Transfer: 2023 Summer Transfer Window - Open Window Edition

[Evilo]

He settled out-of-court with the family. That's extremely common. How is that a 'bribe'?

Again, not sure what point you think you're making. It seems that you're trying to get me in some dumbass gotcha moment when I've already said that I wouldn't play him. And also I think that morally what Greenwood did was worse/I'd be less inclined to forgive it (as in not at all).

Do you have anything else you want to add or are you done? I don't think the incidents are equals and I never downplayed Harit's incident. So what exactly are you getting at?

They're not equal indeed, someone actually died.
And Harit had his 14 year old brother drive. And then lied.

Anyway, indeed, it wasn't the point I was asking. I was just poitning the hypocrisy of your answer.

I don't think it's a question of time but of what he does to show that that was either out-of-character for him, or that he's genuinely remorseful and has worked hard to change. For some people it'll take time even if he was a deeply changed man who did everything he could to prevent anyone else from experiencing what his gf did, and some will never forgive him no matter what, but the onus is on him to show he's earned a second chance.

I hear that but I don't think this is how our current society works tbh. Remorse or not, some people are getting cancelled from public life and I don't like it. As shitty as those are.

The respect was that he wanted to stay.


I think what you're seeing from the EPL is ambition where everyone thinks they can win. You can't say that about other countries.

He wanted to stay? No idea what you're saying.

No, it all has to do with financial means and stupid overpayments. No doubt EPL are ruling those two.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

They're not equal indeed, someone actually died.

There's the kind of answer I'd come to expect from someone who has zero capacity for nuance.

There's zero hypocrisy there. Please point it out the hypocrisy in my:

- Saying that Harit shouldn't have played.
- That I don't think it reflects well on the federation.

That I think intent matters and that this makes Greenwood's situation less forgivable doesn't make me a hypocrite. It's a judgement call that I believe in based on what we know about the case.

 

[Evilo]

The hypocrisy is saying you can't "forgive" United, and yet you can "forgive" Morocco.
Harit intended to give his sports car to his 14 year old bro. He intended to flee from the scene leaving the injured victim to die. He intended to escape punishment with a big fat check. I think that's a lot of bad intent myself.

But again, I shouldn't have brought it up, that hypocrisy isn't interesting to me, and really not new.

I'm more interested in the serious conversation about Greenwood and more generally athletes being cancelled because of bad actions, and sometimes, even actions they've been judged as not guilty (B. Mendy).

 

[phisherman]

The hypocrisy is saying you can't "forgive" United, and yet you can "forgive" Morocco.
Harit intended to give his sports car to his 14 year old bro. He intended to flee from the scene leaving the injured victim to die. He intended to escape punishment with a big fat check. I think that's a lot of bad intent myself.

But again, I shouldn't have brought it up, that hypocrisy isn't interesting to me, and really not new.

I'm more interested in the serious conversation about Greenwood and more generally athletes being cancelled because of bad actions, and sometimes, even actions they've been judged as not guilty (B. Mendy).

It gets forgotten when there's no more social credit to be earned on being outraged by it or if they help the team win a major trophy.

 

[S E P H]

Arsenal has a 17.5% sell-on clause for Balgoun.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The hypocrisy is saying you can't "forgive" United, and yet you can "forgive" Morocco.
Harit intended to give his sports car to his 14 year old bro. He intended to flee from the scene leaving the injured victim to die. He intended to escape punishment with a big fat check. I think that's a lot of bad intent myself.

But again, I shouldn't have brought it up, that hypocrisy isn't interesting to me, and really not new.

I'm more interested in the serious conversation about Greenwood and more generally athletes being cancelled because of bad actions, and sometimes, even actions they've been judged as not guilty (B. Mendy).

I don't think you understand what hypocrisy is.

My point is quite simple: I don't agree with Morocco's decision towards Harit and I also think that Harit's situation was not as unforgivable as Greenwood's (let alone how Manchester United went about it in such a coward's fashion. I'd have respected it a lot more if they said based on what we know, this is the call we're making even if I think it'd have been wrong).

Cry about him settling with the family all you want, that he let his brother drive his Mercedes was dumb but it's not malicious. That he panicked and tried to flee on foot (apparently sobbing) is pathetic and wrong. But I think raping and beating a woman is worse from a moral perspective because that's direct intent to inflict harm, even if a man unfortunately lost his life in the former incident. Greenwood is a sociopath. I don't think one can make the same judgement when it comes to Harit.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I mean, Harit's decisions led to someone being killed. I don't think he should be treated any different than someone like Marcos Alonso, but that to me is on par or worse than Greenwood.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I mean, Harit's decisions led to someone being killed. I don't think he should be treated any different than someone like Marcos Alonso, but that to me is on par or worse than Greenwood.

There was no alcohol involved in Harit's case but even in the case of a DUI leading to death, I'd be more willing to forgive someone like Alonso than Greenwood.

The end result is worse in both Harit and Alonso's cases (and I repeat, I don't think Harit should be playing either) but in terms of the greater moral mistake, I'd put Greenwood ahead of both without a doubt.

I can see myself forgiving the individual in both their cases before Greenwood's.

Someone carelessly dropping a brick from a window can lead to someone being killed too but I wouldn't put them on the level of a rapist.

 

[cgf]

I hear that but I don't think this is how our current society works tbh. Remorse or not, some people are getting cancelled from public life and I don't like it. As shitty as those are.

Getting paid 6 figures in Italy to play a game is not anywhere near as bad as what he did. Some people will never forgive him, but even handling things as poorly as he has he still has an offer from Lazio. So even Greenwood hasn’t gotten cancelled.

 

[Evilo]

So VanDeBeek snobed Lorient and didn't even want to answer to their loan proposal earlier this window.
Then, because he had no decent lead, his agents phoned Lorient at 10PM friday. Lorient loaughed.

Getting paid 6 figures in Italy to play a game is not anywhere near as bad as what he did. Some people will never forgive him, but even handling things as poorly as he has he still has an offer from Lazio. So even Greenwood hasn’t gotten cancelled.

Getafe in Spain.
But I'm talking about people here on HFB, on socials, in stadiums, etc...
Greenwood is a piece of shit, there's zero doubt. Apparently, Zouma is too and nobody knew about it until his instagram story.
Benjamin Mendy is cleared of charges and people don't want him in Lorient.

I think this is not an easy question to answer. When can/should people move on?

 

[Savant]

So VanDeBeek snobed Lorient and didn't even want to answer to their loan proposal earlier this window.
Then, because he had no decent lead, his agents phoned Lorient at 10PM friday. Lorient loaughed.


Getafe in Spain.
But I'm talking about people here on HFB, on socials, in stadiums, etc...
Greenwood is a piece of shit, there's zero doubt. Apparently, Zouma is too and nobody knew about it until his instagram story.
Benjamin Mendy is cleared of charges and people don't want him in Lorient.

I think this is not an easy question to answer. When can/should people move on?

After their prison sentence is over

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I don’t know how many times it needs to be pointed out that not guilty does not equal innocent, but I guess at least one more.

 

[Venkman]

Random transfer of the window. Andy Carroll terminates his contract with Reading to sign for Amiens in Ligue 2. Good news for the local bars and clubs.

 

[East Coast Bias]

It gets forgotten when there's no more social credit to be earned on being outraged by it or if they help the team win a major trophy.

The fact you think people only have issues with this as some sort of social media clout chasing is pretty strange. As if people can only take stances when it’s convenient or opportunistic for them. You’ve made this comment multiple times in multiple situations. It’s a pretty sad way to live.

 

[Evilo]

People making up arguments by themselves is fun. Must be some kind of mental problem.
I don't think anyone who says cleared of charges equals innocent....

 

[Savant]

Man I am glad I have someone on ignore

 

[Evilo]

Man I am glad I have someone on ignore

Some people should be on everyone's.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don’t know how many times it needs to be pointed out that not guilty does not equal innocent, but I guess at least one more.

A court doesn't declare someone innocent though, so this argument basically means those accused never get to move on in the eyes of some. I think it's pretty clear that we as a society are very selective with those that we decide to move on from and those that we determine need extra punishment.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Funny, I’m here thinking the one guy that made a big song and dance of announcing I made the list only to come find out he can’t stay away.

Comme c'est drôle.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

A court doesn't declare someone innocent though, so this argument basically means those accused never get to move on in the eyes of some. I think it's pretty clear that we as a society are very selective with those that we decide to move on from and those that we determine need extra punishment.

Right, but we obviously know based on irrefutable video evidence what Greenwood did regardless of ultimate justice in the court of law. I don’t need to look to the court for any validation for how I should feel about him.

And I take the same position on Mendy. Sexual assaults are notoriously difficult prosecutions and given how many accusations from so many different women, sorry, but I know where I stand on his culpability.

 

[Live in the Now]

Man I am glad I have someone on ignore

Yeah kinda wish I knew who it was in this case

 

[cgf]

So VanDeBeek snobed Lorient and didn't even want to answer to their loan proposal earlier this window.
Then, because he had no decent lead, his agents phoned Lorient at 10PM friday. Lorient loaughed.


Getafe in Spain.
But I'm talking about people here on HFB, on socials, in stadiums, etc...
Greenwood is a piece of shit, there's zero doubt. Apparently, Zouma is too and nobody knew about it until his instagram story.
Benjamin Mendy is cleared of charges and people don't want him in Lorient.

I think this is not an easy question to answer. When can/should people move on?

It’s not an easy question because the answer will vary from person to person and some will never forgive him. That’s the price for doing something that should be unforgivable because it is inexcusable.

And I’m in the same boat. 8 years ago I beat my ex really badly. I’ve not hit a woman in anger before or since, and I’ve worked on myself a lot to make sure I was not the kind of man that could do that again…but I can’t get upset at anyone who will never forgive me for that night.

I might feel that it’s closed minded of them to prejudge me based on who I was at my absolute worst, but it’s not an unfair position for them to take.


But that’s still not being cancelled and completely deplatformed. He hasn’t been hounded into a different career.

 

[Savant]

Yeah kinda wish I knew who it was in this case

I don’t

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Jesus Christ, this has taken a turn.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah I would like to know less about some of you