Boston Bruins 2023 Training Camp II

[Guelph Bruin]

I hope Potus puts the presidential seal on 40 points this season, that will be an accomplishment if he survives the 9 day tryout. I think he can do it as a third line centre with some PP2 time.

 

[hrdpuk]

To deter cheap shots the management and players association would have to get their act together .
Never going to happen.
making rules that punish the offender to the level necessary to deter those actions is not in their DNA.

 

[wintersej]

Again. There is no way to prove that having tough guys didn’t prevent Savard or Bergeron from taking more dirty hits than they did.

I mean, even the consequence of death doesn’t prevent murder from happening, but laws do prevent some crimes.

I‘ll be the first one to admit that I’d probably drive 95-100 MPH, if it weren’t for speeding laws and more importantly (to me) the fines and insurance fees that come with it.

This is one of those situations where I’m not going to argue with those who play the game at a level I could only dream of.

I hear ya, it always makes these conversations circular. I put my flag in the ground when I saw the study that showed teams that had more fighting majors had more non-fighting major penalties committed against them with a “violence begets violence” theory behind it, but I know we could sit and poke holes in that thesis all day, too.

I think we can all agree we want the Bruins to be the hammer instead of the nail more and that we wish we saw less turn the other cheek on the roster.

Edit: I do think the law/cops analogies are super bad though. The law/cops are the men in stripes and the league doing fines/suspensions. Fighting as a deterrent is like vigilante justice.

 

[mikelvl]

I'm not averse to Lohrei playing 25-30 minutes a night in Providence until an injury or a trade takes place.

 

[Ladyfan]

Don’t want to start a huge debate on the issue and I truly don’t care about differing opinions on the subject, but I’ll say this…

I am far more comfortable with Poitras making it with Lucic here, than I would be if he wasn’t.

I agree, except as we all know you cannot stop all of the dirty hits.

I am a bit concerned about Poitras as he is so young but do want him here .

I hope he lives with some other responsible player (he said he can't cook) until he is older and knows his way around better. Who should he live with???

I wish AJ all the best (except against the Bs).

 

[HumBucker]

I think the best we can say is that the presence of enforcers MAY deter cheap shots in most circumstances for many players. But it is certainly no guarantee to deter it from happening.

 

[Over the volcano]

But I'm not claiming there is proof of deterrence. I'm arguing the opposite.

Look, there are two factors here: X and Y.
X = the presence of enforcers
Y = star players (or skilled rookies in this case) getting hit or run at.

The argument that's often made is that X results in the deterrence of Y.
That is, in fact, what is logically impossible to prove. If there is no occurrence of Y, can we conclude that it's because of X? Maybe, but it could also be because of other factors as well. Now, obviously it might be true in some cases, but we don't know.

What we DO know - what we have evidence of – is that Y does sometimes occur even in the presence of X. Star players have been hit hard, hit from behind, and run at, even when there are highly feared enforcers there to retaliate. But their presence deterred nothing in these cases.

It's like if I claimed that when I wear my red shoes, it deters rain.
Monday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!
Tuesday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!
Wednesday: I wear the red shoes. No rain!

Proof, you say, that the red shoes deter rain!

Thursday, I wear the red shoes. It rains.
The "red shoes as a rain deterrent" argument is washed away.


...which is a response, not a deterrence.

Right - you're asking people to prove a negative, to show the cheap shots that didn't happen. It's impossible, but that doesn't mean the opposite argument is true. Skinner claimed people shouldn't believe in free will because we can't test and prove it, but we can test and prove rewards and punishments control behavior, so that's all we should believe. It's faulty logic.

But I'm not getting into a "do enforcers help" thing here and I don't thing anyone wants to read all that nonsense anyway

 

[Ladyfan]

Cant take this guy seriously in believing he's any type of leader other than a goal scoring one

We (@GahdenRinkRat and I) saw him developing leadership skills the last couple of years. He speaks up to the players, coaches and refs and helps set up some of the plays.

There is a reason he wore the "A" pretty much all of last season.

 

[sarge88]

I think the best we can say is that the presence of enforcers MAY deter cheap shots in most circumstances for many players. But it is certainly no guarantee to deter it from happening.

Agreed.

 

[hrdpuk]

I agree, except as we all know you cannot stop all of the dirty hits.

I am a bit concerned about Poitras as he is so young but do want him here .

I hope he lives with some other responsible player (he said he can't cook) until he is older and knows his way around better. Who should he live with???


I wish AJ all the best (except against the Bs).

Some women from the NHL women's league that likes to cook.

 

[wintersej]

I hope he lives with some other responsible player (he said he can't cook) until he is older and knows his way around better. Who should he live with???

We just have to convince the Bergeron’s they have a 5th older child some night when we new baby has them sleep deprived.

 

[Ladyfan]

I hope it deters anyone from taking a run at Poitras, or lining him up for an open-ice hit, but when has it ever been a real deterrent? Having Looch, Chara, Thornton, McQuaid etc. on the team did not help Bergeron or Savard from getting hit.

True. Guys will need to keep their heads up.

However...matt cooke was the WORST. He always would cheap shot players who were far better players than he would ever have been. There was a large list of cooke "accidents". Most here know how much I hated him. The Bruins knew too. Looch hated cooke.

When Bergy got nailed...it was the f***ing Flyers of course. He was so young. That was the worst thing that happened at any game I ever went to (and I have been to many). Fans were crying and praying. It seemed like he was laying there on the ice for so long.

You cannot stop all of those cheap plays but having Looch can't hurt to have on the team. In 2011 there were so many tough guys...I miss that.

 

[Over the volcano]

I think the best we can say is that the presence of enforcers MAY deter cheap shots in most circumstances for many players. But it is certainly no guarantee to deter it from happening.

No, it does deter. But deterrence by definition doesn't mean eliminating all.

 

[Ladyfan]

My answer to this is always the same.

We’ll never know for sure unless someone comes clean and says: “ I had the kid lined up and was going to elbow him in the head from his blind side, but I knew Lucic was on the ice and I didn‘t want to get my head bashed in, so I peeled off”.

I already told this story...This actually did happen the last year Looch was here. He was playing with Spooner and a very young Pasta. A player on the other team lined up Pasta to nail and Looch skated in front of him and said "not today" and the player (forgot who or what team it was) decided to not hit Pasta. It was right in front of us.

I get that this doesn't happen all of the time but I don't there are too many players who want to have to deal with a pissed off Looch.

 

[Ladyfan]

Who do you suggest?

Guessing a married guy with kids is the best option.

Do they have any on the team?

lol

Not sure. Someone who is responsible. Maybe he has established some chemistry with a player at camp?

Do you think it is a good idea?

 

[HumBucker]

Right - you're asking people to prove a negative, to show the cheap shots that didn't happen. It's impossible, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Skinner claimed people shouldn't believe in free will because we can't trays and prove it, but we can test and prove rewards and punishments control behavior, so that's all we should believe. It's faulty logic.

But I'm not getting into a "do enforcers help" thing here and I don't thing anyone wants to read all that nonsense anyway

No, I'm not asking people to prove a negative. I'm pointing to a "positive": actual, documented observational evidence of cheap shots happening, despite the presence of enforcers.

It's like someone's arguing that having garlic nearby prevents vampires from attacking them. I'm saying, then how do you explain that vampire right there chomping into your neck.

 

[HumBucker]

No, it does deter. But deterrence by definition doesn't mean eliminating all.

To discourage or prevent.

 

[Over the volcano]

No, I'm not asking people to prove a negative. I'm pointing to a "positive": actual, documented observational evidence of cheap shots happening, despite the presence of enforcers.

It's like someone's arguing that having garlic nearby prevents vampires from attacking them. I'm saying, then how do you explain that vampire right there chomping into your neck.

No one has ever claimed that fighting eliminates all cheap shots.

I'll ignore for a while

 

[sarge88]

Not sure. Someone who is responsible. Maybe he has established some chemistry with a player at camp?

Do you think it is a good idea?

Definitely.

Bergeron still talks about how important Lapointe was to his development.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

I agree, except as we all know you cannot stop all of the dirty hits.

I am a bit concerned about Poitras as he is so young but do want him here .

I hope he lives with some other responsible player (he said he can't cook) until he is older and knows his way around better. Who should he live with???


I wish AJ all the best (except against the Bs).

This is true, but this is also true in Junior and in the AHL (and i know he is not AHL eligible). Kids get concussed at all levels of hockey. Dirt hits happen at all levels, whether with intent to injure, or just plain sloppiness.

 

[mar2kbos]

Coyle has 3 years left on his contract, counting this year.

They may not need any top centers if Zacha and Poitras get the job done this year. They can sign Hanifin, and Sweeney's already negotiating with Jake's reps.

Man 3 years left, feels like he has been on the team for 10.

Yeah Zacha has a lot to prove, he’s got to go from complimentary piece to a line driver while being defensive responsible center. Preseason really didn’t show me anything from him but he’s got a year to prove a capable number 1.

 

[bruinsfan1968]

This is true, but this is also true in Junior and in the AHL (and i know he is not AHL eligible). Kids get concussed at all levels of hockey. Dirt hits happen at all levels, whether with intent to injure, or just plain sloppiness.

The NHL can do more than they are currently doing about dirty hits and/or high hits by having higher fines and longer suspensions.
Also they need to hold all players accountable, not just cherry pick them.
No one is immune, from punishment!.

 

[mar2kbos]

I don't doubt it makes them feel more comfortable, but does that actually make the team better? If your enforcer is a useless hockey player, I don't think so.

I'm not sure having a couple of enforcer types prevents anything. Certainly didn't help Savard or Bergeron over the years and Chara + Lucic was those most intimidating duo in the league by far. It's not like anyone is obligated to actually throw with someone like Lucic who is way out of their weight class.

I think most would agree that the Bruins are way way way too often the nail instead of the hammer. And I would LOVE to get more of that pack dog mentality back on the team. But, I don't think it actually prevents much of anything... but it does mean that at least the other team is getting bumps and bruises, too.

Yeah you can’t be we got one tough guy so that should stop bad hits. Habs tried that with Laraque (probably butchered that spelling) and we still ran them over. You need a lot more players with the I’ll go when it’s necessary and protect teammates like a rabid dog mentality. This team isn’t that. They are more the just ignore, be professional and play the right way and the rest will sort out. It’s been decent but the rabid mentality of the 2011 team got us the cup. Not sure this new approach will work, but they have been good, just no cup.

 

[Ladyfan]

Some women from the NHL women's league that likes to cook.

I think it should be a player on the Bs. We don't know how long he will be here.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

We (@GahdenRinkRat and I) saw him developing leadership skills the last couple of years. He speaks up to the players, coaches and refs and helps set up some of the plays.

There is a reason he wore the "A" pretty much all of last season.

I realize this, just not a fan of the many gaffs and lazy plays on the ice. Offensive juggernaut he is.