Transfer: 2023 Summer Transfer Window - Open Window Edition

[hatterson]

They also had a well established history of a notoriously cheap owner.

For a while, sure. But in the 90s until the cap they were routinely among the highest spending teams and never turned it into actual success.

 

[Savant]

I'll take the 50-60m between the two of them. Their wages were horrific so any European club probably would have wanted them for close to free.

Yeah. That is the problem.

 

[Savant]

Chelsea getting bailed out is just gross. I don’t care about buddy-buddy investment capital whatever, even the appearance of quid pro quo means FIFA needs to intervene on this newfound incestuous owner class we’re seeing evolve.

Tin foil hat or not, it’s not too hard to see what has happened here. Chelsea overspending makes a lot more sense if 5ey knew they could dump these contracts on Saudi League if it wasn’t going to work out; especially through Todd’s back channel.

 

[Jack Straw]

For a while, sure. But in the 90s until the cap they were routinely among the highest spending teams and never turned it into actual success.

Obviously there are no guarantees. The Flyers are a good example of that too, also the Rangers. But the Flyers were at least a perennial playoff team. Since the salary cap? Not so much. Seriously, this isn't really debatable. Having a competitive advantage doesn't guarantee success. But it is still a competitive advantage. And the salary cap for the most part removes that advantage. Whether that leads to a better product on the ice, court, diamond, field or pitch, that probably depends on one's point of view.

 

[Peen]

Tin foil hat or not, it’s not too hard to see what has happened here. Chelsea overspending makes a lot more sense if 5ey knew they could dump these contracts on Saudi League if it wasn’t going to work out; especially through Todd’s back channel.

Chelsea overspent on Ziyech in 2019 because they knew they could dump him to the Saudis

Chelsea overspent on Kante in 2016 so they could dump him to the Saudis

Real top level thinking from you. Can’t believe I didn’t see Boehly’s decade long plan here

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Chelsea overspent on Ziyech in 2019 because they knew they could dump him to the Saudis

Chelsea overspent on Kante in 2016 so they could dump him to the Saudis

Real top level thinking from you

I mean different owners, plus my post wasn't meant to trigger conspiracies. I think people should be sceptical of the source to a degree at least. Hell it was merely to show how these billionaires have more similarities and their money is all recycled anyway.

 

[KJS14]

Chelsea fans acting like this isn't ridiculous or even somewhat shady despite one of them having the competence to write the below is hilarious.

I'll take the 50-60m between the two of them. Their wages were horrific so any European club probably would have wanted them for close to free.

 

[Peen]

I mean different owners, plus my post wasn't meant to trigger conspiracies. I think people should be sceptical of the source to a degree at least. Hell it was merely to show how these billionaires have more similarities and their money is all recycled anyway.

Obviously it is fair to be skeptical. But what savant said was objectively stupid.

I feel like if this were totally what is being insinuated, we would have seen a one year extension for Kante and a sale two months later to the Saudis.

But these are big name muslim players who want to keep their wages and the club want them to move on. There simply aren’t a lot of players with the name/wages/etc who fit that target base.

Chelsea fans acting like this isn't ridiculous or even somewhat shady despite one of them having the competence to write the below is hilarious.

You would pay more than that much for the pair? Huh?

 

[KJS14]

You would pay more than that much for the pair? Huh?

Yeah, of course. Given what you said is true and KK / Ziyech hold almost zero market value, and Chelsea would likely be willing to dump them for free (or close to free) just to clear the wages alone, why would the Saudis pay a significant fee? It makes sense that they need to overpay the players in wages to go there, but it makes no sense that they would overpay Chelsea unless there is some other motive.

Kind of similar to saying it's just a coincidence that PIF would have significant assets managed by Clearlake, when they could easily have those assets managed by a Vanguard, BlackRock, etc. for cheaper or a million other hedge funds at the same cost to them.

 

[Peen]

Yeah, of course. Given what you said is true and KK / Ziyech hold almost zero market value, and Chelsea would likely be willing to dump them for free (or close to free) just to clear the wages alone, why would the Saudis pay a significant fee? It makes sense that they need to overpay the players in wages to go there, but it makes no sense that they would overpay Chelsea unless there is some other motive.

Kind of similar to saying it's just a coincidence that PIF would have significant assets managed by Clearlake, when they could easily have those assets managed by a Vanguard, BlackRock, etc. for cheaper or a million other hedge funds at the same cost to them.

If we wanted to let them go for free/no cost, why did we decline Inter and Juve’s loan requests for Koulibaly and demand a permanent sale? And same for Lukaku?

 

[Savant]

Chelsea overspent on Ziyech in 2019 because they knew they could dump him to the Saudis

Chelsea overspent on Kante in 2016 so they could dump him to the Saudis

Real top level thinking from you. Can’t believe I didn’t see Boehly’s decade long plan here

This is a completely disingenuous way of looking at it.

Todd spent a shit load under his ownership, because he knew he could balance to books by sending these guys to Saudi league. Overspending in the past has no merit on what’s happening now. Getting bailed o7t of it by insider trading does. I hope this helps.

The suspiciously tanked Ziyech transfer? not negotiating with Inter for Lukaku and Koulinaly because they can SHOCKINGLY get more money from Saudi. That’s all happening right now

 

[Peen]

Inter did not offer transfer fees. They wanted to loan both. And then cried about it and demanded a Lukaku esque fee for Onana

Are you suggesting they should have gone with those demands?

 

[Savant]

If we wanted to let them go for free/no cost, why did we decline Inter and Juve’s loan requests for Koulibaly and demand a permanent sale? And same for Lukaku?

Easy - Because they knew they could get a transfer fee from the Saudi’s because Todd is pulling the strings.

 

[KJS14]

If we wanted to let them go for free/no cost, why did we decline Inter and Juve’s loan requests for Koulibaly and demand a permanent sale? And same for Lukaku?

Lukaku might be a little different, but you yourself just made the argument that "their wages were horrific so any European club probably would have wanted them for close to free." Why would Chelsea turn down offers to offload the wages for free? Because they knew the Saudis were coming to pay fees above market value clearly.

You seem to have went from "yeah them giving us money for KK / Ziyech is weird" to "how is this strange / sketchy" in a matter of 3 posts...

 

[Savant]

Inter did not offer transfer fees. They wanted to loan both. And then cried about it and demanded a Lukaku esque fee for Onana

Are you suggesting they should have gone with those demands?

They shouldn’t, but that isn’t asking the right question. The right question is ”Why is the Saudi League pool with links to Chelsea ownership offering transfer fees to Chelsea that they would not have gotten from any other team on the planet” at the minimum this is not ethical

 

[Peen]

Lukaku might be a little different, but you yourself just made the argument that "their wages were horrific so any European club probably would have wanted them for close to free." Why would Chelsea turn down offers to offload the wages for free? Because they knew the Saudis were coming to pay fees above market value clearly.

You seem to have went from "yeah them giving us money for KK / Ziyech is weird" to "how is this strange / sketchy" in a matter of 3 posts...

I said it’s fair to be skeptical. That’s it. Skeptical of what exactly? I don’t know. But I do know the crying conspiracies are so cringe

 

[KJS14]

I said it’s fair to be skeptical. That’s it. Skeptical of what exactly? I don’t know. But I do know the crying conspiracies are so cringe

1) That tweet is pretty dumb. Boehly and his crew can be adept at making deals (buying/selling), but they have indeed been clueless about targeting players that don't all fit one single plan. Those aren't mutually exclusive things. We've also already seen him circumvent the spirit of FFP rules by handing out 8 year contracts, and they made the Enzo deal happen for a higher fee rather than waiting just so they could abuse that rule one last time before it got changed.

2) It's a lot more cringe to think "there's nothing odd going on here" while the Saudis are handing Chelsea significant fees for players no other club in the world would pay. Again, paying the players inflated wages makes sense to attract them, but paying Chelsea above market value makes zero sense.

 

[Peen]

“there’s nothing going on here” is a strawman because my exact words were “it’s fair to be skeptical” jesus christ man

 

[KJS14]

“there’s nothing going on here” is a strawman because my exact words were “it’s fair to be skeptical” jesus christ man

And then you posted a tweet that basically said the equivalent of "you can't peddle a narrative that Boehly is dumb about soccer transfers, but smart enough to run a massive hedge fund and work shady deals" as if those things have anything to do with each other.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

the key point here is that “the giant Saudi sovereign wealth fund invests in the large private equity firm” is not evidence of backroom shadiness beyond the level of all backroom shadiness within capitalism in 2023.

The QIA likely also invests in Clearlake. No special deals are being cut. Hell, Inter and Chelsea are at loggerheads over a billion deals right now and I reckon Suning probably has some money in a Clearlake fund. Until I find more evidence than “giant sovereign wealth fund which also owns football teams invests in large private equity firm which also owns football team”, I’m not gonna think this is anything more than capitalism being bad, and nothing specific to this.

What’s even the logic to the conspiracy? PIF invests in Clearlake. Clearlake owns Chelsea, Chelsea’s success (and by extension, asset value) is inhibited by dead weight contracts, PIF takes them off hands, Chelsea becomes more successful and therefore asset value increases? Not gonna lie, doesn’t make sense.

There’s going to continue to be the appearance (and existence of) conflicts of interest so long as investment funds own football teams because other large companies own football teams and also invest in investment funds which own football teams.

As long as private equity firms hold football clubs as “assets”, this’ll continue. Get f***in used to it I guess (it’s unfortunately not going away), but I need a lot more evidence to suggest there’s anything uniquely shady occurring here. I welcome the evidence

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Inter did not offer transfer fees. They wanted to loan both. And then cried about it and demanded a Lukaku esque fee for Onana

Are you suggesting they should have gone with those demands?

Italian clubs have no money. I am not surprised.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Yeah, of course. Given what you said is true and KK / Ziyech hold almost zero market value, and Chelsea would likely be willing to dump them for free (or close to free) just to clear the wages alone, why would the Saudis pay a significant fee? It makes sense that they need to overpay the players in wages to go there, but it makes no sense that they would overpay Chelsea unless there is some other motive.

Kind of similar to saying it's just a coincidence that PIF would have significant assets managed by Clearlake, when they could easily have those assets managed by a Vanguard, BlackRock, etc. for cheaper or a million other hedge funds at the same cost to them.

They likely do have assets managed by Vanguard and BlackRock, they’re just not f***ing idiots who put all their money in one single asset fund

 

[cgf]

No one mentioned Dahoud to Brighton?

Brighton are coming for Erling's crown, what more needs to be said

 

[Live in the Now]

There's no conspiracy going on here at all IMO. They want Muslim players so they're getting them. That's all that's going on here.

 

[les Habs]

Kind of nice only being over a billion in debt and not having to deal with this drama.