2023 NHL Entry Draft

[WeThreeKings]

No, a poor argument is entertaining the fact he might have higher potential than Carlsson, like you did.

Don’t care about playstyles. He’s a natural centre. You have Suzuki, Dach, PLD who are all centres, along with a good one coming in Beck. Dvorsky is not a need, despite being shoot-first. It would be smarter to find an elite winger, which there are plenty of in the 5-12 range.

And if you want a center, then pick a center who actually plays the center role effectively offensively.

The only reason anyone would project Dvorsky at C right now is his defensive zone play and face-off skills. His game does not really resemble a protoypical center in the neutral and offensive zone, and currently I can't think of a single winger that we'd have, on the team or in system, that could provide the complements he needs.

Good prospect, not a top 7 based on what we've seen this year, and not really a fit.

 

[le_sean]

And if you want a center, then pick a center who actually plays the center role effectively offensively.

The only reason anyone would project Dvorsky at C right now is his defensive zone play and face-off skills. His game does not really resemble a protoypical center in the neutral and offensive zone, and currently I can't think of a single winger that we'd have, on the team or in system, that could provide the complements he needs.

Good prospect, not a top 7 based on what we've seen this year, and not really a fit.

True, if I really wanted to roll the dice on an effective centre at 7+, I would reach a bit on Danielson. I find he has all of the tools you want to eventually become a good 2nd line centre.

 

[Egresch]

I still like Dvorsky but he didn't take the steps you want to see a prospect make this year.

He improved a lot. Defense was his weakness and now he is arguably the best two-way forward in the draft. Offensively, he had similar season as Carlsson had last year while Dvorsky is 6 months younger.

If he doesn't show better handling skills, puck carrying ability and a playmaking game at the u18s why is he worth a top 7 pick?

Anyway, you are right. He still has several areas to improve, but very interesting prospect (he will go top 10). I agree Habs should look for different positions (unless Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson).

 

[SOLR]

No, a poor argument is entertaining the fact he might have higher potential than Carlsson, like you did.

Don’t care about playstyles. He’s a natural centre. You have Suzuki, Dach, PLD who are all centres, along with a good one coming in Beck. Dvorsky is not a need, despite being shoot-first. It would be smarter to find an elite winger, which there are plenty of in the 5-12 range.

Lol so you are blaming me for illustrating the delta of his potential? I never said he would be better than Carlsson, I said he could be (and if I remember correctly, I was talking about their potential as centers specifically, not their potential as players, where Dvorsky is way ahead of Carlsson defensively).

This is a new low...you clearly don't understand what a delta of possibilities is, black and white world right? Most of my arguments about prospects are probabilistic in nature because I recognize that I can be wrong and see many outcomes for each prospect (unlike you it seems).

You can't have too many centers. They can all play wing. Again, when it comes to drafting, needs make for poor arguments, we don't know where we'll be at the center in 3 years when Dvorsky is ready.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol so you are blaming me for illustrating the delta of his potential? I never said he would be better than Carlsson, I said he could be (and if I remember correctly, I was talking about their potential as centers specifically, not their potential as players, where Dvorsky is way ahead of Carlsson defensively).

This is a new low...you clearly don't understand what a delta of possibilities is, black and white world right? Most of my arguments about prospects are probabilistic in nature because I recognize that I can be wrong and see many outcomes for each prospect (unlike you it seems).

You can't have too many centers. They can all play wing. Again, when it comes to drafting, needs make for poor arguments, we don't know where we'll be at the center in 3 years when Dvorsky is ready.

Its not like Dubois has never played at wing too.

Im down with Dvorsky but I cant lie, I would be disappointed.

 

[le_sean]

Lol so you are blaming me for illustrating the delta of his potential? I never said he would be better than Carlsson, I said he could be (and if I remember correctly, I was talking about their potential as centers specifically, not their potential as players, where Dvorsky is way ahead of Carlsson defensively).

This is a new low...you clearly don't understand what a delta of possibilities is, black and white world right? Most of my arguments about prospects are probabilistic in nature because I recognize that I can be wrong and see many outcomes for each prospect (unlike you it seems).

You can't have too many centers. They can all play wing. Again, when it comes to drafting, needs make for poor arguments, we don't know where we'll be at the center in 3 years when Dvorsky is ready.

Yeah the delta of possibilities. Like there’s a small chance the last overall pick will be better than Bedard in his career.

You’re just backtracking since Dvorsky has fallen flat recently whereas Carlsson’s projection keeps skyrocketing. You literally pointed to their production and said Dvorsky is 6 months younger. Stop trying to be coy.

Spoiler alert: six months from now today’s version of Carlsson will still be miles ahead of Dvorsky.

I also am aware you can’t have too many centres. That wasn’t my argument. The argument is he hasn’t cemented himself as the obvious pick. He’s in fact dropping. The fact we don’t need a centre comes into play then. I wouldn’t be saying no to Fantilli or Carlsson at 2nd overall since their talent is a clear level above everyone else not named Bedard.

 

[Egresch]

His game does not really resemble a protoypical center in the neutral and offensive zone, and currently I can't think of a single winger that we'd have, on the team or in system, that could provide the complements he needs.

Filip Mešár is actually very good example. Playmaking winger, dynamic skater who can do the transition. But honestly, Dvorsky does not fit well to Habs structure and we should not focus on him.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think lowering Dvorsky on your list because of needs would be absolutely silly. Not only could he be very effective as a winger if need be, his skill set absolutely fills a need as a sick left handed shooter.

I also don’t get anyone knocking his traits. His traits across the board are the best of any player in this draft outside the top 4. In fact from a pure traits grade perspective he’s in that tier. Obviously he didn’t have the year Carlsson did (when comparing stats, Carlssson is the guy you can do that with since they are both in euro men’s leagues), but as has already been pointed out he’s younger- one of the youngest players in the discussion for our pick.

I think the simple answer is that he just wasn’t able to get comfortable against men, but dominated when playing his peers. Think we will see that again at the U18s.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I think lowering Dvorsky on your list because of needs would be absolutely silly. Not only could he be very effective as a winger if need be, his skill set absolutely fills a need as a sick left handed shooter.

I also don’t get anyone knocking his traits. His traits across the board are the best of any player in this draft outside the top 4. In fact from a pure traits grade perspective he’s in that tier. Obviously he didn’t have the year Carlsson did (when comparing stats, Carlssson is the guy you can do that with since they are both in euro men’s leagues), but as has already been pointed out he’s younger- one of the youngest players in the discussion for our pick.

I think the simple answer is that he just wasn’t able to get comfortable against men, but dominated when playing his peers. Think we will see that again at the U18s.

I don't like drafting for need but Dvorsky+ Dach seems like a very good potential pair : alternate at center / wing, one pass first + one shoot first player

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I don't like drafting for need but Dvorsky+ Dach seems like a very good potential pair : alternate at center / wing, one pass first + one shoot first player

Dach, Slafkovsky, Mesar, Suzuki, RHP…

Dvorsky could fit next to anyone. This team lacks a shooter outside of Caufield and that became painfully evident after Cole got hurt. Dvorsky could be that left handed shot on the other side on the PP, can even win the face off for you…

 

[BLONG7]

Always.............BPA, always....

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

A funny thought I had when watching Dvorsky, Benson and Smith…

When looking at their absolute ceiling they kind of look like the Lightning trio- Stamkos, Point and Kucherov lol

I also have to say the more I watch Smith the more I like him. I think his “issues” are overblown, he’s more inconsistent in those areas. He’s another guy who grades prettt highly across the board, currently 6th for me behind Dvorsky and the big 4 with Benson on his heels.

I haven’t spent a ton of time scouting the D yet, but Reinbacher looks like a Guhle type to me so as much as I like that, tough to take that in the top 8 over forwards who look like top 6ers.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think lowering Dvorsky on your list because of needs would be absolutely silly. Not only could he be very effective as a winger if need be, his skill set absolutely fills a need as a sick left handed shooter.

I also don’t get anyone knocking his traits. His traits across the board are the best of any player in this draft outside the top 4. In fact from a pure traits grade perspective he’s in that tier. Obviously he didn’t have the year Carlsson did (when comparing stats, Carlssson is the guy you can do that with since they are both in euro men’s leagues), but as has already been pointed out he’s younger- one of the youngest players in the discussion for our pick.

I think the simple answer is that he just wasn’t able to get comfortable against men, but dominated when playing his peers. Think we will see that again at the U18s.

What?

I don't think you are properly grading his handling, playmaking, vision, or skating at all.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

What?

I don't think you are properly grading his handling, playmaking, vision, or skating at all.

Watch him against his peers. He’s able to show those things off against his own age level.

 

[bcv]

Watch him against his peers. He’s able to show those things off against his own age level.

so did Sebastian Collberg and countless other players.

Also, he's not showing all those things off against J20. His handling didn't suddenly become a strength of his nor did his playmaking and skating.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Dalibor Dvorsky



Length 60

Strength 60

Hands 50

Shot 65

Speed 50

Edges 50

Smarts 60

Vision 55

Effort 55

Physicality 55

What exactly do folks disagree with here

 

[Fatbiggie]

U18 coaching staff named. We should start hearing about players accepting invitations.

Canada names coaching staff for IIHF Under-18 world championship | TSN

Jeff Truitt has been named the head coach for the upcoming IIHF Under-18 World Championship, Hockey Canada announced Tuesday.

www.tsn.ca

Tournament starts April 20th, so only 9 days away.

I believe goalkeeper Gabriel D'Aigle of Victoriaville (QMJHL) has already accepted an invitation. Carson Bjarnason should also get an invite.

Goaltending should be good.

Defense: Caden Price, Lukas Dragicevic, Jordan Tourigny, probably Cam Allen, Carter Yakemchuk ('24), Tristan Bertucci is a pretty good start.

There's a ton of quality forwards to choose from, including Cristall, Barlow, Ritchie, Wood, Lardis, Howe ('24), Masse ('24), etc, etc.

Bedard is too good for this level probably WCs for him.

It should at least be a much better team than 2022.

Too bad Moncton won last night, I would have love to see Morin on that team. He’s having a hell of a season

 

[ginomini]

Dalibor Dvorsky



Length 60

Strength 60

Hands 50

Shot 65

Speed 50

Edges 50

Smarts 60

Vision 55

Effort 55

Physicality 55

What exactly do folks disagree with here

I mean, I can't really grade players like that on numerical scales without comparatives tbh. This is a bit random.

But if I go the comparative route, he would only grade higher than Smith and Benson in Length (like physical size?), Shot, Physicality and effort (only for Smith).

And tbh, Size, effort, physicality sounds more like characteristics you want out of complementary players.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I mean, I can't really grade players like that on numerical scales without comparatives tbh. This is a bit random.

It’s the 20-80 scouting scale with 50 being average.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Watch him against his peers. He’s able to show those things off against his own age level.

I have watched him and I haven't really seen it, even in the J20 play-offs he scored a lot of goals and yet didn't manage to pot more than a couple of assists.

A player who is elite against his age group in carrying skills, puck handling, vision and passing can rattle off more than 2 assists.

He's able to get his shot off more and he's able to get inside more easily. Which makes sense because he's not going up against grown men.

Good prospect but his skills package is certainly not as good as Benson, Smith, Yager, Sale or Leonard. I would even put Moore up against him as far as the overall skills package.

Where Dvorsky earns points is his polish defensively, his face-off skills and that he definitely owns the best shot of the group except possibly Yager.

If I'm betting on a PPG player in that group it's Smith, Benson, Sale, Yager, Leonard then Dvorsky. If someone wants to argue that Dvorsky's defensive abilities would erase the skill deficit as far as goals scored vs. conceded on the ice, I'll listen to it.. but I don't have any evidence to support high end skills offensively outside of his shot right now.

 

[SOLR]

Yeah the delta of possibilities. Like there’s a small chance the last overall pick will be better than Bedard in his career.

You’re just backtracking since Dvorsky has fallen flat recently whereas Carlsson’s projection keeps skyrocketing. You literally pointed to their production and said Dvorsky is 6 months younger. Stop trying to be coy.

Spoiler alert: six months from now today’s version of Carlsson will still be miles ahead of Dvorsky.

I also am aware you can’t have too many centres. That wasn’t my argument. The argument is he hasn’t cemented himself as the obvious pick. He’s in fact dropping. The fact we don’t need a centre comes into play then. I wouldn’t be saying no to Fantilli or Carlsson at 2nd overall since their talent is a clear level above everyone else not named Bedard.

Now you are obviously trolling.

I'm not backtracking at all, I still think Dvorsky can be better than Carlsson at 25, probability of 20% , equals another 20%, lesser than 60% - those are the odds I'm thinking of right now. When you quote me on this in 6 month to score hfboards points, make sure to include this phrase.

6 months from now it's not a timescale that anyone in scouting uses in any way. The question is, in their respective prime what happens? Unless you can predict 7 years from now, I think you show a little more humility and civility.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I have watched him and I haven't really seen it, even in the J20 play-offs he scored a lot of goals and yet didn't manage to pot more than a couple of assists.

A player who is elite against his age group in carrying skills, puck handling, vision and passing can rattle off more than 2 assists.

He's able to get his shot off more and he's able to get inside more easily. Which makes sense because he's not going up against grown men.

Good prospect but his skills package is certainly not as good as Benson, Smith, Yager, Sale or Leonard. I would even put Moore up against him as far as the overall skills package.

Where Dvorsky earns points is his polish defensively, his face-off skills and that he definitely owns the best shot of the group except possibly Yager.

If I'm betting on a PPG player in that group it's Smith, Benson, Sale, Yager, Leonard then Dvorsky. If someone wants to argue that Dvorsky's defensive abilities would erase the skill deficit as far as goals scored vs. conceded on the ice, I'll listen to it.. but I don't have any evidence to support high end skills offensively outside of his shot right now.

I’ve seen him QB a PP at the WJC. His vision and puck skills were pretty evident there. He’s not Will Smith in that regard but it still is very much top 6 calibre.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I’ve seen him QB a PP at the WJC. His vision and puck skills were pretty evident there. He’s not Will Smith in that regard but it still is very much top 6 calibre.

I respect that is your view point but I did not see that at all, and I was specifically looking for it.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I respect that is your view point but I did not see that at all, and I was specifically looking for it.

I get that it’s hard to find due to the various roles he’s played, but I think he will show these skills in abundance at the U18s where he will be top dog for Slovakia.

 

[SlafySZN]

Was he playing on PP1 with him i dont remember? I know that the first regular line was Slaf - Repcik - Mesar and the 2nd line was Molndar - Dvorsky - Sykora. Anyway i watched maybe 5 games of AIK this season and i dont think any player could do much better on that terrible 3rd line. I am personally not that high on Dvorsky, hopefully he proves me wrong on the U18 tournament.

Yes, the PP was a big part of Dvorsky’s success playing with Slaf on it. He was younger and has a great shot so i’m not trying to say he was bad obviously lol he had a good tournament playing with Ciernik and Molnar.

but he didn’t outperformed Slaf at all, that’s where i saw Slaf for the first time and he was everywhere, easily their best player.