Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VIII - Chaim Bloom FIRED

[Shaun]

he’s probably happy he can go back to running fangraphs

 

[RoccoF14]

Well I really hope that new direction is Theo


This will be a very attractive position for the next guy, we should get awesome candidates

Theo is a great GM, as long as ownership is willing to throw a shit-ton of money into the roster. He proved that with the Sox v1 as well as the Cubs. I‘m not so sure he can do it with tight purse strings, and I’m not convinced Sox ownership is prepared to give him a blank check.

 

[CDJ]

i honestly don’t think it will be Theo, it was fun to dream for a minute tho

Brandon Gomes, Chris Antonetti, or James Click and I’ll be happy. Eddie Romero if they go internal. And then let them choose their manager. Gomes and Antonetti appeal to me due to their insight into pitching development

 

[arider1990]

I don't think this idea that Bloom rebuilt the farm system is well founded. In his time here he did 4 drafts and 4 international signings.
Here is a showing of his first 4 rounds of these drafts by position
1st Round: 4 selections. 3 SS 1C
2nd Round: 4 selections. 2 SS 2 OF
3rd Round: 4 selections. 1 SS 1 2B 1 3B 1 P
4th Round: 6 selections. 3 SS 3 P
Then to add on here is the top 10 contracts for international signings by position(Not including the older players like Masa)
7 SS 1 OF 2 C

In his tenure his need to consistently sign and draft SS killed him. I mean when you are wasting as much assets as him on a SS then you are not doing a good job. The fact that the Red Sox need pitching and have the whole time but he spent a total of 4 picks out of 18 in the first 4 rounds and none on the international signings is not building a good team. Hopefully whoever takes over for him can leverage the 80 SS prospects the Red Sox have and turn it into something helpful.

 

[EvilDead]

Finally...the Red Sox can be a functioning baseball outfit again. To say that the Chaim Bloom experiment was an unmitigated disaster would be a stretch, even from someone who is as anti-Bloom as myself. That said...WOW what a shit show and thank god it's over. The only potential, key word potential, positive going in the Sox favor is that the farm system which is filled with prospects other teams want now. Granted some of that is probably because Bloom hoarded shortstop prospects like no one's business, but I can't fault him for going best player available. Hopefully the next guy can actually develop some of them into real players (regardless of where they end up playing on the diamond or is smart enough at future trade deadlines to flip them for real players that can help this team win now. This team needs to go back to what won them titles back in the early 2000s under Theo. Draft smart, keep the best players for yourself, flip others for future foundational pieces, and make smart free agent signings. Whether the candidates for GM/President of Baseball Ops are capable of doing this, we'll have to see. Now, however, the paralysis by analysis era of baseball under Bloom is over.

 

[EvilDead]

he’s probably happy he can go back to running fangraphs

Can't wait to see him go on diatribes as a moderator on the Fangraphs forums about how "tHE rEd SoX aRe sO inEFFicIEntLy rUN NoW!!!1!"

 

[UncleRico]

I don't think this idea that Bloom rebuilt the farm system is well founded. In his time here he did 4 drafts and 4 international signings.
Here is a showing of his first 4 rounds of these drafts by position
1st Round: 4 selections. 3 SS 1C
2nd Round: 4 selections. 2 SS 2 OF
3rd Round: 4 selections. 1 SS 1 2B 1 3B 1 P
4th Round: 6 selections. 3 SS 3 P
Then to add on here is the top 10 contracts for international signings by position(Not including the older players like Masa)
7 SS 1 OF 2 C

In his tenure his need to consistently sign and draft SS killed him. I mean when you are wasting as much assets as him on a SS then you are not doing a good job. The fact that the Red Sox need pitching and have the whole time but he spent a total of 4 picks out of 18 in the first 4 rounds and none on the international signings is not building a good team. Hopefully whoever takes over for him can leverage the 80 SS prospects the Red Sox have and turn it into something helpful.

I wanted bloom gone and I’m happy he is. However one of the very few things I won’t knock him for is his drafting.

He drafted best player available each time. It takes so long for the average baseball player to make it to the mlb so targeting/reaching for pitching that is likely 4-5 years away from sniffing an MLB game because the MLB roster is currently lacking pitching is just poor decision making. He stockpiled a lot of good prospects. Sure there may be a surplus of SS but those prospects can be traded eventually. But no issue him taking the BPA.

 

[GatorMike]

In his tenure his need to consistently sign and draft SS killed him. I mean when you are wasting as much assets as him on a SS then you are not doing a good job. The fact that the Red Sox need pitching and have the whole time but he spent a total of 4 picks out of 18 in the first 4 rounds and none on the international signings is not building a good team.

They're not drafting shortstops - they're drafting athletes. The best young athletes tend to play shortstop. Most of those shortstops either have moved positions already (see Nick Yorke) or will shortly.

Mookie Betts was a high school shortstop who was drafted and moved to 2B until he got to AA and then started playing in the outfield.

 

[GatorMike]

 

[Johnnyduke]

They're not drafting shortstops - they're drafting athletes. The best young athletes tend to play shortstop. Most of those shortstops either have moved positions already (see Nick Yorke) or will shortly.

Mookie Betts was a high school shortstop who was drafted and moved to 2B until he got to AA and then started playing in the outfield.

I don't have a problem with drafting the same position because they're not all gonna be shortstops but I do have a problem with us touting the highly rated farm system while none of the top, top guys are pitching prospects that are close. And there's more risk projecting guys down at single A who *might* be good. Bloom gets credit for an overall good system ranking but it's a bit unbalanced in my opinion.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Theo is a great GM, as long as ownership is willing to throw a shit-ton of money into the roster. He proved that with the Sox v1 as well as the Cubs. I‘m not so sure he can do it with tight purse strings, and I’m not convinced Sox ownership is prepared to give him a blank check.

Anyone should be able to do the job with a shit-ton of money to use.

Otherwise, the GM needs smarts and shit luck.

 

[JRull86]

Maybe the other team wanted the Sox to pay his entire last two years of his deal? And if that was the case, the Sox would have to get something decent in return.

From Bradford today:

"One instance was particularly striking. Per a major league source familiar with the situation, just before the 2022 trade deadline - and a few weeks after Chris Sale had broken his finger broken in his second outing of the season - a team approached Bloom about dealing for the lefty. The acquiring club was agreeing to take on all of the money left on Sale's contract (2 1/2 seasons of more than $50 million), while sending some semblance of players. The Red Sox wanted better players than were offered and no deal was done."

inexcusable. If you had a chance to get out from that deal without having to keep salary, who the f*** cares what you got back.

 

[EvilDead]

I wanted bloom gone and I’m happy he is. However one of the very few things I won’t knock him for is his drafting.

He drafted best player available each time. It takes so long for the average baseball player to make it to the mlb so targeting/reaching for pitching that is likely 4-5 years away from sniffing an MLB game because the MLB roster is currently lacking pitching is just poor decision making. He stockpiled a lot of good prospects. Sure there may be a surplus of SS but those prospects can be traded eventually. But no issue him taking the BPA.

To me the problem was the unwillingness to think of the short to medium term. For all the prospects he's gotten, and some of the picks he's made are talented, I question whether he understood the impetus to have a quick turnaround and how doing things the way small market teams do it doesn't fly. There needed to be an adjustment in thought process.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

From Bradford today:

"One instance was particularly striking. Per a major league source familiar with the situation, just before the 2022 trade deadline - and a few weeks after Chris Sale had broken his finger broken in his second outing of the season - a team approached Bloom about dealing for the lefty. The acquiring club was agreeing to take on all of the money left on Sale's contract (2 1/2 seasons of more than $50 million), while sending some semblance of players. The Red Sox wanted better players than were offered and no deal was done."

inexcusable. If you had a chance to get out from that deal without having to keep salary, who the f*** cares what you got back.

That is beyond infuriating.

So the team that was willing to use Mookie F'ing Betts to unload David Price (3 years 90m left) wouldn't accept scraps to move Sale (2.5yrs ~65m left)?

What in the ever loving hell is that bull crap.

 

[GatorMike]

From Bradford today:

"One instance was particularly striking. Per a major league source familiar with the situation, just before the 2022 trade deadline - and a few weeks after Chris Sale had broken his finger broken in his second outing of the season - a team approached Bloom about dealing for the lefty. The acquiring club was agreeing to take on all of the money left on Sale's contract (2 1/2 seasons of more than $50 million), while sending some semblance of players. The Red Sox wanted better players than were offered and no deal was done."

inexcusable. If you had a chance to get out from that deal without having to keep salary, who the f*** cares what you got back.

Yeah, I read that earlier today.

If true, that's an enormous mistake.

 

[GatorMike]

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Class act to the end.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

From Bradford today:

"One instance was particularly striking. Per a major league source familiar with the situation, just before the 2022 trade deadline - and a few weeks after Chris Sale had broken his finger broken in his second outing of the season - a team approached Bloom about dealing for the lefty. The acquiring club was agreeing to take on all of the money left on Sale's contract (2 1/2 seasons of more than $50 million), while sending some semblance of players. The Red Sox wanted better players than were offered and no deal was done."

inexcusable. If you had a chance to get out from that deal without having to keep salary, who the f*** cares what you got back.

Should of been fired right there for this if true.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

I'm not a Carrabis fan, but he has good sources. He lets you know when he's guessing and when the info he has is informed. While he thought Bloom would get another offseason, he's been dropping hints about Bloom's warts from execs of other teams for awhile. He's also fair. There's plenty of blame to spread around, and Carrabis is spreading it like manure. It's an interesting listen if you have 2 1/2 hours.

With all of that said, Sox fans can scoff all they want about Passan's tweet (Carrabis and others back it up independently, most often without mentioning Passan). Those were Bloom's marching orders, and the Sox most definitely told him that winning is expected. Regardless of a team's budget and standing, ownership lists it as an expectation. Bloom was carrying out what Sox ownership wanted. He traded Mookie because they didn't want to meet his contract demands, and it was the easiest way to get rid of Price's salary. He improved the farm system. It doesn't matter whether anyone believes that it's imbalanced. No team an influence who is available in the draft order. They select who is in front of them. By most accounts, the Sox drafted well under Bloom.

When he was hired, I wrote in the thread that Sox ownership is impatient. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out after Cherington and Dombrowski. Bloom is just another example. That's not to say each of them have their flaws. Cherington was reluctant to part with prospects to augment the major league team. Dombrowski didn't give up major-league quality prospects to acquire Sale, Kimbrel, etc. Sure some have played above AAA, but the return the Sox received was better. His flaws were re-signing Sale when it was apparent to everyone that his arm was falling off in 2018, and apparently his reliance on LaRussa and other old-school execs, which alienated his front office staff and operation protocols. Bloom was indecisive. It was apparent in the Mookie trade with the fiasco involving Graterol. We all saw it at more than one trade deadline when he sold and bought at the same time. Trading Vazquez (nice return), Diekman, etc., acquiring Pham and Hosmer, but holding onto significant free agents all while finishing above the luxury tax threshold was a failure. This trade deadline was also a failure, although Bloom probably read the writing on the wall and gambled that holding on to Paxton and others could save his job (just speculating) if they made the playoffs. Of course, the odds were not in his favor. I didn't like the decision, but understand in hindsight why he might have acted this way. Now, we hear from Carrabis and Bradford that the Sox were approached by a team to acquire Sale and his full contract (nearly $60 million off the books) — AFTER he broke his hand. Bloom didn't like the players the Sox would receive in return. There are plenty of other examples of his flaws that can be dissected.

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit on, both Sox ownership and Bloom failed. Based on past decisions, the Sox likely won't be replacing him with an obscure name (i.e. the suspects have already been listed). What's curious is O'Halloran has been offered a position above GM, but they are still looking for a leader for baseball ops. That means two positions are available — GM and chief of baseball ops. It sounds like one of Romero, Ferreira and Groopman are candidates for GM. An outside exec likely will be the CoBO. We've all seen the names. Hopefully, they stay away from Sabean and Moore. Sawdaye, Byrnes, Gomes and the Braves official whose name escapes me at the moment. It won't be a boring offseason.

 

[Johnnyduke]

With all of that said, Sox fans can scoff all they want about Passan's tweet (Carrabis and others back it up independently, most often without mentioning Passan). Those were Bloom's marching orders, and the Sox most definitely told him that winning is expected. Regardless of a team's budget and standing, ownership lists it as an expectation. Bloom was carrying out what Sox ownership wanted. He traded Mookie because they didn't want to meet his contract demands, and it was the easiest way to get rid of Price's salary. He improved the farm system. It doesn't matter whether anyone believes that it's imbalanced.

Of course it matters if you have an unbalanced farm system. Chaim has shown he has no interest or simply cannot trade guys from the farm system. So what good is an unbalanced farm system with no imminent pitching prospects? That's exactly when you should use the bloated position player pool to acquire pitching. That is the give and take of managing a farm system and the major league team at the same time.

Also, Jeff Passan mentioned when the Red Sox were winning WS titles. The criticism of Chaim Bloom isn't that he hasn't been able to win a WS. The criticism is that it could be back to back last place seasons. That is a far cry from coming up short and not winning a WS. Chaim Bloom's marching orders were not to finish in last place as many times as possible.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Got to see Jim Ed play for the Bristol Red Sox in their first season in my hometown. We were both 20. That was a great summer.

They played in historic Muzzy Field in Bristol, where I had played high school and American Legion ball. Rice homered in his first at bat as a BriSox. Smoked a liner to left field that drew ahhs from the crowd. I would be able to work at the cemetery during the week, about a mile from the park, have supper, shower and go to the game. Sit in the old grandstand on the first base side, with easy access to the beer stand right next to it. 50 cent Schaffers. (One 10 cent beer night, did not go well). Beautiful. Fred Lynn joined the team after his college season ended. But Rice was The Man. And of course, the Sox finished last that year.

 

[Johnnyduke]

That is beyond infuriating.

So the team that was willing to use Mookie F'ing Betts to unload David Price (3 years 90m left) wouldn't accept scraps to move Sale (2.5yrs ~65m left)?

What in the ever loving hell is that bull crap.

Chaim Bloom was in over his head running this team. It's that simple. He is well equipped to run somebody's draft room/farm system. But the full job of a GM is something he could not do here.

 

[CDJ]

It kind of depends what those players in return are. If they’re also bad contracts then you hold onto Sale given the need for pitching

If the players in return weren’t on bad contracts then bloom is an idiot for not doing that deal and throwing the saved money at a guy like Senga

 

[GatorMike]

I had a whole long post written out, but I think I'll just summarize my feelings instead.

If Chaim Bloom was fired because ownership no longer believed in his ability to execute his plan, then I'll understand.

If Chaim Bloom was fired because ownership no longer believed in his plan, and they bring in someone to go in a radically new direction, then I'll be pissed.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I don't think this idea that Bloom rebuilt the farm system is well founded. In his time here he did 4 drafts and 4 international signings.
Here is a showing of his first 4 rounds of these drafts by position
1st Round: 4 selections. 3 SS 1C
2nd Round: 4 selections. 2 SS 2 OF
3rd Round: 4 selections. 1 SS 1 2B 1 3B 1 P
4th Round: 6 selections. 3 SS 3 P
Then to add on here is the top 10 contracts for international signings by position(Not including the older players like Masa)
7 SS 1 OF 2 C

In his tenure his need to consistently sign and draft SS killed him. I mean when you are wasting as much assets as him on a SS then you are not doing a good job. The fact that the Red Sox need pitching and have the whole time but he spent a total of 4 picks out of 18 in the first 4 rounds and none on the international signings is not building a good team. Hopefully whoever takes over for him can leverage the 80 SS prospects the Red Sox have and turn it into something helpful.

hopefully there are 10 Nomars in the vaunted system. Ill believe when I see it ( I don't)