2023 NHL Entry Draft Discussion

[Nucker42]

Canucks are a dumb team and I still disagree with most of their short term decisions. However, lucky for them and fans it’s a very deep draft and unless they make another dumb decision like dealing their 1st then they should get a stud…. After the crazy top 4 I think the gap between 5-12 is pretty small. Here’s my top 12…. Canucks could get Yager or Cristall or trade down and grab Honzik and Bonk….

1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Mitchkov
5. Benson
6. Reinbacher
7. Smith
8. Moore
9. Dvorsky
10. Sale
11. Cristall
12. Yager

 

[gringo]

Pick is as good as traded just hope we can get a 2nd back

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

11th overall after basically being out of the playoff race since December just feels unfair

This is what bugs me. I'd be fine with it if say, we were the Habs who have a slew of young kids getting their feet went and a plethora of injuries that made them worse than they likely were. Unfortunately, we aren't. We just... threw away a season for "feel good wins"

Anywho, what's done is done. Ideally, we get a faller but Moore/Rienbacher seem like good targets. If we could somehow dump OEL with this pick, I'd be severely tempted to do just that.

 

[sting101]

11th overall after basically being out of the playoff race since December just feels unfair

and then we get to watch 63 picks go by before we make another

meanwhile Nashville who have been better over the last 2yrs decided to reboot and added

1st 1st 2nd 2nd 2nd 3rd 4th 4th 5th - Reid Schaefer Cal Foote and Tyson Barrie who they will flip at next years deadline and 10.25 in cap

 

[MS]

The mental backflips people have gone to in order to justify why it was totally inevitable, not effected at all by management and coaching choices, and actually a great thing for the franchise to move from 5th to 11th in the draft is really something. Doubly so after we just went through all that pain last season to draft 15th and have it all mean nothing for the future of the team.

Anyways... there will be a great player available at 11th. Regardless of if we draft that great player or not, it'll be fun to see how this draft plays out.

Of course it was inevitable they moved up.

This was never a bottom-5 roster or anything close to it and we were only sitting in that position for a bit because we received the worst goaltending any NHL team had received in the last 30 years over the first 50-odd games of the season. It was totally bizarre, totally unsustainable, and it was always going to correct when a healthy Demko returned, especially given how the schedule softened up late.

If you don't understand this, I really don't know what to say.

And again, this notion that they somehow went all-in for a meaningless run is total fan fiction. They shut down 3 key players for the season. They traded their leading goal scorer and best RHD for futures. The blueline for the last 25 games was mostly Abbotsford Canucks and NCAA UFA signings. They let Sheldon Dries get pancaked as the 3C every night. But this roster and the star players on it are nowhere near as bad as a whole bunch of other NHL teams.

 

[sting101]

This was never a bottom-5 roster or anything close to it and we were only sitting in that position for a bit because we received the worst goaltending any NHL team had received in the last 30 years over the first 50-odd games of the season. It was totally bizarre, totally unsustainable, and it was always going to correct when a healthy Demko returned, especially given how the schedule softened up late.

If you don't understand this, I really don't know what to say.

And again, this notion that they somehow went all-in for a meaningless run is total fan fiction. They shut down 3 key players for the season. They traded their leading goal scorer and best RHD for futures. The blueline for the last 25 games was mostly Abbotsford Canucks and NCAA UFA signings. They let Sheldon Dries get pancaked as the 3C every night. But this roster and the star players on it are nowhere near as bad as a whole bunch of other NHL teams.

Totally agree but its frustrating to come away from the season down 2-2nd round picks rather than a surplus and without cap space

 

[MS]

Totally agree but its frustrating to come away from the season down 2-2nd round picks rather than a surplus and without cap space

I get that, but it was always the way it was going to go. The only way to try and get this train back on the tracks was to burn draft picks and futures to clean up Benning's mess. Again, my frustration is that they've been too conservative about this, if anything.

Pressure is now on to make Myers/OEL/Boeser disappear.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

If we don’t get Bedard than I hope he goes to Washington. Watching Bedard feed Ovie would just be so much fun to watch.

 

[Peen]

Of course it was inevitable they moved up.

This was never a bottom-5 roster or anything close to it and we were only sitting in that position for a bit because we received the worst goaltending any NHL team had received in the last 30 years over the first 50-odd games of the season. It was totally bizarre, totally unsustainable, and it was always going to correct when a healthy Demko returned, especially given how the schedule softened up late.

If you don't understand this, I really don't know what to say.

And again, this notion that they somehow went all-in for a meaningless run is total fan fiction. They shut down 3 key players for the season. They traded their leading goal scorer and best RHD for futures. The blueline for the last 25 games was mostly Abbotsford Canucks and NCAA UFA signings. They let Sheldon Dries get pancaked as the 3C every night. But this roster and the star players on it are nowhere near as bad as a whole bunch of other NHL teams.

I think this is a copout answer. No one thought the true talent level of the roster was bottom five.

But that’s where they were. They were, on average, closer in points to the bottom five teams.

They had 39 points when Tocchet came in.

The five teams below them (SJ, Anaheim, Arizona, Columbus, Chicago) were all in the 30-37 range. They were right there. The only team that was trying to tank and doing better than us was Montreal.

If you look at the closest five teams around us by seasons end (Philadelphia, Ottawa, STL, Detroit, Washington) they had 47, 43, 49, 46, 56.

We were actually closer to the bottom five than we were to the next five teams that we ended up passing (sans Ottawa).

No one who is disappointed in what happened thinks the team overperformed its talent level. Their record wasn’t even that special. They played a lot of bad teams and were worse under Tocchet than they were under BB from a pure results standpoint (13th vs 11th).

They iced Dries and an AHL blueline because that’s the roster they built. They looked better without OEL in the lineup.

There is just no world where anyone will be able to convince me that the ice times + starts for Miller, EP, Hughes, & Demko made sense.

I get the early coaching bump and most of it up until about mid-march. The wins against shit teams is whatever and mostly would have happened regardless of deployment. But playing the shit out of top players like they did 2x v Calgary and 2x v Dallas will remain weird to me forever. We did not learn anything additional in the last fifteen games from doing this. I don’t get why they just wouldn’t have made a few different decisions in those games. It’s just inexplicable to me.

 

[4th line culture]

I get that, but it was always the way it was going to go. The only way to try and get this train back on the tracks was to burn draft picks and futures to clean up Benning's mess. Again, my frustration is that they've been too conservative about this, if anything.

Pressure is now on to make Myers/OEL/Boeser disappear.

When are they going to actually start the cleaning part? Its seems like they have the exact same mess they started with

 

[credulous]

I get that, but it was always the way it was going to go. The only way to try and get this train back on the tracks was to burn draft picks and futures to clean up Benning's mess. Again, my frustration is that they've been too conservative about this, if anything.

Pressure is now on to make Myers/OEL/Boeser disappear.

this has always been the job and they haven't even really started

all the tinkering with the bottom of the roster and "restocking the prospect pool" is just distraction. this team needs to add serious talent and it can't do that without better asset management starting with cap space

 

[MS]

I think this is a copout answer. No one thought the true talent level of the roster was bottom five.

But that’s where they were. They were, on average, closer in points to the bottom five teams.

They had 39 points when Tocchet came in.

The five teams below them (SJ, Anaheim, Arizona, Columbus, Chicago) were all in the 30-37 range. They were right there. The only team that was trying to tank and doing better than us was Montreal.

If you look at the closest five teams around us by seasons end (Philadelphia, Ottawa, STL, Detroit, Washington) they had 47, 43, 49, 46, 56.

We were actually closer to the bottom five than we were to the next five teams that we ended up passing (sans Ottawa).

No one who is disappointed in what happened thinks the team overperformed its talent level. Their record wasn’t even that special. They played a lot of bad teams and were worse under Tocchet than they were under BB from a pure results standpoint (13th vs 11th).

They iced Dries and an AHL blueline because that’s the roster they built. They looked better without OEL in the lineup.

There is just no world where anyone will be able to convince me that the ice times + starts for Miller, EP, Hughes, & Demko made sense.

I get the early coaching bump and most of it up until about mid-march. The wins against shit teams is whatever and mostly would have happened regardless of deployment. But playing the shit out of top players like they did 2x v Calgary and 2x v Dallas will remain weird to me forever. We did not learn anything additional in the last fifteen games from doing this. I don’t get why they just wouldn’t have made a few different decisions in those games. It’s just inexplicable to me.

Demko's workload ended up being totally ordinary. 60 start full-season pace. They iced Dries and an AHL blueline because they traded Horvat with no replacement and traded Schenn and shut down OEL.

The single biggest thing right now, by far and like not even close to anything else, is to have the team's three young superstar players (Hughes, Demko, Pettersson) happy and committed to this team long term. And all three clearly weren't and had voiced displeasure about the team's situation. And so, yeah, they I think tried to say 'you're our guys, you will have the opportunity here to get superstar icetime and level up to the game's elite players' and that's mostly what happened.

It actually kinds of hurts my head to see the level of performance we saw from Hughes/Pettersson over the past couple months and two guys looking like they're breaking out into absolute superstars ... but that's a bad thing because it drops us a couple picks in the draft? What on earth. Priorities are just so whacked with this fanbase right now.

Also once Horvat was traded and OEL shut down they simply didn't have the depth at C and LD to do anything other than play these guys lots and it isn't an effect that was unique to here - Anaheim was playing Cam Fowler 30 minutes/game down the stretch, too, because the other options were so poor.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Demko's workload ended up being totally ordinary. 60 start full-season pace. They iced Dries and an AHL blueline because they traded Horvat with no replacement and traded Schenn and shut down OEL.

The single biggest thing right now, by far and like not even close to anything else, is to have the team's three young superstar players (Hughes, Demko, Pettersson) happy and committed to this team long term. And all three clearly weren't and had voiced displeasure about the team's situation. And so, yeah, they I think tried to say 'you're our guys, you will have the opportunity here to get superstar icetime and level up to the game's elite players' and that's mostly what happened.

It actually kinds of hurts my head to see the level of performance we saw from Hughes/Pettersson over the past couple months and two guys looking like they're breaking out into absolute superstars ... but that's a bad thing because it drops us a couple picks in the draft? What on earth.

Also once Horvat was traded and OEL shut down they simply didn't have the depth at C and LD to do anything other than play these guys lots and it isn't an effect that was unique to here - Anaheim was playing Cam Fowler 30 minutes/game down the stretch, too, because the other options were so poor.

It's hilarious that some think that with the hiring of a new head coach we were going to continue to tank. In fact if a new coach came in and deliberately tanked thats not the type of guy I would want running the bench. Rick did exactly what anyone would do in that situation. Try to win. The second Bruce was fired was an indication we weren't tanking.

 

[sting101]

5-11 for me is Reinbacher Benson Smith Moore Dvorsky Yager Danielson

Be happy to add whoever is left

 

[MS]

It's hilarious that some think that with the hiring of a new head coach we were going to continue to tank. In fact if a new coach came in and deliberately tanked thats not the type of guy I would want running the bench. Rick did exactly what anyone would do in that situation. Try to win. The second Bruce was fired was an indication we weren't tanking.

The other thing is the context in which that coaching change happened.

It didn't happen because the team wanted to save the playoff chances or something.

Rutherford and Allvin *clearly* wanted to fire Boudreau last summer and weren't allowed to. Then they clearly wanted to fire him after the team's poor start in October and weren't allowed to, to the point where Rutherford was publicly going on TV taking shots at Boudreau basically to challenge ownership. When they finally got the chance to make the move that they'd been fighting for a year and get the coach they wanted in place, they weren't going to sit around saying 'hmmm, actually let's just hold course here cos this terrible situation we've wanted to fix for a long time actually is helping our draft pick a few spots'.

The whole coaching thing rests at the feet of Dipshit McOwner.

 

[Peen]

Demko's workload ended up being totally ordinary. 60 start full-season pace. They iced Dries and an AHL blueline because they traded Horvat with no replacement and traded Schenn and shut down OEL.

The single biggest thing right now, by far and like not even close to anything else, is to have the team's three young superstar players (Hughes, Demko, Pettersson) happy and committed to this team long term. And all three clearly weren't and had voiced displeasure about the team's situation. And so, yeah, they I think tried to say 'you're our guys, you will have the opportunity here to get superstar icetime and level up to the game's elite players' and that's mostly what happened.

It actually kinds of hurts my head to see the level of performance we saw from Hughes/Pettersson over the past couple months and two guys looking like they're breaking out into absolute superstars ... but that's a bad thing because it drops us a couple picks in the draft? What on earth. Priorities are just so whacked with this fanbase right now.

Also once Horvat was traded and OEL shut down they simply didn't have the depth at C and LD to do anything other than play these guys lots and it isn't an effect that was unique to here - Anaheim was playing Cam Fowler 30 minutes/game down the stretch, too, because the other options were so poor.

top five workload coming off an injury in meaningless games isn’t normal to me.

dries was playing nightly most of the year. he played 63 games.

decreasing their workload slightly and finishing in the mid-high 70s in points because kravtsov and brisebois play 3 extra shifts a game is an opportunity cost that makes total sense to me. those decisions aren’t changing the opinions of key players lmao

 

[Nucker101]

3 less minutes for Hughes
1-2 less minutes for Pettersson
2-3 less starts for Demko


I'm not convinced that any of this would have a significant impact on these 3 players’ happiness or stop them from achieving their full potential next season and beyond.

I'll also be fair and say that the odds this would make a significant impact on the final standings would also be questionable but I still would've preferred to see the team to operate like this.

And the "feeling good going into next season" argument got absolutely obliterated this past October so I don't wanna hear that.

 

[sting101]

In 40yrs other than Alex Edler we havent ever drafted a core player with a 3rd or 4th round pick

 

[archangel2]

If we don’t get Bedard than I hope he goes to Washington. Watching Bedard feed Ovie would just be so much fun to watch.

as long as none of the 5 teams tanking get him I will be happy

 

[JT Milker]

We should go back to discussing whether an incredibly fit professional athlete playing 5 months of some of the best hockey of their career with a torn ACL in a sport that is not stressful on the knee while likely being monitored by physio and medical professionals daily has altered their career outlook.

 

[Szechwan]

And really, what did those insane minutes prove? That if we play the wheels off our best players, and they all stay perfectly healthy (two ideas in complete opposition), then we can just barely tread water above .500? Sweet.

The fact is, while there IS some great talent on this team, there isn't enough for it to matter when it comes to cup contention, and frankly if we're not trying to contend then what is the point? Look at NJ, a young, up and coming team that had a great season on the backs of their young stars, and they STILL have Nemec and L Hughes coming down the pipe to put them over the top and into contention. It is completely delusional to think that this current structure can come anywhere close to competing for anything other than the wild card.

People didn't want to tank because losing is fun, it was because they see the huge dearth in talent on this team outside of the the established top 3-4 and know that the only way to get those kinds of players is through the draft. Do I want to see the prime of Petey and Hughes wasted? Absolutely not, but sometimes you have to take a step back and look at what is actually realistically possible with what you have to work with rather than sending up prayers that every single decision made turns out perfectly, because that's what it's going to take to turn this into a contender.

 

[archangel2]

In 40yrs other than Alex Edler we havent ever drafted a core player with a 3rd or 4th round pick

Bure 6th round
Larinov 11th
Patrick Sandstrom 9th
Aucoin 5th
Walker 5th
Cooke 6th
Lowry 6th
LIdster 7th
Kron 5th
Bieska 5th
Valk 6th
Sopel 6th

For me--all those guys were core player--Walker of course we screwed up on

 

[Szechwan]

as long as none of the 5 teams tanking get him I will be happy

I'm down for CLB, I think that fanbase deserves it. Would be a fun case study to see what a superstar can do in a non-traditional hockey market.

 

[MS]

3 less minutes for Hughes
1-2 less minutes for Pettersson
2-3 less starts for Demko


I'm not convinced that any of this would have a significant impact on these 3 player's happiness or stop them from achieving their full potential next season and beyond.

I'll also be fair and say that the odds this would make a significant impact on the final standings would also be questionable but I still would've preferred to see the team to operate like this.

And the "feeling good going into next season" argument got absolutely obliterated this past October so I don't wanna hear that.

Maybe, but as you say doing this would not have been the difference between 11th and 5th. It might have been worth a couple points.

People also get tunnel vision on this team. Like I said, Anaheim was playing Fowler 30 minutes/game. SJ was giving Karlsson a massive icetime boost through Feb/March to try getting him to 100 points and a Norris. Nick Suzuki was barely playing less than Pettersson.

Again, having Hughes/Pettersson/Demko happy and buying in is the absolute most important thing and I have *zero* problem with prioritizing that, especially when you look at the levels of play they hit recently.

 

[Szechwan]

Maybe, but as you say doing this would not have been the difference between 11th and 5th. It might have been worth a couple points.

People also get tunnel vision on this team. Like I said, Anaheim was playing Fowler 30 minutes/game. SJ was giving Karlsson a massive icetime boost through Feb/March to try getting him to 100 points and a Norris. Nick Suzuki was barely playing less than Pettersson.

Again, having Hughes/Pettersson/Demko happy and buying in is the absolute most important thing and I have *zero* problem with prioritizing that, especially when you look at the levels of play they hit recently.

We finished 3 points ahead of Washington in 8th. That's all people are saying here. With an iota of forethought we could have accomplished everything you're going on about while also improving our odds beyond the absolute worst shot at Bedard.

Petey isn't stupid. He knows what this team is. 3 minutes a game isn't going to change his mind about whether to re-sign here.