2023 NHL Entry Draft

[DramaticGloveSave]

For the interested reader, read this post, and then read the two players' D year stat line.

R E V I S I O N I S M.

I’m talking traits. Traits>Stats.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I’m talking traits. Traits>Stats.

Not really, but okay.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Like just get a load of this argument everyone:

D year: 6 points in 29 games.
D+2: Best defenseman in Sweden, 28 points in 41 games.
Rookie year: 50 point season. Calder trophy.

Moritz Seider's development was average at best, everyone, nothing to see there. You see it every day in fact, nothing unusual about it at all.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Can't believe Smiths motor was able to tick enough to come back, steal the puck and give Perreault the clear break

 

[Goldenhands]

Bullocks. Seider displayed traits that Reinbacher never did. This is classic HF revisionist history. Didn’t like a player who ended up great? Well his development post draft was just stellar! This is the inverse of the blaming development when your guy sucks strategy.

I had Seider ranked 4th in his draft year, higher than anyone or any list. The offensive tools were pretty raw, but defensively he was just a beast of his own, you could see at that stage that he was going to be an elite shutdown defenseman with some interesting offensive tools to develop.

Reinbacher is in the same mold, the way he crushes players and closes gap quickly is really impressive, the way he thinks the game is pretty advanced at that stage of his development, displays great maturity, high IQ and his offensive tools are more impressive than Seider'ones in his draft year.

So what you get in Reinbacher is the total package, a kid who will play against the other teams top lines, a guy who can generate alot of offensive with steady defending.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Honestly we'll be at a point where if Matthew Wood turns out to be a special player, people here will be like ''what are you talking about Matthew Wood was always a fantastic skater'' 5 years from now.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Honestly we'll be at a point where if Matthew Wood turns out to be a special player, people here will be like ''what are you talking about Matthew Wood was always a fantastic skater'' 5 years from now.

Prospect history on these boards is absolutely f***ing garbage, to be honest.

Really interesting how many Jiricek, Nemec and Cooley fans there are on this board when I could count the amount of people who had anyone other than Wright at 1st overall on two hands.

 

[Bonin21]

Go for the combo: Smith and Perrault

 

[KevSkillz4]

I had Seider ranked 4th in his draft year, higher than anyone or any list. The offensive tools were pretty raw, but defensively he was just a beast of his own, you could see at that stage that he was going to be an elite shutdown defenseman with some interesting offensive tools to develop.

Reinbacher is in the same mold, the way he crushes players and closes gap quickly is really impressive, the way he thinks the game is pretty advanced at that stage of his development, displays great maturity, high IQ and his offensive tools are more impressive than Seider'ones in his draft year.

So what we get in Reinbacher is the total package, a kid who will play against the other teams top lines, a guy who can generate alot of offensive with steady defending.

If David Reinbacher can reach the same impact of Moritz Seider at NHL level, I would really like to grab him with Habs high pick.

 

[NotProkofievian]

If David Reinbacher can reach the same impact of Moritz Seider at NHL level, I would really like to grab him with Habs high pick.

Gotta buy the ticket to take the ride. The draft is about killing your darlings.

If we get boned by the lottery, and end up coming out of the draft with Reinbacher I'll be a happy camper. He's a good pick with the information available to us today.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Like just get a load of this argument everyone:

D year: 6 points in 29 games.
D+2: Best defenseman in Sweden, 28 points in 41 games.
Rookie year: 50 point season. Calder trophy.

Moritz Seider's development was average at best, everyone, nothing to see there. You see it every day in fact, nothing unusual about it at all.

Not sure why you feel the need to straw man here. We are talking about a specific ability, playmaking.

I had Seider ranked 4th in his draft year, higher than anyone or any list. The offensive tools were pretty raw, but defensively he was just a beast of his own, you could see at that stage that he was going to be an elite shutdown defenseman with some interesting offensive tools to develop.

Reinbacher is in the same mold, the way he crushes players and closes gap quickly is really impressive, the way he thinks the game is pretty advanced at that stage of his development, displays great maturity, high IQ and his offensive tools are more impressive than Seider'ones in his draft year.

So what you get in Reinbacher is the total package, a kid who will play against the other teams top lines, a guy who can generate alot of offensive with steady defending.

Funny because my view of him was very different. What made Seider such a great prospect to me was the sky high offensive potential. No doubt he was big, physical, and was a great skater, but it was his offensive ability that made him special.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Bullocks. Seider displayed traits that Reinbacher never did. This is classic HF revisionist history. Didn’t like a player who ended up great? Well his development post draft was just stellar! This is the inverse of the blaming development when your guy sucks strategy.

Not sure why you feel the need to straw man here. We are talking about a specific ability, playmaking.

Right, so how would you describe Seider's development? Because here you seem to be ridiculing the idea that Seider had a spectacular development (which is just a matter of fact, for any prospect his progress has been phenomenal), and it's not the first time.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Right, so how would you describe Seider's development? Because here you seem to be ridiculing the idea that Seider had a spectacular development (which is just a matter of fact, for any prospect his progress has been phenomenal), and it's not the first time.

I’m not talking about Seiders development lol hence your straw man.

I’m simply stating Seider had displayed excellent playmaking ability prior to being drafted. Reinbacher has not.

 

[Goldenhands]

Can't believe Smiths motor was able to tick enough to come back, steal the puck and give Perreault the clear break

We will see how Smith does against the big teams, USA is in a pretty weak group, its too easy for them right now.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I’m not talking about Seiders development lol hence your straw man.

I’m simply stating Seider had displayed excellent playmaking ability prior to being drafted. Reinbacher has not.

You very clearly are. You are responding to a post that makes the claim that Seider's development was exceptional, and you call it revisionist history. And like I said it's not the first time you've balked at the claim that Seider's development was exceptional.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

We will see how Smith does against the big teams, USA is in a pretty weak group, it’s too easy for them right now.

Yup. Seems US has a bit of a cupcake schedule, haven’t learned much yet.

You very clearly are. You are responding to a post that makes the claim that Seider's development was exceptional, and you call it revisionist history. And like I said it's not the first time you've balked at the claim that Seider's development was exceptional.

We are talking about playmaking. Another poster is saying they developed that ability post draft. I’m saying I saw it beforehand. He absolutely developed well, but the traits were clear before the draft.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yup. Seems US has a bit of a cupcake schedule, haven’t learned much yet.


We are talking about playmaking. Another poster is saying they developed that ability post draft. I’m saying I saw it beforehand. He absolutely developed well, but the traits were clear before the draft.

We can all read the posts.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

We can all read the posts.

Seider was taken 6th overall for a reason. He didn’t just develop well, he was a rare talent. It would be surprising if Reinbacher were drafted that high.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Here's @DramaticGloveSave making the exact same claim (that Seider's development being exceptional is somehow revisionist) a year ago, and this discussion has nothing to do with playmaking ability specifically. Much like @le_sean never reference playmaking ability specifically.

2022 NHL Entry Draft 8

Rieger and Matthew Wood, fk yes I'm pretty excited to see Matt Morden on this team. He's the first player from old high school to be named directly to a HC team. Some talent rolling out of there these days: Newhook, Foegele, Morgan Barron, Cam Hillis, Andonovski, Kody Clark, now Morden. Funny...

forums.hfboards.com

But sure, I'm strawmanning you by pointing out that yes, in fact, Seider's development was exceptional.

 

[HabsForHire]

Seider was taken 6th overall for a reason. He didn’t just develop well, he was a rare talent. It would be surprising if Reinbacher were drafted that high.

I feel alot of people are trying to hard to get the next Seider when Reinbacher is just not as good of a prospect plain and simple. I don't want him at 5 or 6....maybe 7

 

[NotProkofievian]

Seider was taken 6th overall for a reason. He didn’t just develop well, he was a rare talent. It would be surprising if Reinbacher were drafted that high.

Right, and @Goldenhands has that reason right. He also agrees with me on Reinbacher, probably because both of us have actually watched his NL play. I don't even know what you're arguing against, it's a matter of historical fact that Seider developed like gang busters.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Here's @DramaticGloveSave making the exact same claim (that Seider's development being exceptional is somehow revisionist) a year ago, and this discussion has nothing to do with playmaking ability specifically. Much like @le_sean never reference playmaking ability specifically.

2022 NHL Entry Draft 8

Rieger and Matthew Wood, fk yes I'm pretty excited to see Matt Morden on this team. He's the first player from old high school to be named directly to a HC team. Some talent rolling out of there these days: Newhook, Foegele, Morgan Barron, Cam Hillis, Andonovski, Kody Clark, now Morden. Funny...

forums.hfboards.com

But sure, I'm strawmanning you by pointing out that yes, in fact, Seider's development was exceptional.

Watching Seider at the WCs, it was obvious he was a special talent. He was taken 6th for a reason. If you couldn’t see it in him, not sure what to tell you.

 

[McGees]

 

[NotProkofievian]

Watching Seider at the WCs, it was obvious he was a special talent. He was taken 6th for a reason. If you couldn’t see it in him, not sure what to tell you.

I'm not arguing that he wasn't a great prospect, and that he didn't deserve his 6th overall selection. I'm saying that he developed extremely well. You called that revisionist, multiple times, and that's been shown to be incorrect.

If what Seider was to become was obvious at the time, he would have been selected ahead of Byram and Kakko.

 

[Jack Skellington]

Watching Seider at the WCs, it was obvious he was a special talent. He was taken 6th for a reason. If you couldn’t see it in him, not sure what to tell you.

Do you remember where you had him ranked this time in 2019?