Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VII - White Sox clean out the front office

[KrejciMVP]

People were saying the same sorts of things when guys like Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera and Giancarlo Stanton signed long-term deals. All of those deals turned painful. Go look up the top 25 or so largest contracts in MLB history. A shocking number of them turned out horribly.

Besides, I'm not convinced that contracts will keep going up. I think the RSN rights fees bubble has already started to burst, and I think a lot of cable networks are having second and third thoughts about how much they're spending on rights fees given how many are deciding to cut the cord. That's part of why you're already seeing games on Apple TV and Peacock.


Yeah, I think the Red Sox are likely out on the idea of signing a premier free agent to a 12-year contract for ages 29-41.


If the reporting that the Red Sox offered Mookie 10-years, $300 million is accurate, that would have been the 2nd-largest contract in MLB history at the time it was offered. If he then countered at $400+ million, I have a hard time blaming ownership/management for believing that he was determined to get to free agency.

sounds like we'll never be relevant again with that approach of avoiding FAs like Betts.

 

[Fenway]

Bananaball looks interesting...................

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Bananaball looks interesting...................

View attachment 736024

My fiancée wants to go see them.

 

[GatorMike]

So does that make Andrew Friedman dumb? (If you are actually talking Bogaerts I haven't really been talking about that one)

Friedman signed Betts for ages 27-39. He got a couple more years of Mookie's prime than your typical free agent. And it'll probably still be painful at the end of his deal.

sounds like we'll never be relevant again with that approach of avoiding FAs like Betts.

The two best teams in baseball are the Atlanta Braves and the Baltimore Orioles.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

The two best teams in baseball are the Atlanta Braves and the Baltimore Orioles.

And right with them are the Dodgers and Rangers.

Just because some don’t spend their money well doesn’t mean you shouldn’t spend.

Especially when you are a big market team with one of the highest revenues

 

[KrejciMVP]

Friedman signed Betts for ages 27-39. He got a couple more years of Mookie's prime than your typical free agent. And it'll probably still be painful at the end of his deal.


The two best teams in baseball are the Atlanta Braves and the Baltimore Orioles.

the Orioles striking gold once ever isn't a plan

 

[Johnnyduke]

Friedman signed Betts for ages 27-39. He got a couple more years of Mookie's prime than your typical free agent. And it'll probably still be painful at the end of his deal.

Right, just like I said. Painful at the end is the cost of doing business. So do you think Andrew Friedman is dumb for operating this way with Mookie Betts?

the Orioles striking gold once ever isn't a plan

The organization that suspends a broadcaster for telling fans they have had quite a turnaround.

 

[smithformeragent]

My fiancée wants to go see them.

My wife tried getting tickets and didn’t win the lottery.

Checked out the rules.

Interesting.

If we went, I’d root for the Party Animals for sure.

 

[smithformeragent]

Oh, shit.

We’re going to a showdown.

Go, Party Animals!

 

[smithformeragent]

f***

 

[Fenway]

 

[smithformeragent]

Party Animals completely choked that away.

 

[Mione134]

Bananaball looks interesting...................

View attachment 736024

Genuinely one of the FUNNIEST things ive watched. Been a fan for years now. It's exciting and really awesome. I wanted to go see them when they come here to play in Brockton but tickets were sold out immediately.

 

[smithformeragent]

They are deadpan in their analysis of the Bananas’ bullpen.

 

[Mione134]

View attachment 736054
They are deadpan in their analysis of the Bananas’ bullpen.

They're the best!

 

[GatorMike]

And right with them are the Dodgers and Rangers.

Just because some don’t spend their money well doesn’t mean you shouldn’t spend.

Especially when you are a big market team with one of the highest revenues

The point was made that the Red Sox wouldn't be relevant without pursuing Betts level free agents.

I made the point that you don't have to sign premier free agents to be relevant.

I strongly suspect that the day will come when the Red Sox will flex their financial muscle again, but when that day comes, I doubt it will come in the form of a 10-year contract for a player whose best days are behind him.

the Orioles striking gold once ever isn't a plan

Yeah, the Orioles are not a fluke. They're not going to be a flash in the pan. They're set up to be highly competitive for at least the next five years. Maybe longer.

Right, just like I said. Painful at the end is the cost of doing business. So do you think Andrew Friedman is dumb for operating this way with Mookie Betts?

Dumb is the wrong adjective. Those types of deals are always calculated risks.

If his inevitable decline comes at age 37 after the Dodgers have won a couple more World Series, then the gamble paid off.

If the decline comes at age 33 and the Dodgers are on the hook for another six years and $180 million for someone who's a shadow of his former self, then he probably gets fired.

That said, the Dodgers were in a pretty decent position to take that kind of calculated risk in 2020. The Red Sox were not.

 

[Fenway]

Genuinely one of the FUNNIEST things ive watched. Been a fan for years now. It's exciting and really awesome. I wanted to go see them when they come here to play in Brockton but tickets were sold out immediately.

Looking at Stub Hub - they have NOTHING for the game in Brockton

Portland the get in price is $225 this weekend

Good Luck to them

 

[Mione134]

Looking at Stub Hub - they have NOTHING for the game in Brockton

View attachment 736070

Portland the get in price is $225 this weekend



View attachment 736071

Good Luck to them

That crazy but also incredible. It's a testament to everyone involved. It's really an experience. I know it's not for everyone, but I genuinely love watching them. Very jealous to those who get to go to a live game!
hats

 

[Fenway]

The paradox with the Red Sox is they are still drawing

FSG seems to be content that Fenway's true capacity is around 34,000

Janet Marie Smith is now saying she was not fired by the Red Sox but the City of Boston landmarks department would not allow a major reconstruction of the RF Grandstand and Bleachers.

The reality is the Sox are controlled by a woman who turns 45 years old next week.
Werner would love to get proxy control of the team but it is not likely.

 

[EvilDead]

If the reporting that the Red Sox offered Mookie 10-years, $300 million is accurate, that would have been the 2nd-largest contract in MLB history at the time it was offered. If he then countered at $400+ million, I have a hard time blaming ownership/management for believing that he was determined to get to free agency.

Betts is worth that money. You can't tell me any different.

 

[DKH]

So does that make Andrew Friedman dumb? (If you are actually talking Bogaerts I haven't really been talking about that one)

Bogaerts deal was nuts

Xander turned 30 and has some chronic wrist issue

Five years was a debateable term at 25-30 but 11 years is just mind blowing

I’m curious what they do with Soto

I don’t trust Soto and I wouldn’t go over 5 years and someone will give him maybe double

SD are renegades

 

[Johnnyduke]

Dumb is the wrong adjective. Those types of deals are always calculated risks.

If his inevitable decline comes at age 37 after the Dodgers have won a couple more World Series, then the gamble paid off.

If the decline comes at age 33 and the Dodgers are on the hook for another six years and $180 million for someone who's a shadow of his former self, then he probably gets fired.

That said, the Dodgers were in a pretty decent position to take that kind of calculated risk in 2020. The Red Sox were not.

A large market team like the Dodgers can overcome a singular "bad" contract to Betts for a few years. I think that's the whole point. If you are good at your job you can supplement the team with young talent. They sure as hell didn't give up a lot for Mookie so if you operate that way you aren't decimating your farm system while at the same time paying for top talent. You can't live in fear of a bad contract biting a team 7 years down the line. I just find that crazy. The downfall of Andrew Friedman will never be signing Mookie Betts to that deal. I fail to see how the Red Sox weren't in position to give Mookie what the Dodgers did. He is one of the best players in baseball. If they wanted to commit to him they could have and then worked around that. That's why you hire a GM from Yale. Nobody said the job was easy.

The paradox with the Red Sox is they are still drawing

View attachment 736080

FSG seems to be content that Fenway's true capacity is around 34,000

Janet Marie Smith is now saying she was not fired by the Red Sox but the City of Boston landmarks department would not allow a major reconstruction of the RF Grandstand and Bleachers.

The reality is the Sox are controlled by a woman who turns 45 years old next week.
Werner would love to get proxy control of the team but it is not likely.

I'm tired of the lipstick on a pig. People can get nostalgic about Fenway but it's a dump. There's a reason why Yankee Stadium was replaced. Do you lose some "charm"? Sure. But I think fans around here are deserving of a new ballpark by now. I don't go to games but I suppose the only problem with a new ballpark is ticket prices would only go up, up, up.

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

You can't live in fear of a bad contract biting a team 7 years down the line. I just find that crazy. The downfall of Andrew Friedman will never be signing Mookie Betts to that deal. I fail to see how the Red Sox weren't in position to give Mookie what the Dodgers did. He is one of the best players in baseball. If they wanted to commit to him they could have and then worked around that. That's why you hire a GM from Yale. Nobody said the job was easy.


I'm tired of the lipstick on a pig. People can get nostalgic about Fenway but it's a dump. There's a reason why Yankee Stadium was replaced. Do you lose some "charm"? Sure. But I think fans around here are deserving of a new ballpark by now. I don't go to games but I suppose the only problem with a new ballpark is ticket prices would only go up, up, up.

1. The first part is true, but you have to know when to shell out these contracts. What good does a Story-contract do for your when you are in the middle of a rebuild? All you do is wasting a few years of these guys prime years and it hurts your draft positions (which happen to have become very crucial for baseball too).

Assuming they would have extended Betts before trading him? It would have hurt their 2020 record by the amount that they couldn't have drafted Mayer.
Counterpart: It would have increased their chances in 2021 (but Mookie wasn't Mookie in 2021).
So many prime years wasted for one better opporunity at a title and less influx of drafted talent due to a better record. And assuming even the 2023 version of Mookie doesn't lead the Sox past their competition to the playoffs, you have a 31 year old Betts for 9 more years and nothing to show for. Certainly not more fans in the seats of Fenway as he's not really much of a draw. For that to happen you'd need to sign Ohtani.

And while Betts is back to being one of the better players in the game, he certainly wasn't in 2021. I still stand firm that I wouldn't have given him that contract. Maybe I am underestimating him, but at his height and other factors, I think there could be a steep drop off at some point. Defense has already regressed to the point that all of his value comes from the bat and baserunning (also declining rapidly).


2. They can milk the cow for a few more years, but at some point they are gonna need a new stadium. That's pretty much a foregone conclusion to me. They are just delaying the inevitable. Maybe they have some plan in place seeing that they buy a club like Liverpool who needs a new stadium as well.

I wouldn't even think it's gonna be more expensive for the average fan, but new stadiums have the opporunity to build in more (vip)-boxes. These are the ones that bring in the real money, at least that's what I know about Bayern and the Allianz Arena compared to other competitors like Dortmund, who have little to none of these boxes.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

A large market team like the Dodgers can overcome a singular "bad" contract to Betts for a few years. I think that's the whole point. If you are good at your job you can supplement the team with young talent. They sure as hell didn't give up a lot for Mookie so if you operate that way you aren't decimating your farm system while at the same time paying for top talent. You can't live in fear of a bad contract biting a team 7 years down the line. I just find that crazy. The downfall of Andrew Friedman will never be signing Mookie Betts to that deal. I fail to see how the Red Sox weren't in position to give Mookie what the Dodgers did. He is one of the best players in baseball. If they wanted to commit to him they could have and then worked around that. That's why you hire a GM from Yale. Nobody said the job was easy.


I'm tired of the lipstick on a pig. People can get nostalgic about Fenway but it's a dump. There's a reason why Yankee Stadium was replaced. Do you lose some "charm"? Sure. But I think fans around here are deserving of a new ballpark by now. I don't go to games but I suppose the only problem with a new ballpark is ticket prices would only go up, up, up.

If they build a new park they will lose the tourist that come to visit that dump, and it is a dump. Build a park on the waterfront we deserve better than Fenway,

 

[Johnnyduke]

1. The first part is true, but you have to know when to shell out these contracts. What good does a Story-contract do for your when you are in the middle of a rebuild? All you do is wasting a few years of these guys prime years and it hurts your draft positions (which happen to have become very crucial for baseball too).

I would certainly draw a distinction between shelling out a big contract to Story compared to Betts though. I am willing to do it for one of the premier players in the game. I agree with you that the Trevor Story contract never made any sense for the Red Sox.