Buffalo Bills 2023 Summer - Post-Draft and Pre-Camp Talk

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What position do you want the Bills to draft round 1?

  • RB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • WR

    Votes: 15 22.1%
  • TE

    Votes: 7 10.3%
  • OL

    Votes: 11 16.2%
  • DE

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • DL

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • LB

    Votes: 7 10.3%
  • CB

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • S

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trade out of first round

    Votes: 24 35.3%

  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
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The WGR folks and their crusade for a WR are being a special kind of insufferable this morning.

Don't be the WGR folks.

I expect Bergeron to be long gone (he had first round buzz by the end and could actually be a starting OT, hard to come by), but he'd be my top choice.

After that, I keep coming back to Avila and his position versatility. Have to think Beane would be in love with a guy with his move skills that has experience playing every OL spot except LT.

Now you know how i feel reading these threads at times :laugh:.

RE Avila - i totally agree. Both he & Mauch provide the high athleticism along with position flexibility which are the two traits we know they covet.

The problem is that i believe both are long gone by 59.
 


The WGR folks and their crusade for a WR are being a special kind of insufferable this morning.

Don't be the WGR folks.


I expect Bergeron to be long gone (he had first round buzz by the end and could actually be a starting OT, hard to come by), but he'd be my top choice.

After that, I keep coming back to Avila and his position versatility. Have to think Beane would be in love with a guy with his move skills that has experience playing every OL spot except LT.

I like Avila for those reasons as well. I see him going before Tippmann and Mauch though. And for what it's worth, has RAS isn't in the 9s.

Of the OTs left, Bergeron is probably the best. So he's probably off the board as well.
I think Freeland might creep into R2. He absolutely destroyed the combine.

A couple of high RAS OTs who might well last a bit longer are Duncan & Morris.

I think Wypler also belongs in your list of interior guys.


I can't really disagree with this.

It's yet more big investment into non impact DL pieces though. I guess that would irritate me more than anything - especially with holes at RT/MLB which would be overlooked.
I think Freeland is a lower 2nd possibility, but I see him coming off early in the 3rd. Duncan and Morris are also good choices at 91.

I think Wypler is good but I don't see a ton of development potential. He could be Dan Koppen, or he could just be another backup.

Overall, I think there will be a good player available at 59 who Beane picks. I think he trades out of 91.
 
Joe D. was just talking about how terrible some of Shakir's underlying metrics were, basically echoing an article from Buscaglia last week where he said the following:



Of course, there are other numbers that paint a completely different picture:



Did Buscaglia actually watch tape on Shakir's snaps? Did he analyze the play design, look at the actual routes run. Was Shakir even part of Allen's progression on any of those plays? I would say probably no. That's why I default to the Cover1 guys, the rest of the Buffalo media only ever talks about skill positions, it's like they grew up playing madden and have no appreciation for anything outside of the QB and WR positions :facepalm:

I really like Buscaglia and wouldn't lump him in with the WGR and TBN losers at all. I think he's the best thing going in Buffalo Bills sports media. I think his observation about Shakir stands, he had very poor production relative to the amount of snaps he played. Maybe the issue was more Allen not having faith in him as opposed to him actually not getting open, but the production wasn't there. Evidently the Bills didn't have much faith in him either, as seen by the parade of old guys they brought in end of the year to erase him.

I like (most of) the Cover 1 crew for what they are, amateur fans doing this as a hobby, like us. Some of them really get on my nerves on twitter when they get too high on their own supply, though and start seeing themselves as better than other fans (or some of the silly feuding between different podcasters - there's enough space for everyone folks).

But back to the topic at hand, the WGR boys are being insufferable, that we can all agree on. :laugh:
 
It's not like they can start putting more DTs on the field at any one time though. I don't believe that the position was a major weakness last season & they have exactly the same guys back this time around....
Phillips is on a one-year contract with just a $1.2mm dead cap hit if released. He could easily be a camp casualty. They're stuck with Settle ($5.2mm dead cap) but he doesn't offer much. Same with some of the DEs who, beyond Miller and Groot, are essentially JAGs.

Not sure that group is the best they can do to keep their MLB clean and free to make plays.
 

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“metrics” on a rookie 5th round WR in a limited role make me want to puke as a stats guy.

Give me a break!
I think when someone has just 10 catches on 275 snaps it's a fair thing to talk about, especially in response to those that were projecting him into our starting lineup. The fact that he was a 5th round pick in a historically bad draft class just reinforces that, in my opinion. I think he's still a fun prospect with some upside, but I never understood those penciling him into the starting lineup, especially after the Harty and Sherfield signings.

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WGR v. Cover 1 - grab your popcorn.
 
Just looking purely at the depth chart and seeing what the Bills can handle as roster players out of the drafts. Players in bold and italics are 2024 free agents:

QB: Allen, Allen, Barkley
RB: Cook, Harris, Hines
FB: Gilliam
TE: Knox, Kincaid, Morris
WR: Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield
OT: Dawkins, Brown, Doyle, Quessenberry
OG: Bates, McGovern, Edwards, Boettger
C: Morse

DE: Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Basham, Epenesa
DT: Oliver, Jones, Settle, Phillips
LB: Milano, Bernard, Klein, Dodson, Matakevich, Spector
CB: White, Elam, Benford, Jackson, Johnson, Lewis, Neal
S: Hyde, Poyer, Hamlin, Rapp

ST: Ferguson, Martin, Bass

52 players listed. I know Beane will likely take BPA, but there has to be an eye to the future as well. Eg: taking a CB as the BPA at 59 seems like like a good use of resources. The Bills have 4 CBs that play a lot on the roster into next season, and adding another CB would push someone of value off the roster.

Here's where I see a combination of need for next season and room on the roster:
OT: I don't think adding a good OT who pushes Quessenberry off the roster is a huge deal.
C/IOL: there's a spot to be had behind Morse. Morse looks like a cap casualty after the season. And moving Boettger out is also not really a huge deal.
WR: Can the Bills afford Gabe Davis? I think Shakir breaks out but there's room for a player there.
LB: Adding a good player who knocks Spector off the roster is not really a big deal.
DT: Not a ton of savings moving anyone out unless they trade Oliver. Room for a 5th DT is possible.
 
I really like Buscaglia and wouldn't lump him in with the WGR and TBN losers at all. I think he's the best thing going in Buffalo Bills sports media. I think his observation about Shakir stands, he had very poor production relative to the amount of snaps he played. Maybe the issue was more Allen not having faith in him as opposed to him actually not getting open, but the production wasn't there. Evidently the Bills didn't have much faith in him either, as seen by the parade of old guys they brought in end of the year to erase him.

I like (most of) the Cover 1 crew for what they are, amateur fans doing this as a hobby, like us. Some of them really get on my nerves on twitter when they get too high on their own supply, though and start seeing themselves as better than other fans (or some of the silly feuding between different podcasters - there's enough space for everyone folks).

But back to the topic at hand, the WGR boys are being insufferable, that we can all agree on. :laugh:

I actually consider the main Cover 1 guys part of the media. They may be amateurs, but they create tons of content, attend draft and scouting events, and a few actually have experience for legit national scouting outlets. The only thing that separates them from other media members is the journalism diploma, which isn't nothing, but the work they do is very professional and far exceeds the quality of degree'd journalists.

I've never been a fan of Buscaglia, he's always promoting the flashy picks - He was heavily pumping the Sammy Watkins & CJ Spiller picks, he also wanted Tavon Austin and Nassib the year we took EJ. In my mind, he's the football equivalent of Pronman - always obsessed with the spinny spinny skate fast guys (shout out to @Old Navy Goat for this awesome label), seems to have very little appreciation for line play or coaching impacts.
 






He was used from a variety of positions at Utah and ran a wide variety of routes making him maybe the most pro ready TE in this class.

Last year, Kincaid’s snap distribution was 55.1% in the slot, 9.5% wide, and 35.4% inline. I believe that's similar to what the Cover-1 guys said were Kelce's percentages.


Yep. My post wasn't clear (that's what I get for posting before I finished my coffee). I knew he played in the slot and in line a lot. I wonder if Beane and co. think he can play out wide too (even though he didn't do it much in college). Seems like he has the traits to do that. And that diversity may be why they had him over a guy like Downs, who they may see as a pure slot guy.
 
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Don't be the WGR folks.
"The 30-45% a JSN/Flowers/Addison doesn't play in the slot, they'll be out wide."

Huh? My thought was that the 30%-45% they don't play the slot, they'd be on the bench. None of them offer anything as outside blockers and (like most rookies) will have problems learning how to get off the LOS against NFL corners when split out wide.

Kincaid is big enough to fight through press coverage and is a willing blocker who can hold his own against DBs (not DEs, though). That should help keep him on the field.
 


The WGR folks and their crusade for a WR are being a special kind of insufferable this morning.

Don't be the WGR folks.


I expect Bergeron to be long gone (he had first round buzz by the end and could actually be a starting OT, hard to come by), but he'd be my top choice.

After that, I keep coming back to Avila and his position versatility. Have to think Beane would be in love with a guy with his move skills that has experience playing every OL spot except LT.

Many think there will be a OL run as soon as round 2 starts. Might take a pretty strong offer to get the Steelers to move out.
 
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I think when someone has just 10 catches on 275 snaps it's a fair thing to talk about, especially in response to those that were projecting him into our starting lineup. The fact that he was a 5th round pick in a historically bad draft class just reinforces that, in my opinion. I think he's still a fun prospect with some upside, but I never understood those penciling him into the starting lineup, especially after the Harty and Sherfield signings.

View attachment 698345

WGR v. Cover 1 - grab your popcorn.
They're missing the forest for the trees. It's not going to matter what position he plays. All that matters is how Buffalo utilizes him, and if they're successful doing so.

Where Kincaid plays has no bearing on us fans or media people. Arguing about this, just shows they have absolutely nothing better to do.
 
Most updated mock factoring in Kincaid

25. TE Dalton Kincaid (Utah)
59. DT Gervon Dexter (Florida)
91. C Luke Wypler (Ohio State)
137. LB Owen Pappoe (Auburn)
205. S JaVon Hicks (Cincinatti)
 
Most updated mock factoring in Kincaid

25. TE Dalton Kincaid (Utah)
59. DT Gervon Dexter (Florida)
91. C Luke Wypler (Ohio State)
137. LB Owen Pappoe (Auburn)
205. S JaVon Hicks (Cincinatti)
Anyone think they might take a flyer on the Mapu from Sac St in 5/6 ? or does Rapp already fill that hybrid role ?
 
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Those WGR guys are being complete doorknobs. There are only a handful of elite pass catchers in this draft and we got one of them.
they all hated Josh Allen 5 years ago, I bet that's not on their linkedin pages! lol Going to Newhouse or Brockport does not make you an expert.
 
FYI if you run a PFN mock today it'll sim the first round to actual results and let you pick up with 59.

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Traded our 2nd for a 3rd and 4th and somehow still got Bergeron, and then Benton in the 3rd felt especially silly.
 
Kincaid is obviously not Travis Kelce and I’m not making this a comparison of talent levels, but Kincaid has the ability, like Kelce, of finding open spots.
Except they obviously had a first round grade on Kincaid and not on Downs :laugh:

I like Downs quite a bit, but I think Kincaid brings a lot more to the table.
Seen a couple replies like this. I wouldn’t have taken Downs here. But Downs in the early 2nd plus more draft picks maybe would be better. My point is a day one pick to turn a TE into a slot receiver when a day two pick on a slot receiver may have had the same impact is not exactly ideal. Kincaid is a better player, but might not do better in the slot WR role. THAT said, I acknowledge Kincaid offers more if he develops as a blocker.
 
FYI if you run a PFN mock today it'll sim the first round to actual results and let you pick up with 59.

View attachment 698431

Traded our 2nd for a 3rd and 4th and somehow still got Bergeron, and then Benton in the 3rd felt especially silly.
Done that about 100 times today. :laugh:

At first I thought the sim was broken, since it went through the 1st round at warp speed.

Bills still have pick 130 in the PFN sim. Also, I've been pretty successful trading 91 for a 4th and 5th.

Edit: about 1 in 10 times, Sanders falls to 59.
 
Done that about 100 times today. :laugh:

At first I thought the sim was broken, since it went through the 1st round at warp speed.

Bills still have pick 130 in the PFN sim. Also, I've been pretty successful trading 91 for a 4th and 5th.
Their big board is a bit messed up & they haven't updated the team needs for when the CPU picks... Which leads to some strange results.

I got about 15 picks into a full user mock, but it just gets so difficult to predict exact picks at that point so i gave up.
 
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