I’d be ecstatic to get another Lindholm and have him as our top d
Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft (mod warning 1st post)
- Thread starter Anaheim4ever
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- Apr 15, 2012
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He led the Boston Bruins in average ice time this year. One of the best regular season teams ever. That’s a #1
That’s possibly Luneau. Nearly plays the exact game
He never did anything remotely similar in Anaheim to what he accomplished in Boston.
I'd be over the moon to have another Hampus as well.
He may not have scored as much but nearly led the league in +/-, led in minutes on an elite defensive team, analytics show a massive spike in ga when he was out of the lineup, consistently made his d partner way better with him compared to without him, etc.. I think his style of play just didn’t generate points but his overall impact on the team was huge.
He was a fantastic defensive dman in Anaheim for the most part, and he was definitely Anaheim's "#1" dman because he was better than everyone else. I'm just leery of calling him a fully-fledged, unequivocal #1 dman while he was here commensurate with other #1D around the league because he averaged 31 points/season. To me, true #1D have to have sort of an offensive aspect to their game that they are known for, and I just don't think Hampus had that reputation. Often that's signaled by playing on the top PP and producing a lot there.
He absolutely is one this year, but in Anaheim, he would've been on the lower end of that spectrum, IMO.
He absolutely is one this year, but in Anaheim, he would've been on the lower end of that spectrum, IMO.
- Sep 21, 2018
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I would bet he doesn't if the team falls apart due to their cap issues.
Having said that, teams tend to find ways to wiggle out of that so who knows?
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
So scoring points is the mark for a #1 D?
2021-22, Lindholm
Anaheim: 61 games; 22 points + 0 rating = 22 goal production (with rookie D Drysdale)
Boston: 10 games; 5 points + 10 rating = 15 goal production
Total: 71 games; 27 points + 10 rating = 37 goal production
2021-22, Fowler
Anaheim: 76 games; 42 points + (-9) rating = 33 goal production
2022-23, Lindholm
Boston: 80 games; 53 points + 49 rating = 102 goal production
2022-23, Fowler
Anaheim: 82 games; 48 points + (-23) rating = 25 goal production
2022-23, Karlsson
Sharks: 82 games: 101 points + (-26) rating = 75 goal production
Maybe it's archaic to only look at scoring points counting stats as the metric for "offensive production". I show a more simplistic offensive generation with "goal production" using points scored and plus/minus. Of course, many fancier stats exists to show offensive prowess such as Corsi/Fenwick and well as zone exits/possessions. There are many articles on Lindholm tilting the offense for the team's favor since he started playing for the Ducks. Here's a 2016 Sportsnet article on Lindholm: How Anaheim's Lindholm is Changing the Way We Judge D-Men.
People are still stuck with counting stats than actually acknowledge how Lindholm tilts the ice. I proved the Athletic's stats guru guy Dom's model broken when I contested how he judged Lindholm vastly incorrectly. My premise was Lindholm saved a goal against per game with Anaheim. The proof was Boston's goals against was reduced by a goal against and their PK unit was boosted into the top-5, Anaheim's PK was in the top-5 when Lindholm was here.
Here are more articles citing how counting stats doesn't appreciate Lindholm's game.
- THW, 2017: Hampus Lindholm, The NHL's Most Underrated Defenseman.
- Sportsnet, 2017: The Modern Day Defenceman's Role as a Neutral Zone Play Driver.
Lindholm didn't just become a #1 with Boston, he just has far better talent around him in Boston than he did in Anaheim. Anaheim fans probably don't know that Lindholm carried the Boston defense to start the season with a couple of defensemen out, #1D McAvoy and top-4D Grzelcyk.
If we don't get Bedard, I'm hoping it's 2 teams a little farther back (Blues, Yotes, Sens) that get it and drop the Hawks and Sharks down a couple spots.
No, but it's a big piece of the puzzle.
This is my exact thoughts on it.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
No. We can compare Fowler's past two seasons. Fowler's is proof that with his offense and no defense, we're shit. Add in Lindholm, and Fowler's defensive deficiencies aren't as largely pronounced.
That's the point, Lindholm significantly tilts the ice. I've proven this with "With/Without Lindholm" for the past few seasons.
Again, Lindholm didn't "accidently" become a #1D with Boston. smh
Did I say offense-only = #1 D? If you're going to put words in my mouth and argue with them you don't need to quote me.
Deuce22
Registered User
The entire discussion of what a "#1 D" is remains pointless. Context cannot be ignored. Lindholm the Duck was lacking the talent, coaching, and winning culture that he found in Boston. He would not have looked like the player (or had the stats) he was in Boston if he stayed in Anaheim. He's the same great defenseman, just in a much better situation.
- Sep 21, 2018
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I like the way you think.
Assuming Verbeek doesn't go rogue and pick him at 2-3. Then we got 3-5 years of "will he" anxiety
All I'll add to the Lindholm discussion is sometimes it takes longer for defensemen to peak. The whole discussion was started by lamentation that the Ducks draft and development group never produced a number 1 defenseman. Whether or not he became one with another team is immaterial to me. Anaheim was still responsible for his development. His numbers were insane while playing the same terrific defense. He's a number 1 thriving under a better system. We drafted and developed him to get to that point. Simple as.
No question about it, but I think your first point is contributing a lot to his production this year. Of course, the system plays a role, but I still think more of it comes internally, and he's just starting to get it. We've kinda seen that with Cam the past couple years, although with him I think that was present earlier than it was for Hampus - he's just been a very responsible player and is just opening his game up more now, which is awesome. Montour is another late bloomer you'd have to say as well. you see this a lot more often with dmen, it's just a pity it didn't happen for him here.
I mean I didn't want to say it and hit any sore spots but Theodore would easily be Vegas' number 1 as a sort of midrange number 1 guy or borderline no 1 comfortable high end 2D guy, if they didn't have Pietrangelo too.
I think it's a fair point that we were never going to have the system to let Hampus thrive like this at the right time in his career. But as long as the guy is capable of playing like a number 1 on literally the best performing regular season team of all time, I think it's a touch disingenuous to say our drafting and development has never produced a number 1.
Idk. For me, Anaheim has a shining history of drafting good defensemen that shouldn't be discounted. Lindholm going Norris mode on another team is a consequence of timing. Just like how Gibson was born too late to have a legit chance to contend for a Vezina (for now).
I really hope the Ducks trade up for Perreault, or that he falls to our 2nd. I seriously doubt it, but it could happen.
91Fedorov
John (Gibson) 3:16
- Dec 30, 2013
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Does he look like he'll be any better than his brother? I still have hope, but Jacob is slipping.
GunnarStahl
Let’s go shake their hands
- Oct 13, 2020
- 2,117
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His stat line is insane but I can’t really speak to much beyond that. And not insane like how Jacob had a very good DY, like insane as in he out scored Hughes, Matthews, and Eichel and everyone else ever at the NTDP.
I haven’t looked into why scouts rate him so lowly though.
Nick Lardis with a hat trick earlier. ReLly hoping Pat V takes a strong look at him with our first second. Kids got a laser shot and wicked fast skating
GunnarStahl
Let’s go shake their hands
- Oct 13, 2020
- 2,117
- 2,988
He seemingly may increase his stock at this tournament, but a lot of rankings including McKenzie have him ranked as a 3rd rounder so maybe they could snag him later but I do like his game. Likely in the late second or third dokie to size concerns.
He’s ranked as the 27th best prospect by nhl central scouting. He will shoot up the draft boards IMO. He scoring instincts & skating are well above average if not elite
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