Whit is a 3x All Star and career .285 hitter. How is that comparable to Espinal?
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Whit is 34, hurt, and has OPSed around .550 since July. He has struggled against power pitchers his entire career, especially so this season. His former all-star status is no more relevant at the present moment than Espinal's.

You may personally value his former all-star appearances, but note that the baseball world did not, else KC would have been able to get a better return when they dealt him, for example.
 
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MS said:
The 'ice cold since July' stuff is nonsense.

He had a .781 OPS on July 31. He still had a .781 OPS on August 15. He then had a 10-game slump between August 16-27 where he went 5-42. It happens. Every player has a couple of these runs every year. Then he appeared to have played himself out of it and went 9-26 in the Washington/Colorado series with a hit in every game. Then he had a very bad series against Oakland.

Horwitz can't even hit lefties in AAA, much less Aroldis f'ing Chapman in MLB. You can keep arguing until you're blue in the face, but no manager in MLB is letting Horwitz get high-leverage ABs against LHP with a veteran multi-time RH AS on the bench, even if that veteran is in a bit of a slump. It's an absurd thing to get furiously angry about.

In the end, it's one of those things that's a total nothingburger. Neither of those guys was probably going to get a hit off Chapman, and anyone who has watched sports for more than a week should understand that every manager in the history of sport is going to live/die with his trusted veterans.
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You've restated the same argument now several times, and it has been refuted several times, there's no use restating it. The part about managers trusting vets over young guys is generally accurate in all sports, but it does not make it a justifiable decision. Schneider is not the first nor the last manager to be accurately critiqued for playing the struggling vet over a hot rookie.

Suggesting that Merrifield is not ice cold however is new and also categorically false when he has an OPS of .580 in August and .499 in September. That part is quite black and white.

MS said:
I continue to find it absolutely baffling when people lump Guerrero in with Manoah and Kirk.

Yeah, the latter two guys are fat and have beer guts hanging over their uniforms. Guerrero is nothing like this. He won a Gold Glove last year. He steals bases. He does superman slides. He's a 'big guy' but it's just how he's built and he's an athletic player on the field and doesn't have a gut or anything like the other two guys.

His struggles are mental (seems to overthink and press too hard and swing at pitches he shouldn't) and technical (rolling over on those outside pitches he shouldn't be swinging at). It isn't because he's 'fat'.
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Vlad has complained in the past that he got tired towards the end of the regular season. But he's probably in better shape now than he was back then.

He also jogs to first constantly, which may be construed as a fitness issue but is more likely an attitude issue. Would be great if Schneider corrected it.
 
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Looks like the Mariners had an early game and beat the A's, so they are 0.5 games ahead now.
 
Kurtz said:
You've restated the same argument now several times, and it has been refuted several times, there's no use restating it. The part about managers trusting vets over young guys is generally accurate in all sports, but it does not make it a justifiable decision. Schneider is not the first nor the last manager to be accurately critiqued for playing the struggling vet over a hot rookie.

Suggesting that Merrifield is not ice cold however is new and also categorically false when he has an OPS of .580 in August and .499 in September. That part is quite black and white.



Vlad has complained in the past that he got tired towards the end of the regular season. But he's probably in better shape now than he was back then.

He also jogs to first constantly, which may be construed as a fitness issue but is more likely an attitude issue. Would be great if Schneider corrected it.
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When you have a .781 OPS on July 31 and you still have a .781 OPS on August 15, you haven't been slumping 'since July'. This pretty fundamental stuff.

The fact that a guy who can't hit LHP in AAA isn't going to get high-leverage ABs against Aroldis Chapman in MLB is also pretty fundamental stuff.

No disagreement that the jogging to 1st stuff is getting worse for Guerrero and needs to be corrected.
 
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