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OT: 2023 MLB Thread

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Cut day. On merit alone Cano should go, but there are guys in the clubhouse who are fully behind him, including Lindor. There is also the money factor.
 
It's wonderful to see the team unencumbered by the financial side of things, and making the appropriate moves to field the best team. In years past we'd have done something stupid like demoted Smith or Davis or waived Jankowski or whatever. So refreshing.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
It's wonderful to see the team unencumbered by the financial side of things, and making the appropriate moves to field the best team. In years past we'd have done something stupid like demoted Smith or Davis or waived Jankowski or whatever. So refreshing.
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I still would’ve waived Jankowski but I’m not upset in the slightest.

And yeah, it’s refreshing to see the Mets able to just get rid of someone making so much without thinking twice.
 
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Bob Richards said:
Jeff McNeil was almost in this trade.
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Yeah, crazy to think about. It's also crazy to see Kelenic playing so terribly. I know he's still young and has plenty of time to figure things out, but a 67 OPS+ over his first 400 PAs is not something I would have expected. Of course it doesn't justify the trade or make it any better. At least the Mariners were able to use Dunn to help get Suarez and Winker, because Bruce, Bautista, and Swarzak returned them nothing.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
Yeah, crazy to think about. It's also crazy to see Kelenic playing so terribly. I know he's still young and has plenty of time to figure things out, but a 67 OPS+ over his first 400 PAs is not something I would have expected. Of course it doesn't justify the trade or make it any better. At least the Mariners were able to use Dunn to help get Suarez and Winker, because Bruce, Bautista, and Swarzak returned them nothing.
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Kelenic’s had a pretty awful start. I think his K rate this year is like 40% lol.

Still sucks though because we traded the prospect and not the player he’s regarded as in the future.
 
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Bob Richards said:
Kelenic’s had a pretty awful start. I think his K rate this year is like 40% lol.

Still sucks though because we traded the prospect and not the player he’s regarded as in the future.
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It reminds me of when we traded Kazmir for Zambrano and lots of fans started rooting against Kazmir, hoping he'd be injured or ineffective to make the trade "feel better" or something. It's like, Kazmir could have never pitched an ML game in his life and it's still a terrible deal, given that you got shit value for one of the top prospects in the game. Same for Kelenic.
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This is an awesome article on Buck:

theathletic.com

Buck Showalter is reshaping the first-place Mets, one detail at a time

In Showalter, Steve Cohen wanted a manager with gravitas, tactical acumen and the relentless daily drive that undergirds elite clubs.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

I always loved Buck, but reading just how meticulous, thoughtful, and knowledgeable he is, is just amazing. Seems like all his players genuinely love playing for him and truly respect him and his vast understanding of the game, and the way he treats people. Perfect guy for the Mets at the perfect time.
 
nyr2k2 said:
It reminds me of when we traded Kazmir for Zambrano and lots of fans started rooting against Kazmir, hoping he'd be injured or ineffective to make the trade "feel better" or something. It's like, Kazmir could have never pitched an ML game in his life and it's still a terrible deal, given that you got shit value for one of the top prospects in the game. Same for Kelenic.
Post automatically merged:

This is an awesome article on Buck:

theathletic.com

Buck Showalter is reshaping the first-place Mets, one detail at a time

In Showalter, Steve Cohen wanted a manager with gravitas, tactical acumen and the relentless daily drive that undergirds elite clubs.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

I always loved Buck, but reading just how meticulous, thoughtful, and knowledgeable he is, is just amazing. Seems like all his players genuinely love playing for him and truly respect him and his vast understanding of the game, and the way he treats people. Perfect guy for the Mets at the perfect time.
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I haven't seen Buck sitting down in the dugout during a game yet. I can't recall if it was the same back when he was with the yankees. I remember occasionally Torre and Zimmer sitting together looking like they were solving crossword puzzles. I also remember a couple of years ago a bark at the park I was with my niece during the pre-game dog parade and Mickey was sitting in the dugout ... watching. Didn't seem so creepy at the time.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
It reminds me of when we traded Kazmir for Zambrano and lots of fans started rooting against Kazmir, hoping he'd be injured or ineffective to make the trade "feel better" or something. It's like, Kazmir could have never pitched an ML game in his life and it's still a terrible deal, given that you got shit value for one of the top prospects in the game. Same for Kelenic.
Post automatically merged:

This is an awesome article on Buck:

theathletic.com

Buck Showalter is reshaping the first-place Mets, one detail at a time

In Showalter, Steve Cohen wanted a manager with gravitas, tactical acumen and the relentless daily drive that undergirds elite clubs.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

I always loved Buck, but reading just how meticulous, thoughtful, and knowledgeable he is, is just amazing. Seems like all his players genuinely love playing for him and truly respect him and his vast understanding of the game, and the way he treats people. Perfect guy for the Mets at the perfect time.
Click to expand...
I kind of disagree with this. Yes, it's true intellectually, but there's certainly a large emotional component contingent on the prospect's actual success in the league that shouldn't be overlooked. There's a reason people resolve trade trees into the prospects that picks turn into.

Hoping Kelenic has a solid but unspectacular career.
 
Greg02 said:
I kind of disagree with this. Yes, it's true intellectually, but there's certainly a large emotional component contingent on the prospect's actual success in the league that shouldn't be overlooked. There's a reason people resolve trade trees into the prospects that picks turn into.

Hoping Kelenic has a solid but unspectacular career.
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I'm not dismissing the emotional aspect of trades and I'm not suggesting it's wrong to root against the guy you traded. I'm just saying, when you have one of the the best pitching prospects in the game, as Kazmir was, you should get a better return than Victor Zambrano. Even if Kazmir amounted to absolutely nothing, he had great value at the time and the Mets didn't cash in on that. The only way that trade works out is if Zambrano becomes a stud for you or pitches good baseball for the next decade or whatever. The trade was panned at the time and ended up disastrously. It's harder to assess the Kelenic move as there were lots of other players and money involved, but it's the same principle. Whether Kelenic works out or not, I'm not sure the Mets got appropriate value for him--for what he was considered at the time.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
I'm not dismissing the emotional aspect of trades and I'm not suggesting it's wrong to root against the guy you traded. I'm just saying, when you have one of the the best pitching prospects in the game, as Kazmir was, you should get a better return than Victor Zambrano. Even if Kazmir amounted to absolutely nothing, he had great value at the time and the Mets didn't cash in on that. The only way that trade works out is if Zambrano becomes a stud for you or pitches good baseball for the next decade or whatever. The trade was panned at the time and ended up disastrously. It's harder to assess the Kelenic move as there were lots of other players and money involved, but it's the same principle. Whether Kelenic works out or not, I'm not sure the Mets got appropriate value for him--for what he was considered at the time.
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OK I think we're on the same page then. Definitely wasn't a good trade, but easier to stomach if Kelenic doesn't become a hall of famer.
 
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Greg02 said:
OK I think we're on the same page then. Definitely wasn't a good trade, but easier to stomach if Kelenic doesn't become a hall of famer.
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Right. The trade sucks, but if Kelenic ends up being shit it will be easier to just forget the whole thing down the line (or maybe when Diaz is closing down the final out of a WS clincher, we remember it fondly :laugh:).
 
Even if May was healthy and not out 2-3 months, I just don't know how you could look at that Mets pen and be confident in it.
 
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