GDT: 2023 Trade Deadline

[devilsblood]

Holtz is still a very good prospect. His skating is fine and that take is sort of played out tbh. What he needs to improve is the way he processes the game with and without the puck at the NHL level.

How will he improve that? With experience and playing time.

If below average is fine, then sure.

He's legit the slowest fwd on our current roster.

 

[Mgd31]

Classic Rangers Herman

 

[Devs3cups]

But why is he playing as little as he is? It's not like this staff has been reluctant to play young players.

He isn't playing because he isn't succeeding in a position where he has very little odds of being successful. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Hiding him here all year probably didn't help vis-a-vis how other teams perceive Holtz, he may well have more value if he was tearing it up in the AHL most of the year instead of eating hot dogs in the scratch box here.

I think it hurt his perception to fans which Idgaf

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I haven’t felt this much doom about a trade since we made the Schneider trade. Meier is fine for a cup run, but I don’t like the long-term implications of this if it costs us Bratt or Mercer down the road.

Meier is a wildly inconsistent player. His 23 and 24 year old seasons he regressed off his 22 year old season. Last year, he put up 40% of his goals in just 6 games. As a whole, the last two seasons that he's been productive, scoring has been up in the league and someone has to produce on bad teams given prime minutes.

While he is what the doctor ordered for help on the interior, I just don’t think it costs that much to fill that need- both in assets and cap space. Also, Meier is not going to age well. He’s a pretty sluggish skater at 26. This is the makings to be a Lucic esque contract… a heavy player brought in to provide some scoring touch/power for a young Connor McDavid, but dropped off a cliff at 29/30 years of age.

I also just don’t like the boat load of lefties the team will have, considering two of our right handed shooters (Zetterlund and Holtz), with both arguably having shots on par with Meier’s, may go the other way.

Comparing Timo to Lucic is pretty insane.

 

[glenwo2]

Hiding him here all year probably didn't help vis-a-vis how other teams perceive Holtz, he may well have more value if he was tearing it up in the AHL most of the year instead of eating hot dogs in the scratch box here.

Hopefully they weren't the $1 hotdog variety. lol

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

To my Finnish friends, I’m about to crack open a Long Drink and compre the colors of life in my HF world vs the rest of my daily life. The reds seem fuller some how.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Who is down playing him? San Jose is getting a really good piece

People in this thread lol.

He’s lost his shine and has struggled. Every team may see it differently but there are very reasonable concerns with his skating that could hold him back. It’s not just that he hasn’t taken off yet.

I wouldn’t say a team should see him in the way you’re describing. Some may see that way others may not be as high on him. Where would he realistically go in a redraft?

But why is he playing as little as he is? It's not like this staff has been reluctant to play young players.

To say he's lost his shine is really unfair. And a redraft? It's far too early to even speak in that type of sense. He's 1 of only 21 players to play 20 or more games from that draft to this point. His whopping 3 goals is 16th in his draft class.

I think that people need to pump the brakes on reaching conclusions on a player so quickly when he's clearly been jerked around in his usage this year. Say what you will but he really hasn't gotten a serious shake with the top 6 and that is what his skillset is suited for. Fair or not, it's the truth.

 

[Devs3cups]

If below average is fine, then sure.

He's legit the slowest fwd on our current roster.

His skating is average at worst. I see it as a hair above average. That also doesn't mean much as to the rest of the league, our team is pretty much 100% built on speed.

 

[GeNeXt]

Comparing Timo to Lucic is pretty insane.

Timo does move better overall and has better hands, but I think he is sluggish and roughly the same size/build. Production wise early in their career, Lucic was much better

 

[Offseason Champs]

I love armchair skating experts

 

[devilsblood]

Except people were talking up Casey as the next big thing a month ago here, so it might be a bigger package than you think.

Ya, everyone has different opinions.

I'm just stating mine. And again, we are talking about acquiring a 26 year old with 66 goals and counting over the last 2 years. I'm not throwing these guys away.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[Forge]

Timo does move better overall and has better hands, but I think he is sluggish and roughly the same size/build. Production wise early in their career, Lucic was much better

Lucic is just a much bigger dude overall than Meier.

 

[Triumph]

Hiding him here all year probably didn't help vis-a-vis how other teams perceive Holtz, he may well have more value if he was tearing it up in the AHL most of the year instead of eating hot dogs in the scratch box here.

Don't think that makes a difference one way or another. A former 7th overall pick languishing in the minors in his D+3 is going to be losing value no matter what he's doing there.

 

[glenwo2]

 

[Better Call Sal]

While we're on the subject of the 2020 draft class, let us all congratulate the Dawson on surpassing Lafreniere in points last night in 52 less games.

2020 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2020 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Timo does move better overall and has better hands, but I think he is sluggish and roughly the same size/build. Production wise early in their career, Lucic was much better

He’s one of the best players in the league.

 

[devilsblood]

His skating is average at worst. I see it as a hair above average. That also doesn't mean much as to the rest of the league, our team is pretty much 100% built on speed.

Definitely below average. Compare him to our own fwd's. A 30 something year old Haula is a better skater. Our 4th line center is a much better skater.

A guy like Wood is not a good skater, but his speed still makes him a better skater then Holtz.

 

[Hisch13r]

While we're on the subject of the 2020 draft class, let us all congratulate the Dawson on surpassing Lafreniere in points last night in 52 less games.

2020 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2020 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

They've gotten similar wacky usage too. They even have basically the exact same PP ice time this season.

 

[Forge]

While we're on the subject of the 2020 draft class, let us all congratulate the Dawson on surpassing Lafreniere in points last night in 52 less games.

2020 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

A sortable list of players drafted in the 2020 NHL Entry draft, including their career scoring after being drafted

www.hockeydb.com

Laf is weirdly close to Yakupov. Before last night, they were both at 192 games, I believe and their numbers were startlingly similar.

The good thing for the Rangers is that Yakupov basically started at his peak and then trended down. Laf has seen some improvement, each year.

 

[devilsblood]

He isn't playing because he isn't succeeding in a position where he has very little odds of being successful. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So put a guy who has the worst #'s on the team on the top line because he's a high pick? And pull Bratt off the top unit PP while we are at it.

 

[Devil X]

Regarding losing a player like Bratt if we sign Meier, I think the Devils will still try and keep Bratt but if this summer starts like last summer they will move on and trade him. He should bring back a similar package to the one we are trading away from Meier or better.

But those are bridges you cross when you come to them.

 

[RememberTheName]

If below average is fine, then sure.

He's legit the slowest fwd on our current roster.

The thing about Holtz is that he is an average-slightly above average skater that always looks like a below average skater because his brain can't keep up with the pace of play. I've seen times where Holtz explodes up the ice way faster than you'd expect from him like once every 3 or 4 games, but it rarely happens. Because he can't think the game fast enough, he is constantly slowing himself down to analyze situations and the play on the ice, something that most players kind of just do as they are moving around naturally. I'd basically call him the guy that is always one or two passes behind the rest of the play. It's why whenever he got time up with the Devils, he always just looks lost out there, and its really because he is just lost out there. Can't think the game at a high enough level to play with the big dogs. If his brain could think the game at the level of an average NHL player, he would be in the NHL right now playing next to Jack Hughes, but I honestly don't know if he will ever be able to think the game at a high enough level to achieve that. All the tools in the world but no toolbox.

 

[EnglishDevil]

I personally think Holtz is a good player but a bad fit for our NHL system, we rely way too much on speed and fast transition play.

He'll be an NHL regular somewhere thanks to his shot alone, if you put him on a team that plays a slightly heavier game, setting up in the offensive zone and cycling the puck, I think he's a lock to be a 25-30 goal guy if he's getting powerplay time.

He's never going to be super dynamic, we knew that when we drafted him. At this point I expect his ceiling to be similar to Mike Hoffman, still a useful piece but not a star player.