GDT: 2023 Running Preseason Thread

[thebus88]

If Provorov is the #1LD, then Werenski is the #1RD.

The debate shouldn’t be who is better or who could play over Werenski. Jones was, unlike what some believed and expressed, but, everyone is all past that now.

The question is who plays with Werenski on the top pair. Is it Severson or Provorov?

Or maybe Blankenburg, I guess, if we’re evening out the pairs a bit and going with L-R on D 100%.

Peeke or Boqvist on the top pair is unacceptable and can’t happen.

 

[NotWendell]

I wonder if this indicates Voronkov is destined to AHL or if they want to have a look at him with more ice time


I think the biggest complaint about Provorov last two years was that his offensive production as a PP QB was minuscule. So I would definitely have Werenski over him on PP

Why do we need either one of them on the PP?

 

[Marioesque]

If Provorov is the #1LD, then Werenski is the #1RD.

The debate shouldn’t be who is better or who could play over Werenski. Jones was, unlike what some believed and expressed, but, everyone is all past that now.

The question is who plays with Werenski on the top pair. Is it Severson or Provorov?

Or maybe Blankenburg, I guess, if we’re evening out the pairs a bit and going with L-R on D 100%.

Peeke or Boqvist on the top pair is unacceptable and can’t happen.

Quantifying The Importance of Handedness

It seems as if NHL teams are trying harder and harder to strike a balance with respect to the handedness of their defensemen. This idea is substantiated when looking at the falling percentage of av…

hockey-graphs.com

I doubt prov-z pairing happens

 

[stevo61]

If Provorov is the #1LD, then Werenski is the #1RD.

The debate shouldn’t be who is better or who could play over Werenski. Jones was, unlike what some believed and expressed, but, everyone is all past that now.

The question is who plays with Werenski on the top pair. Is it Severson or Provorov?

Or maybe Blankenburg, I guess, if we’re evening out the pairs a bit and going with L-R on D 100%.

Peeke or Boqvist on the top pair is unacceptable and can’t happen.

I think anything has a chance to happen in a new system and cant rule anything out yet. If playing simplified hockey helps hide Peeke's flaws then you have to try it. No stone unturned. Although I do think Provorov and Werenski have to lead their own pairs. Having 2 guys that always want to go can but fun but dangerous. Jones used to play that way but playing with Werenski made him stay back more and take away some of that offensive aggression

 

[thebus88]

Quantifying The Importance of Handedness

It seems as if NHL teams are trying harder and harder to strike a balance with respect to the handedness of their defensemen. This idea is substantiated when looking at the falling percentage of av…

hockey-graphs.com

I doubt prov-z pairing happens

Ok, 1st is there is a large variance when it comes to puck handling ability, and overall ability, in defenseman.

Some players should or could be used on their off side and others should not. Players aren’t equal, but, these “statistics” can’t take this into account and value them like they are. The overall style and abilities of the defenseman should be more important than which hand they shoot, IMO. Nobody is saying a Gudbranson-Peeke pair will work out, because neither guy can move well or handle the puck. If you have 2 guys who can handle the puck and skate and read the game adequately, there should be NO issue if 1 guy is on his “off side”.

I’d also like to know THE QUALITY of the pairs that are being taken into account in these “numbers”. What is the skill breakdown of the pairs?? What percentage of same handed pairs were “top pairing” quality defenders, in relation to “3rd pairing” guys possibly thrown together by “necessity”.

These “statistics” like all the OTHERS can’t even fathom to take all these different variables into account.

 

[thebus88]

I think anything has a chance to happen in a new system and cant rule anything out yet. If playing simplified hockey helps hide Peeke's flaws then you have to try it. No stone unturned. Although I do think Provorov and Werenski have to lead their own pairs. Having 2 guys that always want to go can but fun but dangerous. Jones used to play that way but playing with Werenski made him stay back more and take away some of that offensive aggression

I find the idea that just now THIS YEAR we are simply playing “simplified hockey”, because of Vincent or whatever, is bogus.

Torts and Larsen didn’t have some extraordinary/extravagant “systems” that the players couldn’t understand that caused them to lose games.

It’s the NHL. Playing top pairing minutes isn’t simple, and there’s NO WAY to hide the flaws of a Peeke and Boqvist, playing against the top lines in the NHL. Especially with Werenski as their partner.

While I’m not bashing Werenski when I say this, he still IS an offensive minded guy that does have his issues defensively. I know Peeke’s style, I also know how EFFECTIVE he and his style are. The overall point is I think both Werenski and the team need a better partner for him to be as effective as he can be. It’s not Peeke or Boqvist for the same, and different reasons.

 

[ViD]

Why do we need either one of them on the PP?

Do you want 5 forward PP units ?

 

[stevo61]

I find the idea that just now THIS YEAR we are simply playing “simplified hockey”, because of Vincent or whatever, is bogus.

Torts and Larsen didn’t have some extraordinary/extravagant “systems” that the players couldn’t understand that caused them to lose games.

It’s the NHL. Playing top pairing minutes isn’t simple, and there’s NO WAY to hide the flaws of a Peeke and Boqvist, playing against the top lines in the NHL. Especially with Werenski as their partner.

While I’m not bashing Werenski when I say this, he still IS an offensive minded guy that does have his issues defensively. I know Peeke’s style, I also know how EFFECTIVE he and his style are. The overall point is I think both Werenski and the team need a better partner for him to be as effective as he can be. It’s not Peeke or Boqvist for the same, and different reasons.

Larsens system was stupid if Im being honest, that box and 1 that had guys scrambling and defending basically like a PK was painful. Also having Peeke/Gudbranson trying to make plays vs keep it simple stupid was also painful. I didnt mention Torts so I dont know where that came from, Torts was obviously good. Of course there are ways to hide flaws, its called coaching. Larsen couldnt do it.

Like I said though, we have the players we have. Theyll have to try a number of combo's to get the best from the group as a whole. Maybe Peeke/Severson flipflop, maybe Blankenburg eventually makes it way too difficult to keep him out of the linup, maybe Jiricek really picks it up in Cleveland and earns the call. It will take time to answer a number of questions. Werenski will be hard to partner with right now because hes still expirementing aggressively to find his way back to the level of play he/we expect

 

[NotWendell]

Do you want 5 forward PP units ?

I actually advocate for 4 forwards. Boq and Severson would be good up top. Despite my questions, I do like Provorov's heavy shot from the blue line.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

The question is who plays with Werenski on the top pair. Is it Severson or Provorov?

Well since Provorov and Werenski have never played a second together in camp, games, or practice to date. I think that answer is clear.

It’ll either be Severson, Peeke, Boqvist, or Blankenburg

 

[koteka]

While I’m not bashing Werenski when I say this, he still IS an offensive minded guy that does have his issues defensively. I know Peeke’s style, I also know how EFFECTIVE he and his style are. The overall point is I think both Werenski and the team need a better partner for him to be as effective as he can be. It’s not Peeke or Boqvist for the same, and different reasons.

This has driven me crazy since Jones left. Find a stay at home defenseman to pair with Werenski and let him be free to do his thing. Also, I’d add to what you said: he still IS an offensive minded guy that does have his issues defensively and is also the best defensive defenseman we have

 

[majormajor]

Rough lineup.

Let's see if Mateychuk can carry.

 

[stevo61]

Not their best line up either but I hear that Ovechkin guy is good. Ive read McMichael has been good this preseason. Could be a good oppurtunity for a few guys tonight

 

[majormajor]

Considering Zach’s numbers in the games he did play (both analytically and statistically) were very good, I think he would have been fine.

Werenski is a better defender and had a way better shot. Although I will agree Provorov is a better skater and more skilled, Provorov is more mistake prone. I’m glad we have both of them. But I think it’s pretty clear that Werenski is the better player. And I’m not saying that just because Provorov struggled the last two years. I also don’t see the upside in putting both of these players against each other considering they’re both here and going to play major roles.

I can’t believe Werenski has become underrated by some in our own fanbase on here. But here we are

I'll hold off in characterizing Provorov until we see him more, but Werenski is definitely getting underrated here.

It looks like his skating is underappreciated. He can take two strides and walk someone. It might look like he's not moving much but he's a fast powerful skater.

He's also great in his own end. If he wasn't so good offensively, he'd be our top shutdown D. He's great at boxing out with his shoulders and has a great stick. You're not getting the puck back from him.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

On the face of it this matchup is pretty even, maybe even a slight edge to Washington in actual NHL players/goalies, if ever so slightly. Interesting to see who, if any, rises to the occasion.

 

[ViD]

Why is Dumais not playing ? Makes no sense

 

[stevo61]

Why is Dumais not playing ? Makes no sense

Gotta get Pearson amd Matteau those reps I guess

 

[majormajor]

Why is Dumais not playing ? Makes no sense

It looks like they want to see him with the NHL group in the last game? Could be a good test.

On his podcast today Porty thinks Jiricek might have a good shot at winning a job out of camp. I don't see it.

 

[I3LI3]

really really really rooting hard for spencer martin to do super well tonight.

 

[Napoli]

I'm happy we have more than one guy who is capable of filling in for top pair minutes.

Werenski is a very good defenseman, maybe has the best wrist shot for a Dman in the league imo. But he also needs someone responsible in their own end so he can be fully effective. A low key great partner is Blankenburg who is definitely making the team. Coaches love him and he delivers consistently night in and night out. The only question mark is if that pair gets overpowered physically.

Having multiple guys in Werenski, Severson, and Provorov who are actual capable defensemen will allow this team to win way more games (Bearing no massive Elvis blunders).
Vincent will allow to spread the work load around much better and give Werenski more of a break to allow him to be effective where he's best at, in the O zone causing havoc.

The real sad thing is that Gudbranson will still play every night. A big mistake was made signing him obviously but continuing to play him every night because of his contract is just continuing that mistake.

Hopefully Vincent plays who actually deserves to play. If Gudbranson somehow finds talent than I'm all for him playing but the fans deserve way better than having to watch him suck for 82 games straight.

Last note, Werenski isn't a PP QB, he sucks on the PP, he's not a point man. Boqvist is much better suited for running the PP. It's funny how much contracts and appeasing egos rule who gets to play where. If the goal is winning hockey games, Werenski isn't your point man on the 1st PP. Let him run the 2nd PP and see if he can produce otherwise give it to Severson or Provorov.

Rant over

 

[CBJWerenski8]

“It’s been kind of an up-and-down preseason for me,” Werenski said. “It’s hard because I don’t want to dwell on playing bad because I haven’t played in so long.

“It’s one of those things where usually I’d be upset, but right now I kinda have to realize where I’m at. I haven’t done this in a long time.”

Werenski played in his fourth preseason game on Wednesday, a 5-3 win over the Buffalo Sabres in Nationwide Arena. He’s going to play again on Saturday in Washington, giving him a heavier schedule than most veterans need or want in the preseason.

But it was by design. Werenski and Blue Jackets coach Pascal Vincent had a pre-camp meeting to agree on his workload to help him get the feel back.

“Certain things are harder than I thought they’d be,” said Werenski, who has zero points and 14 shots on goal in four games. “Like going back on pucks, plays I’m usually really good at. Finding the middle guy (on the breakout), holding it an extra second and finding the seam (pass to a forward). Those plays, I feel like I’m not seeing them yet.“It’s handcuffing me and I’m holding on to pucks too long, turning them over. I’m trying to iron that out of my last two games. I’ll get there. I know I’ll get there.”

How Zach Werenski, Justin Danforth and Jake Bean bonded through their long recoveries

Season-ending shoulder surgeries brought Werenski, Bean and Danforth closer — in recovery, in rehab and in shaking off rust in their games.

theathletic.com

 

[squashmaple]

The real sad thing is that Gudbranson will still play every night. A big mistake was made signing him obviously but continuing to play him every night because of his contract is just continuing that mistake.

Hopefully Vincent plays who actually deserves to play. If Gudbranson somehow finds talent than I'm all for him playing but the fans deserve way better than having to watch him suck for 82 games straight.

If you’ve got actual quotes stating he’e guaranteed to play every game, I’m all ears, but my assumption is that they’ll ice the best lineups they can and rotate him in when they need toughness.

 

[majormajor]

If you’ve got actual quotes stating he’e guaranteed to play every game, I’m all ears, but my assumption is that they’ll ice the best lineups they can and rotate him in when they need toughness.

I think we'll eventually get there, we are getting closer to the point where we'll have 6 D that are much much better than Guddy, but to start this year I expect he'll play every game. The respect for veterans will buy him some extra time.

 

[Napoli]

If you’ve got actual quotes stating he’e guaranteed to play every game, I’m all ears, but my assumption is that they’ll ice the best lineups they can and rotate him in when they need toughness.

I doubt it, he'll play until it's very obvious he's hurting the team. Players like him always getting the benefit of the doubt just because their vets is what I was getting at.

 

[aRussian]

Not sure if Voronkov tired or poor defensive awareness but was definitely quite still on that last play