HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Who is everyone's non-Michkov pick?

Carlsson…

He gone? Then Benson or Reinbacher.

Last summer, I thought for sure Habs would get that No. 1 C this year. I was so dam*
sure.

The fact that dream might blow up is a great source of angst for me.

Dvorsky and Smith were never part of the dream.

 

[Mrb1p]

Who is everyone's non-Michkov pick?

Ill be happy with anyone in my top 8.

Bedard, Michkov, Fantilli, Carlsson, Reinbacher, Benson, Wood and Smith. In this order. Beyond that, I will lose it, probably cry for a whole week straight.

 

[SOLR]

I mean, lets pretend for a second we both care about these little snippets but one of them calls him an average skater.

The rest:


Hes not a pretty skater thats for sure, hes not super fluid and he's fast because he keeps his feet moving and has good edges. "More than gets there" doesn't suggest average.

That's what I said, he's an average skater, but he can handle the puck at his top speed. It's not a freaking semantic game. Benson plays fast, but he doesn't skate fast. How hard is it to differentiate the two?

 

[McGees]

Some Draft/Michkov/PLD chat

Basu: Risk factor means the bar is higher for Michkov

Editor-in-chief of the Athletic in Montreal Arpon Basu on the risks that come with using a pick for russian prospect Matvei Michkov and who else may be enticing for the Montreal Canadiens and their 5th overall pick

www.tsn.ca

 

[Mrb1p]

That's what I said, he's an average skater, but he can handle the puck at his top speed. It's not a freaking semantic game. Benson plays fast, but he doesn't skate fast. How hard is it to differentiate the two?

This is so contradictory my head hurts, lol.

What does he do if he plays at a fast speed and pace but doesnt skate fast? The rink moves around him fast? He glides? He swims?

 

[Jaynki]

Who is everyone's non-Michkov pick?

I have Dvorsky at 6. But let's be clear. There is a gap between him and the other five and i would, without hesitation, blindly draft Michkov before him. (without any due diligence)

 

[HabsForHire]

Wood. He’s a 6’4” Suzuki on the wing out there, with even better shooting skills.

I think Wood will be a fantastic regular season player, but I do agree that somebody like Leonard may be a playoff warrior. Though choice. Will be happy with either. Not super interested anymore in the other names mentioned, but they all look like great prospects.

I'd rather dvorsky then wood, top 5 ? Really ?!?

 

[Seb]

Who is everyone's non-Michkov pick?

Reinbacher, Dvorsky, Leonard then Benson in that order

 

[ginomini]

Wood. He’s a 6’4” Suzuki on the wing out there, with even better shooting skills.

I think Wood will be a fantastic regular season player, but I do agree that somebody like Leonard may be a playoff warrior. Though choice. Will be happy with either. Not super interested anymore in the other names mentioned, but they all look like great prospects.

Agreed, but Wood could also become an absolute playoff beast if he fills out his frame and ends up being physically strong. His physical attributes and skills are not too dissimilar to Draisaitl tbh.

Ill be happy with anyone in my top 8.

Bedard, Michkov, Fantilli, Carlsson, Reinbacher, Benson, Wood and Smith. In this order. Beyond that, I will lose it, probably cry for a whole week straight.

I have the same top 8 in a slightly different order. With Dvorsky and Leonard right after. It's weird because it makes me feel like a Dvorsky hater, but I actually really like him hahah.

 

[Naslund]

Agreed, but Wood could also become an absolute playoff beast if he fills out his frame and ends up being physically strong. His physical attributes and skills are not too dissimilar to Draisaitl tbh.

It's possible, but even if he become physically much stronger than his peers, I think he is a gentle soul, and this is unlikely to change.

 

[SOLR]

This is so contradictory my head hurts, lol.

What does he do if he plays at a fast speed and pace but doesnt skate fast? The rink moves around him fast? He glides? He swims?

It's absolute rocket science, apparently (not)

The ability to skate fast has nothing to do with the ability to play fast.

You need to have the IQ to be able to skate as you handle the puck. Some players have that. But they don't have a good skating technique to go with it; therefore, their skating speed is slow-average but they still play fast as they sustain their skating (regardless how good it is).

Skating abilities = potential of going fast and reaching top speed in a few strides.
Playing fast = ability to coordinate skating and gameplay decisions in such a way that you are skating more often at your top speed.

Benson makes fast decisions.
Benson does a lot of one-timer passes and shots.
Benson does a lot of things that don't leave the opponent time to think.
He plays fast, and the momentum of the game increases around him.

Mike Ribeiro was the opposite; he slowed down the game. The momentum of the game slowed around him. He didn't mind, his passing precision was way above average, and he thrived in a slow-paced game.

McDavid plays fast AND he's the best skater, at the same time.
Jack Hughes, same same.
Benson doesn't have that skating dimension that makes him a special skater, but he'll play fast.
Just do expect the defence playing against Benson in the NHL, to stop him a lot more often they can stop McDavid/Hughes. He'll also not fatigue the opposition on a long shift by out-skating them like McDavid/Hughes do (3v3, 4v4 scenarios)

Yager vs. Benson is a good comparison to bring in this discussion.
Yager plays slower than Benson but is a better skater.
Benson plays faster than Yager, but is a slower skater. Scouts tend to prefer the player that plays fast because it is better correlated with results. But one could make the point that in the NHL, Yager will have fewer issues getting open, and their end results might be similar.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's absolute rocket science, apparently (not)

The ability to skate fast has nothing to do with the ability to play fast.

You need to have the IQ to be able to skate as you handle the puck. Some players have that. But they don't have a good skating technique to go with it; therefore, their skating speed is slow-average but they still play fast as they sustain their skating (regardless how good it is).

Skating abilities = potential of going fast and reaching top speed in a few strides.
Playing fast = ability to coordinate skating and gameplay decisions in such a way that you are skating more often at your top speed.

Benson makes fast decisions.
Benson does a lot of one-timer passes and shots.
Benson does a lot of things that don't leave the opponent time to think.
He plays fast, and the momentum of the game increases around him.

Mike Ribeiro was the opposite; he slowed down the game. The momentum of the game slowed around him. He didn't mind, his passing precision was way above average, and he thrived in a slow-paced game.

McDavid plays fast AND he's the best skater, at the same time.
Jack Hughes, same same.
Benson doesn't have that skating dimension that makes him a special skater, but he'll play fast.
Just do expect the defence playing against Benson in the NHL, to stop him a lot more often they can stop McDavid/Hughes. He'll also not fatigue the opposition on a long shift by out-skating them like McDavid/Hughes do (3v3, 4v4 scenarios)

Yager vs. Benson is a good comparison to bring in this discussion.
Yager plays slower than Benson but is a better skater.
Benson plays faster than Yager, but is a slower skater. Scouts tend to prefer the player that plays fast because it is better correlated with results. But one could make the point that in the NHL, Yager will have fewer issues getting open, and their end results might be similar.

You really seem to struggle with the fact that there is a world between "average" and "McDavid/Mackinnon/Hughes".

You had the same problem with Guhle and Makar/Hughes. Above average doesn't mean McDavid, average doesn't mean Benson, Benson falls somewhere in the middle, probably around where guys like Caufield, Dach and Suzuki are.

Benson is not an average skater, no matter how you twist it. His technique isn't super good, but he gets around the ice at an above-average rate, thats it, thats all. He skates better than Gallagher, per se, who's an average to below average skater.

He plays with Savoie, its pretty apparent that Benson is more than fast enough to keep up with him, even if Savoie is one of the fastest skater in the world, that is not "average".

 

[SOLR]

You really seem to struggle with the fact that there is a world between "average" and "McDavid/Mackinnon/Hughes".

You had the same problem with Guhle and Makar/Hughes. Above average doesn't mean McDavid, average doesn't mean Benson, Benson falls somewhere in the middle, probably around where guys like Caufield, Dach and Suzuki are.

Benson is not an average skater, no matter how you twist it. His technique isn't super good, but he gets around the ice at an above-average rate, thats it, thats all. He skates better than Gallagher, per se, who's an average to below average skater.

He plays with Savoie, its pretty apparent that Benson is more than fast enough to keep up with him, even if Savoie is one of the fastest skater in the world, that is not "average".

I didn't have the "same problem" with Guhle...another misrepresentation. Guhle is above average. Your argument for Guhle is that he was elite. And now you say he's above average like I was saying? Come on now.

I just fundamentally disagree that Benson is anything above average and scouts agree. You have to prove over pro scouts that he's above average, he's not.

 

[Mrb1p]

Here three more if anyones still not sure.

I didn't have the "same problem" with Guhle...another misrepresentation. Guhle is above average. Your argument for Guhle is that he was elite. And now you say he's above average like I was saying? Come on now.

I just fundamentally disagree that Benson is anything above average and scouts agree. You have to prove over pro scouts that he's above average, he's not.

No, Guhle is an elite skater through and through, he's like a hair short of Hughes and Makar, and Im sure he hangs with anyone in the league in a straight line.

Theres one scout that agrees with you so far.

Here outskating smooth skating 6'5 Carter Sotheran right next to him. Average as hell.

Agreed, but Wood could also become an absolute playoff beast if he fills out his frame and ends up being physically strong. His physical attributes and skills are not too dissimilar to Draisaitl tbh.


I have the same top 8 in a slightly different order. With Dvorsky and Leonard right after. It's weird because it makes me feel like a Dvorsky hater, but I actually really like him hahah.

Im also a fan of Dvorsky, lol. I have him 11th. I wouldn't even have been mad if he was the first pick last year, this year is just a different year IMO.

 

[SOLR]

Here three more if anyones still not sure.


No, Guhle is an elite skater through and through, he's like a hair short of Hughes and Makar, and Im sure he hangs with anyone in the league in a straight line.

Theres one scout that agrees with you so far.

Here outskating smooth skating 6'5 Carter Sotheran right next to him. Average as hell.

That's not outskating lol and what is the context? These videos tell you nothing, they strip the context.

And when scouts say average skating, they are talking about average NHL speed, not freaking WHL speed. Number 93 was bringing the speed here, as usual. If you get drafted in the top 8, you are supposed to go around average skating WHL Ds. Savoie is the above average you are talking about, is Benson as fast as Savoie ???? It's obviously not the case, no room for debate.

Keep living in a world where you think Guhle is close to Dahlin/Makar all you want... doesn't make it true.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Michkov per his agent plans to attend the 2023 NHL draft

 

[Mrb1p]

That's not outskating lol. And when scouts say average skating, they are talking about average NHL speed, not freaking WHL speed. Number 93 was bringing the speed here, as usual. If you get drafted in the top 8, you are supposed to go around average skating WHL Ds. Savoie is the above average you are talking about, is Benson as fast as Savoie ????

Yeah you seem to have a difficulty grasping the semantics here. Savoie isn't an "above average" he's god damn near the top. He literally was in the top 3 of all the Kubota tests last year, he would rank first in this years Kubotas by 0.2 in both 30 meter and 30 meter with puck.

Being above average means you are better than Q1 and Q2 and are somewhere in Q3 or Q4, there is quite a difference between someone that clears the average by .5% and someone that clears it by 25% or more.

Anyway you define it, Benson won't have trouble at the next level with his speed.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Michkov per his agent plans to attend the 2023 NHL draft

Good vibes

 

[Jaynki]

Michkov per his agent plans to attend the 2023 NHL draft

Well, he has stated that he wants to play in the NHL and he will be present at the draft. Surely he will do interviews with the teams. I think it's as likely as he is not there as 5 as he is.

I personally adore Fantilli, but to put things into perspective, he is 5 months younger than Cooley. (For what its worth) Could the Ducks drop a f***ing bomb and go with Michkov at 2? If they are convinced he is there in maximum 3 years?

 

[David Suzuki]

Michkov per his agent plans to attend the 2023 NHL draft

anyone in nashville wanna help
him defect

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I would be ecstatic with Michkov at 5, but I doubt we will take him if he's there, so for that reason I hope he goes top-4. Ideally to San Jose so we can get Carlsson

 

[Seb]

So now that the disappointment of not getting Bédard has settled, if we pick either Carlsson, Michkov or Smith would you consider the tank a success?

And what if the Habs pick either Dvorsky, Reinbacher, Leonard, Benson or Wood? Would you still consider it a success?

 

[Nicko999]

Assuming Bedard, Fantilli and Carlsson go top 5, it is crucial we take Mitchkov or Smith (basically whoever San Jose doesn't choose at 4).
Only 2 players with 100 pts potential. Anything else, Hughes/Gorton needs to be shown the door.

In fact, call me crazy but Smith might leapfrog Carlsson.

 

[Michelangelo]

Who is everyone's non-Michkov pick?

Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, Smith in that order

 

[JoelWarlord]

Who is everyone's non-Michkov pick?

Reinbacher for me (I'd probably consider Reinbacher over Smith for what it's worth). Really I'd be happy with anyone that's plausible at 5 other than Dvorsky (who I still wouldn't necessarily be MAD about b/c he's a good prospect too, but it's definitely not the direction I want to go). Assuming Smith is gone (because I think the Habs are a near certainty to pick Smith if he's there), any of Benson, or the other NTDP forwards in or around that tier would be fine with me too if they don't take Reinbacher.

Overall I ust think Reinbacher seems like too good of an option if we're going to get cute and pass on Michkov. If we're going to pass on him I'd rather make the "eat your vegetables" pick and just get a solid RD that's got top pair upside and probably the floor of a good #4 type. With Reinbacher get the same "floor" benefits as a player like Dvorsky but his defensive traits are inherently more valuable as a dman than they are for a forward. And that's without sacrificing a lot in terms of ceiling IMO. I think Reinbacher's ceiling is underappreciated because he's just good at everything even if there's no eye-popping tool that screams future Norris guy, if he's "just" a really consistent solid #2 that's an immensely valuable asset for us.