2023 NHL Entry Draft

[le_sean]

Dvorsky's taking a beating in here because context is being neglected. Dvorsky at age 17 was matched up against opposing team's top lines at the WJC. He had to do this against both Canada and USA where they beat USA and took Canada to OT. He chewed up Team Canada centers in the face-off dot and spat them out. I really hope he gets to play in the U18. He'll torch it.

No one has said he’s a bad prospect. He’s Top-10 in a really strong draft.

The argument is that he’s just not at Carlsson’s level, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Fantilli and Carlsson are not in Bedard’s level and that doesn’t make them bad.

And again, you are mentioning faceoffs and two-way ability. That’s like saying we’d rather have Owen Beck over Logan Cooley.

Does Dvorsky winning faceoffs at the WJC against top lines put him ahead of Fantilli who was on the 4th line?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dvorsky is taking a beating (yet remaining top 10) because in every competition so far this year, he hasn't really shown a high end offensive game.

Bob McKenzies scouts say the same thing. He can rise in the back half of the year if he can show that hes more than a one timer on the PP.

 

[Schooner Guy]

No one has said he’s a bad prospect. He’s Top-10 in a really strong draft.

The argument is that he’s just not at Carlsson’s level, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Fantilli and Carlsson are not in Bedard’s level and that doesn’t make them bad.

And again, you are mentioning faceoffs and two-way ability. That’s like saying we’d rather have Owen Beck over Logan Cooley.

Does Dvorsky winning faceoffs at the WJC put him ahead of Fantilli who was on the 4th line?

I certainly have Carlsson ahead of Dvorsky but I don't think the difference is as wide as is being broadcasted here. I also think many are underestimating Dvorsky's offensive potential based on his shutdown role (which was very impressive especially for age 17). I remember way back when posters thought Phil Kessel and Peter Mueller were far better draft prospects than Jonathan Toews because they were flashier and more productive at the 2006 WJC during their draft year.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Pretty crazy that Dvorsky has developed an elite hockey brain in a couple weeks.. cause I've never seen one piece of evidence, ever, that he's smarter than Carlsson on the ice.

They have very different way to process the game. I think Dvorsky is smart in the way he positions himself in order to be in the best position possible, also he has very good perception of where his teammates are when he has the puck on his stick. That being said, I believe in a lot of situations he does not anticipate enough and I don't think he processes the game at the same speed as Carlsson. That being said I would not put hockey IQ as a weakness.

 

[McGees]

I can’t see us not taking one of the US players with at least one of our picks - Hughes knows them all too well.

 

[SOLR]

Yeah he’s someone that just jumped the rankings because of a strong U-18. That’s totally Carlsson.

You’re giving bonus points to a player because he’s more of a natural centre yet ignoring the fact that he’s worse at every basic facet of the game than the “non-centre”, who, by the way, is still a centre and is seen as such by basically the entire scouting community.

I'm ranking Carlsson ahead so I know who Carlsson is.

My issue is more along the lines of folks who constantly make arguments that aren't remotely true for the sake of ranking one player ahead of another one or worse winning a discussion on a forum (lol). The "scouting community" isn't some reference, they are wrong on half the players every year.

Carlsson is not universally better, he's faster, he's creating more offensive opportunities, he can play with men because he's quite a large body, etc.. Dvorsky is better at leading the PP, Dvorsky is better in front of the net (garbage stuff) etc etc. we can already see incredible faceoff / 2 way play from Dvorsky. They are different players with different skills. They are closer than they are far from each other as prospect quality go.

No one has said he’s a bad prospect. He’s Top-10 in a really strong draft.

The argument is that he’s just not at Carlsson’s level, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Fantilli and Carlsson are not in Bedard’s level and that doesn’t make them bad.

And again, you are mentioning faceoffs and two-way ability. That’s like saying we’d rather have Owen Beck over Logan Cooley.

Does Dvorsky winning faceoffs at the WJC against top lines put him ahead of Fantilli who was on the 4th line?

No! haha this is so ridiculous.

Patrice Bergeron just had a 20 years career proving you wrong.

 

[le_sean]

I'm ranking Carlsson ahead so I know who Carlsson is.

My issue is more along the lines of folks who constantly make arguments that aren't remotely true for the sake of ranking one player ahead of another one or worse winning a discussion on a forum (lol). The "scouting community" isn't some reference, they are wrong on half the players every year.

Carlsson is not universally better, he's faster, he's creating more offensive opportunities, he can play with men because he's quite a large body, etc.. Dvorsky is better at leading the PP, Dvorsky is better in front of the net (garbage stuff) etc etc. we can already see incredible faceoff / 2 way play from Dvorsky. They are different players with different skills. They are closer than they are far from each other as prospect quality go.

That’s what people always fall back on when they don’t know what to say. “Scouting community is often wrong”. They are usually pretty damn good for the top of drafts. And yes, it’s a reference because they watch both players a lot more than you and I. The general community is also right a lot more often than f***ing Grant “Michael McLeod” McCagg. There’s a reason he has a third rate scouting service and doesn’t work for an NHL team.

It’s like you’re denying climate change because one lunatic thinks it doesn’t exist when 98% of actual scientists do.

No! haha this is so ridiculous.

Patrice Bergeron just had a 20 years career proving you wrong.

You cherry picking Patrice Bergeron is the ridiculous argument. For every Patrice Bergeron there’s about 50 Jacob De La Roses. Just stop. Dvorsky isn’t Bergeron.

 

[TomKosto]

I'm ranking Carlsson ahead so I know who Carlsson is.

My issue is more along the lines of folks who constantly make arguments that aren't remotely true for the sake of ranking one player ahead of another one or worse winning a discussion on a forum (lol). The "scouting community" isn't some reference, they are wrong on half the players every year.

Carlsson is not universally better, he's faster, he's creating more offensive opportunities, he can play with men because he's quite a large body, etc.. Dvorsky is better at leading the PP, Dvorsky is better in front of the net (garbage stuff) etc etc. we can already see incredible faceoff / 2 way play from Dvorsky. They are different players with different skills. They are closer than they are far from each other as prospect quality go.



No! haha this is so ridiculous.

Patrice Bergeron just had a 20 years career proving you wrong.

Bergeron is probably the best two way player of all time...it's not like there is 3-4 him every draft.

 

[Mrb1p]

The Dvorsky hate is lame. Kids very good and honestly, probably a better prospect than any forward picked in 2022

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Bergeron is probably the best two way player of all time...it's not like there is 3-4 him every draft.

I dunno, when I listen to draft pundits on TV it seems that is very much the case.

 

[HuGort]

I would grab him with a late 1st personally, hopefully we can get one at the TDL.

Chances are we will. I would probably take a Bonk late first though. Be tough call

 

[bopeep]

I'm wondering who's going to be the US high/prep school player(s) to rocket up the draft lists at the end of the season... Chase Cheslock - big RHD headed to U. of St. Thomas, Zach Nehring - lanky RW going to play at Western Michigan, Jake Fisher - big C/LW on his way to N. Michigan or possibly Larry Keenan - LHD playing for UMass

 

[giovanni]

How would you guy rank Dvorsky, Benson, Yager, Smith vs last year Wright and Cooley? would Wright and Cooley be top 10 prospects in 2023?

 

[SOLR]

Bergeron is probably the best two way player of all time...it's not like there is 3-4 him every draft.

Exactly?

That’s what people always fall back on when they don’t know what to say. “Scouting community is often wrong”. They are usually pretty damn good for the top of drafts. And yes, it’s a reference because they watch both players a lot more than you and I. The general community is also right a lot more often than f***ing Grant “Michael McLeod” McCagg. There’s a reason he has a third rate scouting service and doesn’t work for an NHL team.

It’s like you’re denying climate change because one lunatic thinks it doesn’t exist when 98% of actual scientists do.


You cherry picking Patrice Bergeron is the ridiculous argument. For every Patrice Bergeron there’s about 50 Jacob De La Roses. Just stop. Dvorsky isn’t Bergeron.

1) I didn't endorse McCagg...I said there is an argument, a world where he could be right in this specific case.
2) 2 way top centers, Toews, Suzuki, etc etc. many of those - being better 2-way than a purely offensive player is very valuable.

 

[Mrb1p]

How would you guy rank Dvorsky, Benson, Yager, Smith vs last year Wright and Cooley? would Wright and Cooley be top 10 prospects in 2023?

Cooley and Wright both don't make the top 5, most likely slaf doesn't make the top 10. Do we use what we know today or on draft day? Either way, flip Nemec and Jiricek in the 2nd case.

Bedard
Michkov
Fantili
Carlsson
Jiricek
Nemec

At this point its murky. Cooley, Wright, Smith, Benson, Heidt, Dvorsky, Reinbacher, mintyukov, Nazar and a few others are all strong picks at this point. None of these have anything over the top 6 though.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I dunno, when I listen to draft pundits on TV it seems that is very much the case.

It's like trying to follow Craig Button and others when they define "generational" player. It has always amazed me how according to their definitions, there could be multiple generational players born in the same year.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

How would you guy rank Dvorsky, Benson, Yager, Smith vs last year Wright and Cooley? would Wright and Cooley be top 10 prospects in 2023?

I'll take a stab at it:

1. Cooley
2. Benson
3. Wright
4. Smith
5. Yager
6. Dvorsky

3 & 4 is debatable with Smith being a more apparently dominant force, but Wright is pretty good too.

5 & 6 is very close for me, all it takes is a few more watches to flip em.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Great day for Habs. Islanders just acquire BO HORVAT. Great move for them to make playoffs. Panthers will maybe miss that after that huge move.

Top 16 pick incoming ?!?!

 

[Jaynki]

Cooley and Wright both don't make the top 5, most likely slaf doesn't make the top 10. Do we use what we know today or on draft day? Either way, flip Nemec and Jiricek in the 2nd case.

Bedard
Michkov
Fantili
Carlsson
Jiricek
Nemec

At this point its murky. Cooley, Wright, Smith, Benson, Heidt, Dvorsky, Reinbacher, mintyukov, Nazar and a few others are all strong picks at this point. None of these have anything over the top 6 though.

Disagree on Slaf. Also, Wright and Cooley would be in the mix for 5-8 no doubt.

Slaf is right up there and probably way better than the 2023 prospects after the big four. He did some nasty things last season for a 17 years old.

Would you trade Slaf for the 5th overall pick in 2023? I would not, and not even close.

 

[Doublechin]

How would you guy rank Dvorsky, Benson, Yager, Smith vs last year Wright and Cooley? would Wright and Cooley be top 10 prospects in 2023?

Assuming both years were combined and draft was today

1.Bedard
2.Carlsson
3.Michkov
4.Fantilli
5.Smith
6.Benson
7.Cooley
8.Jiricek
9.Yager
10.Moore/Leonard/Barlow/Nemec (hard to pick one)

 

[Doublechin]

So you think player like Zach Benson, Will Smith, Brayden Yager, Colby Barlow would have been picked first overall and before Slaf in 2022?

You are entitked to your opinion but i have to disagree big time.

The 2022 draft was "weak" because there was no talent like Bedard but Slaf did some really nice things. I think he is in the conversation for top 5 in 2023. I think he would be one of the player a team would pass on Michkov.

Size might have been considered a a kicker but I'd personally consider most of them as top 5 last year, everyone on that list would be in the top 6 if they were added to last year's crop, Cooley and Jiricek would probably be the other 2 for me

 

[Mrb1p]

Disagree on Slaf. Also, Wright and Cooley would be in the mix for 5-8 no doubt.

Slaf is right up there and probably way better than the 2023 prospects after the big four. He did some nasty things last season for a 17 years old.

Would you trade Slaf for the 5th overall pick in 2023? I would not, and not even close.

Yeah I would. I had him 6th overall in a weak ass draft, of course I would one up one him in a better draft.

He didn't do much "nasty" things, no. Not on the level these guys are.

So you think player like Zach Benson, Will Smith, Brayden Yager, Colby Barlow would have been picked first overall and before Slaf in 2022?

You are entitked to your opinion but i have to disagree big time.

The 2022 draft was "weak" because there was no talent like Bedard but Slaf did some really nice things. I think he is in the conversation for top 5 in 2023. I think he would be one of the player a team would pass on Michkov.

Smith is producing more than Cooley and he can't crack the top 4. Theres no argument for Slaf. Yager and Barlow are not in the top 10, if they are theyre at 9.

 

[Jaynki]

Yeah I would. I had him 6th overall in a weak ass draft, of course I would one up one him in a better draft.

He didn't do much "nasty" things, no. Not on the level these guys are.


Smith is producing more than Cooley and he can't crack the top 4. Theres no argument for Slaf. Yager and Barlow are not in the top 10, if they are theyre at 9.

Do you think Smith would be picked before Cooley in the same draft ?

Some poster here are arguing over Moore / Smith.

Also, i used Bob List as a reference for the 5-10 players.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Do you think Smith would be picked before Cooley in the same draft ?

Some poster here are arguing over Moore / Smith.

Also, i used Bob List as a reference for the 5-10 players.

It would be close. Smith is producing more but Cooley is so competitive with a high motor.

 

[SOLR]

So you think player like Zach Benson, Will Smith, Brayden Yager, Colby Barlow would have been picked first overall and before Slaf in 2022?

You are entitked to your opinion but i have to disagree big time.

The 2022 draft was "weak" because there was no talent like Bedard but Slaf did some really nice things. I think he is in the conversation for top 5 in 2023. I think he would be one of the player a team would pass on Michkov.

Barlow is out of the top 10, I think Slaf would be slightly ahead but yeah Benson, Smith, and Yager are all better than Slaf by quite a bit. More dynamic, more complete, more range, more speed.

Assuming both years were combined and draft was today

1.Bedard
2.Carlsson
3.Michkov
4.Fantilli
5.Smith
6.Benson
7.Cooley
8.Jiricek
9.Yager
10.Moore/Leonard/Barlow/Nemec (hard to pick one)

I think Nemec would go 5th, he will turn out to be the player in the 2022 draft imo.