Patriots/NFL 2023 Regular Season - 1-4: Week 6 @ Vegas

[KrejciMVP]

John Metchie
Robert Woods
Nico Collins
Tank Dell.

Better than what we have.

Juju is not a #1 WR and neither is Devante.



Other than Sunday's game, Mac was been pretty decent. You get growing pains with young QBs. Happened with Tua. Happened with Hurts. Happened with Lawrence and it happened with Josh Allen.

And what did these organizations do to help these QB's

Oh, that's right. Surround them with talent.

Those QBs are a different tier of player. Macs not close to them

 

[Mione134]

You can't have it both ways. If nobody on the pats is a #1 wr, then half the league doesn't have a #1 wr because statistically juju was better than anyone on many teams including all of those guys in Houston last year...only 20 teams had a wr go over 1,000 yds. Juju had 933.

Look at JuJu over the years. He puts up his best numbers when he's a number 2 gut. When the team has another #1. The Chiefs have Kelce as their #1 threat. Juju put up good numbers behind him but his knee is cooked.

He was good in Pittsburgh because he was behind Antonio Brown.

Juju is not a #1 here or anywhere else.

 

[Mione134]

BOB taking responsibility. Mac took responsibility. You know who hasn't? Bill.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Look at JuJu over the years. He puts up his best numbers when he's a number 2 gut. When the team has another #1. The Chiefs have Kelce as their #1 threat. Juju put up good numbers behind him but his knee is cooked.

He was good in Pittsburgh because he was behind Antonio Brown.

Juju is not a #1 here or anywhere else.

And that's fine if you feel that way. I'm just stating that if you don't consider him a legit #1, then about a third of the league doesn't have a legit #1. It's impossible to defend your statement that mac is "the only qb in the entire league" without one. You stepped in it with that one. It happens.

 

[smithformeragent]

They played this on F&M and I think RG3 hits the nail on the head.

Start at around 1:40.

 

[Mione134]

And that's fine if you feel that way. I'm just stating that if you don't consider him a legit #1, then about a third of the league doesn't have a legit #1. It's impossible to defend your statement that mac is "the only qb in the entire league" without one. You stepped in it with that one. It happens.

Name every team in the league, their QBs and WRS, compare them to ours and you tell me what you find.

Go ahead. I'll wait to see what you find.

They played this on F&M and I think RG3 hits the nail on the head.

Start at around 1:40.

RG3 has no business calling another QB not the guy

 

[Seidenbergy]

Name every team in the league, their QBs and WRS, compare them to ours and you tell me what you find.

Go ahead. I'll wait to see what you find.


RG3 has no business calling another QB not the guy

Lol. Instead of proving your point, you make me do the legwork for you so you can keep moving the goalposts...

Entering this season, the following teams had no legit #1 wrs using your criteria, not mine:

Texans
Panthers
titans
Cards
Packers
Colts
giants
browns

 

[MillerTime29Bombs]

The GM is the problem. The QB if you like Andy Dalton (0-5 in playoffs) or best case Tony Romo ( 2-4) then I guess the QB is not a problem? Best case they tank now that their Two best players are probably done for year. Draft a QB high in first round ( one of the big three) and let Mac play next year then let him find his backup gig with another team in year 5.

 

[CDJ]

Lol. Instead of proving your point, you make me do the legwork for you so you can keep moving the goalposts...

Entering this season, the following teams had no legit #1 wrs using your criteria, not mine:

Texans
Panthers
titans
Cards
Packers
Colts
giants
browns

You can split hairs If you want based on Juju’s receiving yards as the #2 option in an offense with a HOF QB throwing him the ball but the general point is that he has the worst offensive supporting cast in football. Given that his receivers got 1.6 yards of separation last week(average is 2.5) and his offensive line allowed a pressure on 52% of the drop backs that is probably accurate. Nobody is working with less. Bill deserves a ton of blame for that. You can probably get away with one or the other, but you’ll kill a QB if you’re lacking in both departments. Especially one as middling as Mac.

 

[KrejciMVP]

can easily argue JuJu has a horrible QB

 

[PatriceBergeron]

There’s only 5 teams in the entire league with worse or equal weapons to the Patriots:

Giants
Panthers
Colts
Bears
Texans (maybe)

Pair that with a line that can’t protect and what do you expect? Maybe Mac can play maybe he can’t, but the team ruined any chance of ever giving the kid a chance to find out between the supporting cast and the carousel of OCs.

 

[bb74]

and yet they had a superbowl team and Miami on the ropes a few weeks ago with a QB getting worse by week.

The Pats used to start slow and get better as the year went on. Their schemes and game plans would improve as they got more tape on themselves and the competition.

With these Pats they just start flat and decline from there.

Name every team in the league, their QBs and WRS, compare them to ours and you tell me what you find.

Go ahead. I'll wait to see what you find.


RG3 has no business calling another QB not the guy

Sometimes you don't need to be Gretzky to be able to understand Hockey.... How many of the best tactical / coaching minds actually were best in the business as players??? Not saying RG3 is either but he's seen more football up front and personal than just about anyone here and his take on Mac and Zach were both pretty reasonable.

 

[Mione134]

Lol. Instead of proving your point, you make me do the legwork for you so you can keep moving the goalposts...

Entering this season, the following teams had no legit #1 wrs using your criteria, not mine:

Texans
Panthers
titans
Cards
Packers
Colts
giants
browns

Fine I'll do the legwork for you then. These teams have a better WR core than the Pats and have players that have been #1 receivers, act like a #1, or will be a number 1 in the future. Some are 1st rounders. Look at the core.

Texans- Tank Dell, John Metchie, Nico Collins, Robert Woods.
Colts- Michael Pittman Jr, Josh Downs, Alec Pierce, Isaiah McKenzie.
Panthers- Adan Thielen, DJ Chalk, Jonathan Mingo, Laviska Shenault.
Titans- DeAndre Hopkins, Treylon Burks,
Kyle Phillips, Nick Westbrook-Ikhine.
Cards- Marquise Brown, Rondale Moore, Michael Wilson, Zach Pascal.
Packers- Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reed, Dontayvion Wicks.
Giants- Darius Slayton, Jalin Hyatt, Isaiah Hodgins, Sterling Shepard, Parris Campbell, Wan'dale Robinson.
Browns- Amari Cooper, Elijah Moore, Marquise Goodwin, Donovan Peoples-Jones, David Bell.


Put these WR cores against the Patriots. Which ones are the Patriots better than?

You tell me.

I see about 4 that are better just by first glance.

 

[smithformeragent]

Stay on topic and don’t make it personal.

Thanks.

 

[CDJ]

Fine I'll do the legwork for you then. These teams have a better WR core than the Pats and have players that have been #1 receivers, act like a #1, or will be a number 1 in the future. Some are 1st rounders. Look at the core.

Texans- Tank Dell, John Metchie, Nico Collins, Robert Woods.
Colts- Michael Pittman Jr, Josh Downs, Alec Pierce, Isaiah McKenzie.
Panthers- Adan Thielen, DJ Chalk, Jonathan Mingo, Laviska Shenault.
Titans- DeAndre Hopkins, Treylon Burks,
Kyle Phillips, Nick Westbrook-Ikhine.
Cards- Marquise Brown, Rondale Moore, Michael Wilson, Zach Pascal.
Packers- Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reed, Dontayvion Wicks.
Giants- Darius Slayton, Jalin Hyatt, Isaiah Hodgins, Sterling Shepard, Parris Campbell, Wan'dale Robinson.
Browns- Amari Cooper, Elijah Moore, Marquise Goodwin, Donovan Peoples-Jones, David Bell.


Put these WR cores against the Patriots. Which ones are the Patriots better than?

You tell me.

I see about 4 that are better just by first glance.

Only one I’d take the pats over is the Giants. Even then I think the Giants have more upside with Hyatt and Robinson (provider Wandale makes a full recovery)

 

[KrejciMVP]

how much money has been spent on offensive playmakers under Mac. Kraft opened the wallet for many FAs. I don't buy 1 word of Mac excuses

 

[DNE3]

how much money has been spent on offensive playmakers under Mac. Kraft opened the wallet for many FAs. I don't buy 1 word of Mac excuses

Bill and JuJu three-year $25mil hug and miss.

 

[Mione134]

Only one I’d take the pats over is the Giants. Even then I think the Giants have more upside with Hyatt and Robinson (provider Wandale makes a full recovery)

Texans, Colts, Panthers, and Giants for me.

 

[BernieMcAvoy]

You could get Mac a #1 wr and it still might not be a good fit. Mac would turn DK Metcalf into Dorial Green-Beckham. Tyreek Hill would make things happen after the catch but anything that makes Mac have to throw it 25+ yards down the field would be unreliable. Mac would have to have one of those elite short yardage guys like Michael Thomas was with Brees.


How many pass catchers do the Patriots have to get and have regress before it becomes the qbs fault?

Juju has sucked but he still had 78/933/3 last year as the second passing option for the Chiefs. Right now he's on pace for 47/340/0

Parker had the worst year since his rookie season when he played at least 13 games in his first with the Patriots.

Nelson Agholor in the three healthy seasons he had before joining the Patriots averaged 58/800/6 and with the Patriots it was 34/417/2. He had what would have been his third best game as a Patriot week 1 with Baltimore.

Jakobi Meyers had the 2nd best game of his career in his first game with Vegas.

 

[KrejciMVP]

You could get Mac a #1 wr and it still might not be a good fit. Mac would turn DK Metcalf into Dorial Green-Beckham. Tyreek Hill would make things happen after the catch but anything that makes Mac have to throw it 25+ yards down the field would be unreliable. Mac would have to have one of those elite short yardage guys like Michael Thomas was with Brees.


How many pass catchers do the Patriots have to get and have regress before it becomes the qbs fault?

Juju has sucked but he still had 78/933/3 last year as the second passing option for the Chiefs. Right now he's on pace for 47/340/0

Parker had the worst year since his rookie season when he played at least 13 games in his first with the Patriots.

Nelson Agholor in the three healthy seasons he had before joining the Patriots averaged 58/800/6 and with the Patriots it was 34/417/2. He had what would have been his third best game as a Patriot week 1 with Baltimore.

Jakobi Meyers had the 2nd best game of his career in his first game with Vegas.

100%

 

[Mione134]

You could get Mac a #1 wr and it still might not be a good fit. Mac would turn DK Metcalf into Dorial Green-Beckham. Tyreek Hill would make things happen after the catch but anything that makes Mac have to throw it 25+ yards down the field would be unreliable. Mac would have to have one of those elite short yardage guys like Michael Thomas was with Brees.


How many pass catchers do the Patriots have to get and have regress before it becomes the qbs fault?

Juju has sucked but he still had 78/933/3 last year as the second passing option for the Chiefs. Right now he's on pace for 47/340/0

Parker had the worst year since his rookie season when he played at least 13 games in his first with the Patriots.

Nelson Agholor in the three healthy seasons he had before joining the Patriots averaged 58/800/6 and with the Patriots it was 34/417/2. He had what would have been his third best game as a Patriot week 1 with Baltimore.

Jakobi Meyers had the 2nd best game of his career in his first game with Vegas.

You can't know unless you actually give him a good WR.

Nelson couldn't catch here. You know how many times that guy dropped a ball, missed and easy ball, or fumbled?

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Improve the QB, the WR core and it still won’t mean diddly as long as you have this horse shit offensive line.

 

[Mione134]

Improve the QB, the WR core and it still won’t mean diddly as long as you have this horse shit offensive line.

It still boggles my mind that it wasn't addressed for the past 2 seasons.

You can get a new OL coach, but it doesn't mean shit when you have nobody.

Not even DRAFTING one was embarrassing enough

 

[Seidenbergy]

You can split hairs If you want based on Juju’s receiving yards as the #2 option in an offense with a HOF QB throwing him the ball but the general point is that he has the worst offensive supporting cast in football. Given that his receivers got 1.6 yards of separation last week(average is 2.5) and his offensive line allowed a pressure on 52% of the drop backs that is probably accurate. Nobody is working with less. Bill deserves a ton of blame for that. You can probably get away with one or the other, but you’ll kill a QB if you’re lacking in both departments. Especially one as middling as Mac.

Not arguing any of that. I knew it would get twisted.

Fine I'll do the legwork for you then. These teams have a better WR core than the Pats and have players that have been #1 receivers, act like a #1, or will be a number 1 in the future. Some are 1st rounders. Look at the core.

Texans- Tank Dell, John Metchie, Nico Collins, Robert Woods.
Colts- Michael Pittman Jr, Josh Downs, Alec Pierce, Isaiah McKenzie.
Panthers- Adan Thielen, DJ Chalk, Jonathan Mingo, Laviska Shenault.
Titans- DeAndre Hopkins, Treylon Burks,
Kyle Phillips, Nick Westbrook-Ikhine.
Cards- Marquise Brown, Rondale Moore, Michael Wilson, Zach Pascal.
Packers- Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reed, Dontayvion Wicks.
Giants- Darius Slayton, Jalin Hyatt, Isaiah Hodgins, Sterling Shepard, Parris Campbell, Wan'dale Robinson.
Browns- Amari Cooper, Elijah Moore, Marquise Goodwin, Donovan Peoples-Jones, David Bell.


Put these WR cores against the Patriots. Which ones are the Patriots better than?

You tell me.

I see about 4 that are better just by first glance.

You...are....moving.....the...goalposts...

For the 18th time, you said mac jones was the only qb in the league to not have a legit #1 wr. Not entire corps.. one guy. To support your claim, now you are admitting you are including guys who MIGHT become a #1 or were one in the past.

Devante parker had a 1200 yd season with 9 tds pre pats.....but I can't include him I guess.

Juju 1450 and 7. Can't count him.

 

[Mione134]

Not arguing any of that. I knew it would get twisted.


You...are....moving.....the...goalposts...

For the 18th time, you said mac jones was the only qb in the league to not have a legit #1 wr. Not entire corps.. one guy. To support your claim, now you are admitting you are including guys who MIGHT become a #1 or were one in the past.

Devante parker had a 1200 yd season with 9 tds pre pats.....but I can't include him I guess.

Juju 1450 and 7. Can't count him.

Even team in the league has a #1 guy OR A GUY WHO THEY CONSIDER A #1. And those guys are all pretty much better than what Mac has.

Not moving goal posts.