2023 NHL Entry Draft

[DramaticGloveSave]

Noticed the Recrutes' podcast was up a few hours ago and decided to listen in.

McCagg doubling down on But as having higher upside in the NHL..........than Michkov. And that But could very well go higher than Michkov. And that the Habs should take But over Michkov.

There's the bold take, the scorching hot take, the troll take, the outright blasphemous take..............and now the final level has been achieved, the McCagg take.

But, like Slaf, is a pretty rare player. Guys his size that can move like him and have that skill level don’t come around often.

That said, these type are more rare than good. Sure the upside is huge but most likely they just end up your standard rare player who consistently underwhelms as they just don’t have the IQ despite elite tools.

 

[River Meadow]

Anyone worried enough about Benson's size to draft bigger players ahead of him at 5? i.e Smith, etc..

 

[NeptunesTrident]

Calum Ritchie and Cam Allan were once considered mid-top 1st rd picks but their play has pushed them down boards. If they fell to the 2nd rd would any of you pick one?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Assuming we’re picking 5-7, and if the draft were held tonight… I think my guy would be Dvorsky. I don’t want to do the Slovak thing but maybe it would be good for chemistry?

But the reason I like him is that he’s just such a good well rounded player. Good size, good skater (don’t get the skating knocks), good skill, smart, competes hard, great shot, and even good at face offs. To me he’s a top 6 player all day, maybe not a superstar, but could be a heck of a 2nd line center or perhaps a Landeskog type as a 1st line LW with CC and Suzuki. Not as gritty as Landeskog but just a really good all around hockey player.

 

[Habby Patty]

Assuming we’re picking 5-7, and if the draft were held tonight… I think my guy would be Dvorsky. I don’t want to do the Slovak thing but maybe it would be good for chemistry?

But the reason I like him is that he’s just such a good well rounded player. Good size, good skater (don’t get the skating knocks), good skill, smart, competes hard, great shot, and even good at face offs. To me he’s a top 6 player all day, maybe not a superstar, but could be a heck of a 2nd line center or perhaps a Landeskog type as a 1st line LW with CC and Suzuki. Not as gritty as Landeskog but just a really good all around hockey player.

Not the type of player you pick at 5-7. We’re looking to add a star here. We already have Suzuki to play that role.

 

[River Meadow]

Not the type of player you pick at 5-7. We’re looking to add a star here. We already have Suzuki to play that role.

McCagg says most teams would have him in their top 7 still.

He produces well among his peers, and he's got some size.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Not the type of player you pick at 5-7. We’re looking to add a star here. We already have Suzuki to play that role.

Forcing a “star” could mean selecting a bust.

Dvorsky is a guy you win with. He’s also not some Chipchura type here, this is a legit top 6 guy. Who knows the upside but he’s a stud.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Forcing a “star” could mean selecting a bust.

Dvorsky is a guy you win with. He’s also not some Chipchura type here, this is a legit top 6 guy. Who knows the upside but he’s a stud.

From what I have seen he is good defensively for his age and has the third best shot of the draft I still like him at that position, better than the NA forwards. For me it is between him and Reinbacher. I am also high on ASP (8-12), he is dominant among peers and is not as bad defensively as people say from what I have seen of him in the SHL.

 

[HuGort]

No one really knows that.

But, we've been discussing for awhile that Montreal & Philadelphia are rumoured to be 2 clubs who won't draft Russians as long as the war is on. Both clubs didn't in 2022 draft. The new rumour is Montreal won't consider Michkov with their 1st only Florida's.

He isn't getting past Washington though.

If we wouldn't draft Michkov, there's no f***ing way they would ever consider But.

Montreal be excluding themselves from a lot of talent that way. For example, Michkov is head and shoulders the most skilled player at 5. His skill is rumoured to be equal to Bedard. That means if another V is best available goalie with our 2nd pick we pass, and so on and so on.

 

[calder candidate]

I agree, but NCAA gives you much more flexibility if the guy is not quite ready after 2 years.

It isn’t just for goalie, NCAA and Euro just have more flexibility for development vs. CHL.

 

[River Meadow]

To put into perspective how good Michkov is.

 

[Doublechin]

Assuming we’re picking 5-7, and if the draft were held tonight… I think my guy would be Dvorsky. I don’t want to do the Slovak thing but maybe it would be good for chemistry?

But the reason I like him is that he’s just such a good well rounded player. Good size, good skater (don’t get the skating knocks), good skill, smart, competes hard, great shot, and even good at face offs. To me he’s a top 6 player all day, maybe not a superstar, but could be a heck of a 2nd line center or perhaps a Landeskog type as a 1st line LW with CC and Suzuki. Not as gritty as Landeskog but just a really good all around hockey player.

If you want a Slovak you've got Dvorsky and Honzek both being potentially available and thats even with the Panthers pick in the 10s to 15ish

Just don't go for such a need with the 1st pick

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Anyone worried enough about Benson's size to draft bigger players ahead of him at 5? i.e Smith, etc..

It's not so much his size, but how he plays the game at his size. He's an in your face player, who doesn't shy away from contact. He's comparable to Marchand in his play style, but I would say he's even more physical. Issue is he's been injured in both seasons, although the injury this year was due to a seriously cheap shot.

Still his game is not dissimilar to Nic Robertson (but far more talented) who has never been able to stay healthy in NHL. Cody Glass has also had his career derailed by constant injuries as a junior.

Robbi Fabbri is another one who can't stay healthy.

It's becoming a concern of mine.

Calum Ritchie and Cam Allan were once considered mid-top 1st rd picks but their play has pushed them down boards. If they fell to the 2nd rd would any of you pick one?

Calum Ritchie. He's ppg on a really young team. He's really good in transition, and on the defensive side of the puck. At worst, he's a strong defensive center type. He has a terrific shot, but doesn't shoot enough. He needs to be a little less safe in his game, and challenge the defense more.

 

[NewEraGM]

If the Habs aren't taking Michkov based on nationality, they are taking a different (worst) Russian top 10.

Wilde is clueless. He will just vomit whatever Grant says

 

[WeThreeKings]

Forcing a “star” could mean selecting a bust.

Dvorsky is a guy you win with. He’s also not some Chipchura type here, this is a legit top 6 guy. Who knows the upside but he’s a stud.

Forcing a bunch of complementary, solid around players without high offensive upside also could mean creating a team that just can't score when it matters, god knows we've seen enough of those.

I don't see any reason to value Dvorsky's profile considering Suzuki, Dach already provide defensive ability on top of having superior offensive skill-sets.. and Owen Beck looks like the future at the 3 spot.

We may not get another chance to draft top 7, we better be drafting the highest offensive ceiling available to us without a major deficit (like Cristall's skating).

 

[River Meadow]

Forcing a bunch of complementary, solid around players without high offensive upside also could mean creating a team that just can't score when it matters, god knows we've seen enough of those.

I don't see any reason to value Dvorsky's profile considering Suzuki, Dach already provide defensive ability on top of having superior offensive skill-sets.. and Owen Beck looks like the future at the 3 spot.

We may not get another chance to draft top 7, we better be drafting the highest offensive ceiling available to us without a major deficit (like Cristall's skating).

Who do you suggest?

Benson scares me a bit. Y'all remember Gilbert Brule?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Who do you suggest?

Benson scares me a bit. Y'all remember Gilbert Brule?

Bedard
Carlsson
Fantilli
Michkov
Smith
Benson

Then I'd bet on the offensive upside of Leonard, Moore, Yager or Sale.. if we want to go the all around player route, Reinbacher makes the most sense, since he fits a massive need while providing a different type of defenseman to the line-up on the right side.

Leonard has great hands, a good shot, is a complete bulldog who wants to win every board battle.
Moore has elite skating with good offensive tools.
Yager has high end skating with a high end shot.
Sale has high end skill in every capacity that just needs to learn to create more off the cycle.

All 4 of those guys have a high-end tool to go with above average other offensive skills, and all of them are better skaters than Dvorsky.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Heidt is the guy that has been growing on me the most in the past couple weeks. The more video I watch, the more upside I see in the kid. He reminds me of a young Plekanec a bit with how complete his game is as a center, he just does it all, including important faceoffs. Excellent skater too, smallish but not tiny either. Excellent at distributing the puck, underrated shot, strong motor. There's just a ton to like there. TBH, I might like him more than Benson,Barlow, Cristall and co.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Heidt is the guy that has been growing on me the most in the past couple weeks. The more video I watch, the more upside I see in the kid. He reminds me of a young Plekanec a bit with how complete his game is as a center, he just does it all, including important faceoffs. Excellent skater too, smallish but not tiny either. Excellent at distributing the puck, underrated shot, strong motor. There's just a ton to like there. TBH, I might like him more than Benson,Barlow, Cristall and co.

He's definitely better than Barlow and Cristall.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Forcing a bunch of complementary, solid around players without high offensive upside also could mean creating a team that just can't score when it matters, god knows we've seen enough of those.

I don't see any reason to value Dvorsky's profile considering Suzuki, Dach already provide defensive ability on top of having superior offensive skill-sets.. and Owen Beck looks like the future at the 3 spot.

We may not get another chance to draft top 7, we better be drafting the highest offensive ceiling available to us without a major deficit (like Cristall's skating).

Smith has some nasty mitts, but is his upside really that much higher than Dvorskys to offset the floor? To me they grade similar, both have good size and skating, both are great playmakers in the ozone, Smith with the edge in skill and Dvorsky with the superior shooting. But where Dvorsky has him beat is the two way game and the subtleties that Dvorsky has that Smith lacks. Also I’m not sure Smith is explosive enough to be as dangerous on the rush in the NHL as he is at lower levels. I think both guys will be racking up most of their points in the ozone half court offence and on the PP.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Smith has some nasty mitts, but is his upside really that much higher than Dvorskys to offset the floor? To me they grade similar, both have good size and skating, both are great playmakers in the ozone, Smith with the edge in skill and Dvorsky with the superior shooting. But where Dvorsky has him beat is the two way game and the subtleties that Dvorsky has that Smith lacks. Also I’m not sure Smith is explosive enough to be as dangerous on the rush in the NHL as he is at lower levels. I think both guys will be racking up most of their points in the ozone half court offence and on the PP.

Yeah his upside is definitely much higher. They aren't even close to the same level of playmakers, in fact I'd say Dvorsky is a below average playmaker. He's certainly not great at zone entries or zone exits, either.

Dvorsky will require someone to do a lot of heavy lifting for him on the wing for him to be offensively effective. Dvorsky's offensive profile is closer to Heineman's as far as style than an actual center, it's just that he's a good face-off man and committed to the defensive side of the puck as a center.

Smith's offensive upside is high because his processor is so fast, his identification of passing lanes and the ability to hit those are basically elite. His hands are so good, as his ability to deceive and create shooting and passing lanes. These are all things that Dvorsky hasn't displayed and I don't think he'll be ever able to do it at a high level.

A top 7 pick on a 50-60 pt defensive/face-off center would be a huge waste of our pick. We're covered there.

 

[PavelBrendl]

McCagg says most teams would have him in their top 7 still.

He produces well among his peers, and he's got some size.

He doesn't just produce among his peers, he's utterly dominant. In the footage I've seen from J20, he dictates play end to end. He looks like a young Marian Hossa out there. He's clearly too good for the league - he's bigger, stronger and more skilled than anyone else out there. He was producing at 1.21 ppg last year and probably would have been a 1st rounder if he was eligible. This year he's produced 2.1 ppg, which is absolutely nuts. It's the highest production rate of any draft eligible player in the league as far as I can remember, all the way back to and including Anze Kopitar.

In Allsvenskan, he hasn't quite shown the same desire to be the guy. However, you do also have to consider he's a late birthday. He turns 18 days before the draft. I'd be willing to chock up his more apprehensive play to not being quite ready for pro hockey.

I was lukewarm on him but the more footage I dig into, the more I like him. At this point, the only way I'd be unhappy with Dvorsky is if we pass on Benson for him.

 

[lilmaxo]

Hummmm… i fell off my chair

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Yeah his upside is definitely much higher. They aren't even close to the same level of playmakers, in fact I'd say Dvorsky is a below average playmaker. He's certainly not great at zone entries or zone exits, either.

Dvorsky will require someone to do a lot of heavy lifting for him on the wing for him to be offensively effective. Dvorsky's offensive profile is closer to Heineman's as far as style than an actual center, it's just that he's a good face-off man and committed to the defensive side of the puck as a center.

Smith's offensive upside is high because his processor is so fast, his identification of passing lanes and the ability to hit those are basically elite. His hands are so good, as his ability to deceive and create shooting and passing lanes. These are all things that Dvorsky hasn't displayed and I don't think he'll be ever able to do it at a high level.

A top 7 pick on a 50-60 pt defensive/face-off center would be a huge waste of our pick. We're covered there.

Dvorsky just plays a pro game. Sometimes ceiling gets knocked just because a guy is well rounded, while the rawer talent gets bumped up for “upside” when the growth potential is in all the little thing they don’t do.

Dvorsky certainly has upside. His shot could be the best in the draft outside the top 4, he’s got good size already, enough where he can play physically against men at 17. The skating has improved to the point where I’d say it’s above average for his size, and the IQ and skills are there to rack up points.

For Smith to surpass Dvorsky for me, I need to see upside that is a cut above. Right now I’d say the ceiling is pretty close so Dvorsky gets the edge due to everything else. If Smith can grow or find another gear or develop his shot into an elite weapon I’ll put him above, but for now he’s pretty average across the board outside of his hands and playmaking.

 

[Gustave]

View attachment 679654Hummmm… i fell off my chair

Put me on life support immediately