Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VI: Hunt for the Wild Card is on

[Mr Cartmenez]

Prices for pitching are through the roof, even though I don't think the Rays overpaid by a lot. And the trade for Montgomery was IMO pretty favorable for the Rangers.

C'mon Bloom: Verdugo / Duvall and Paxton in a package deal to Philly for Abel+. Dombrowski has got to step up, the NL is slipping away from them.

The other remaining landing spot could be the Dodgers. They seem to be in on Verlander, but the money + NTC is making this complicated.

 

[GatorMike]

I don't look at it in any designated period of time other than there should never be a season where they are like 14th in payroll with the most expensive gameday experience. That just ain't right.

I think they've been pretty clear that they wanted to reset the CBT this year.

If they're still 12th in payroll next season, then I think any sort of disappointment with their overall payroll will be a bit more justified.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Also the Red Sox were still like 10 games over .500 when Dombrowski was fired. People can stop acting like this was a complete trash heap that needed a full rebuild. No, it needed some retooling and some different ideas. The COVID debacle season was followed by an ALCS trip. That should have been enough of a reset to already be better than they have been the last two years at the major league level.

I think they've been pretty clear that they wanted to reset the CBT this year.

If they're still 12th in payroll next season, then I think any sort of disappointment with their overall payroll will be a bit more justified.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it easily within Bloom's grasp to reset the CBT last year?

 

[Mr Cartmenez]

I think they've been pretty clear that they wanted to reset the CBT this year.

If they're still 12th in payroll next season, then I think any sort of disappointment with their overall payroll will be a bit more justified.

Plus it has turned out that pretty much no FA was worth investing huge money in. I was glad the Red Sox stayed out of it and waited another year. The only contract that would be looking ok by now is Swanson, but the Sox already had signed Story the year prior.

I honestly don't question their Henrys commitment to the team. It just has to be for the right free agents. I fully expect them to sign Yamamoto next off-season for like 150-200m.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I think they've been pretty clear that they wanted to reset the CBT this year.

If they're still 12th in payroll next season, then I think any sort of disappointment with their overall payroll will be a bit more justified.

oh no not more CBT talk. its the trade deadline.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

 

[quietbruinfan]

All that for Sewald, yikes.

 

[BernieMcAvoy]

2022 was the only year Bloom has done a bad job. Dealt a bad hand coming to the Sox with a Mookie trade coming, alcs in year 2 and there's been good progression this year. With the farm system stocked up they should be aggressive in the winter and trying to contend in 2024


I wouldn't say i want them to be sellers because i want them to buy if they can add guys with team control but with how injury prone Paxton is, his slipping velocity and the return being high for starting pitching i would trade him.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

FWIW, Duvall isn’t in tonight’s lineup.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Also the Red Sox were still like 10 games over .500 when Dombrowski was fired. People can stop acting like this was a complete trash heap that needed a full rebuild. No, it needed some retooling and some different ideas. The COVID debacle season was followed by an ALCS trip. That should have been enough of a reset to already be better than they have been the last two years at the major league level.


Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it easily within Bloom's grasp to reset the CBT last year?

A team with a young Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Devers and a system with Casas, Houck on the verge, while a thin prospect cupboard is hardly being handed a turd sandwich and a starting point any GM would be happy to take.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

oh no not more CBT talk. its the trade deadline.

Oh no, don’t talk about things I don’t understand!

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

 

[Johnnyduke]

2022 was the only year Bloom has done a bad job. Dealt a bad hand coming to the Sox with a Mookie trade coming, alcs in year 2 and there's been good progression this year. With the farm system stocked up they should be aggressive in the winter and trying to contend in 2024


I wouldn't say i want them to be sellers because i want them to buy if they can add guys with team control but with how injury prone Paxton is, his slipping velocity and the return being high for starting pitching i would trade him.

I would distinguish between doing a bad job and simply not doing a good enough job. I do think those are separate things. I don't think he's been a bad GM. But by this point of his tenure I don't think he's done quite enough. I know plenty of people disagree with that.

I agree that having to trade Mookie was not ideal but the team had plenty of other talent. So trading Mookie could have landed a decent return and helped the retooling process move along. Verdugo and Wong are nice pieces but not enough for Mookie Betts in my opinion. Granted I don't have access to what teams were willing to offer. But, Mookie did sign long term with the Dodgers. So it was a steal for them, you know, the team I was told we were going to be. It wasn't like the Dodgers didn't fully intend on resigning him.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

 

[CDJ]

Mariners selling Sewald off before playing them is nice

 

[GatorMike]

Also the Red Sox were still like 10 games over .500 when Dombrowski was fired. People can stop acting like this was a complete trash heap that needed a full rebuild. No, it needed some retooling and some different ideas. The COVID debacle season was followed by an ALCS trip. That should have been enough of a reset to already be better than they have been the last two years at the major league level.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it easily within Bloom's grasp to reset the CBT last year?

At the time Dave Dombrowski got fired...

* Chris Sale was 6-11 with an ERA in the mid 4s and had been shut down for the season two weeks prior. His 5-year, $145 million extension hadn't even started, yet. He's won 10 games for the Red Sox over the course of that extension.​

​

* David Price was in the midst of making two starts over the last two months of the season. As it turned out, his career as a starter was effectively over. The Red Sox owed him another $96 million over the following three seasons.​

​

* Nathan Eovaldi had two wins on the season, and sported an ERA approaching 6.00. He'd been fighting his own injury issues earlier in the year and had spent most of the season pitching poorly out of the bullpen. The Sox owed him another ~$60 million.​

That's $80 million/year for at least the next three season tied up in aging starting pitchers that would all prove to be unreliable, ineffective, or both. Retooling and different ideas wasn't going to keep those guys healthy. Sale and Price combined have won 17 games since DD got canned. Eovaldi at least gave them 21 wins over the final three seasons of his deal, but at a cost of $60 million.

Furthermore, there was little on the immediate horizon in terms of help from the farm system. If you have a roster littered with dead weight and devoid of young, cost-controlled players that will out-produce their contracts, your options aren't great.

The issue with the Red Sox in September of 2019 wasn't where the Red Sox were at that point in time. The issue was where they were headed.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Oh no, don’t talk about things I don’t understand!

since you care if Henry saves money do you follow the pens. is he over the cap?

 

[GatorMike]

since you care if Henry saves money do you follow the pens. is he over the cap?

Saving money isn't the reason why Bloom wants to stay under the CBT threshhold.

 

[Johnnyduke]

At the time Dave Dombrowski got fired...

* Chris Sale was 6-11 with an ERA in the mid 4s and had been shut down for the season two weeks prior. His 5-year, $145 million extension hadn't even started, yet. He's won 10 games for the Red Sox over the course of that extension.​

​

* David Price was in the midst of making two starts over the last two months of the season. As it turned out, his career as a starter was effectively over. The Red Sox owed him another $96 million over the following three seasons.​

​

* Nathan Eovaldi had two wins on the season, and sported an ERA approaching 6.00. He'd been fighting his own injury issues earlier in the year and had spent most of the season pitching poorly out of the bullpen. The Sox owed him another ~$60 million.​

That's $80 million/year for at least the next three season tied up in aging starting pitchers that would all prove to be unreliable, ineffective, or both. Retooling and different ideas wasn't going to keep those guys healthy. Sale and Price combined have won 17 games since DD got canned. Eovaldi at least gave them 21 wins over the final three seasons of his deal, but at a cost of $60 million.

Furthermore, there was little on the immediate horizon in terms of help from the farm system. If you have a roster littered with dead weight and devoid of young, cost-controlled players that will out-produce their contracts, your options aren't great.

The issue with the Red Sox in September of 2019 wasn't where the Red Sox were at that point in time. The issue was where they were headed.

And yet it still wasn't even close to being a full rebuild. Or at least it shouldn't have been. If people bought into that I don't know what to tell you. I wasn't a big David Price fan but he came up big in the WS run. So to help the franchise win a title that's the price you pay for shelling out a big contract. It was worth it. They didn't have to re-sign Eovaldi but he was another pivotal cog in a WS winner. The organization had plenty of talent and resources and they hired the dork off the assembly line to augment that with "smart" moves on the cheap etc. It wasn't a bad situation to inherit. The two young studs we have seen have the biggest impact on this year's team aren't even Bloom guys. They are Dombrowski guys. Obviously nobody knows if they would still be here under Dombrowksi but he is after all a HOF executive who never traded away anything that came back to bite the Red Sox. I suspect he may have just held on to Bello and Casas.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

since you care if Henry saves money do you follow the pens. is he over the cap?

Lmao

 

[CDJ]

Saving money isn't the reason why Bloom wants to stay under the CBT threshhold.

We’ve done it, we’ve officially hit the 1000th time this has been stated (and ultimately will be ignored)

 

[Johnnyduke]

We’ve done it, we’ve officially hit the 1000th time this has been stated (and ultimately will be ignored)

Congratulations on your achievement

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Duran is f***ing absurd lol

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

It's fun seeing other teams play pinball

 

[GatorMike]

And yet it still wasn't even close to being a full rebuild. Or at least it shouldn't have been. If people bought into that I don't know what to tell you. I wasn't a big David Price fan but he came up big in the WS run. So to help the franchise win a title that's the price you pay for shelling out a big contract. It was worth it. They didn't have to re-sign Eovaldi but he was another pivotal cog in a WS winner. The organization had plenty of talent and resources and they hired the dork off the assembly line to augment that with "smart" moves on the cheap etc. It wasn't a bad situation to inherit. The two young studs we have seen have the biggest impact on this year's team aren't even Bloom guys. They are Dombrowski guys. Obviously nobody knows if they would still be here under Dombrowksi but he is after all a HOF executive who never traded away anything that came back to bite the Red Sox. I suspect he may have just held on to Bello and Casas.

The biggest problem with the Red Sox over the past few years is that there's been very little margin for error. When you start the season with a boatload of dead payroll and no significant contributors making $850,000, you need a lot to go right in order to be competitive. Things went well in 2021, and not so well in 2020 and 2022.

Fielding productive young players and having payroll flexibility gives you a greater margin for error. You don't necessarily need everything to go your way to compete.

They needed to clear the albatross contracts off their books. They needed to gain payroll flexibility. And they needed to start producing young talent. To varying degrees, they've made painful decisions to accomplish all three of those goals, and I think it's starting to pay off.