Prospect Info: 2023 Draft Thread (Yotes picking #6 & #12)

[PHX FireBirds18]

I don't disagree with your gems in the later rounds comment but pulling a Tampa is getting the #1 and #2 overall picks as well. The Coyotes have never had either.

I acknowledged that in the post. If you take a look at some of the other players they’ve drafted and developed from the later rounds. You can argue that they had just as much impact in those championships. Failing not to get a top pick is disappointing because it makes us feel like we are missing out on the given. If we fail to produce in the middle of the 1st and beyond than it doesn’t matter how many mcdavids we draft.

We've already started to see some wins in those later rounds and recent buying of players with draft capital in the Moser's and McBains who i really think have been solid players this year. We need more but so far I think this is happening at a faster pace than many of us expected.

I’m not even mad about the pick. Just feels good to know our boys are taken care of no matter who we take. Hearing the Cooley and Geekie stories just makes the process that much more comfortable.

 

[PHX FireBirds18]

Agree, or a Boston.

The culture is what’s important. Not picking 1st.

 

[Sinurgy]

If we fail to produce in the middle of the 1st and beyond than it doesn’t matter how many mcdavids we draft.

It does matter though because in that scenario we end up with neither. I know it's popular to show how Edmonton hasn't won anything even through they have McDrai but they've made the conference finals, are now regularly cup contenders and last but not least they've been fun as f*** to watch for years now. Edmonton fans sure as hell would not trade away McDavid for culture!!

 

[Sinurgy]

The culture is what’s important. Not picking 1st.

"culture" is extremely hard to quantify but picking 1st is not. Picking first is so close to a guaranteed star player that when a #1 overall player fails to become a star at their position it becomes a serious sports news story. That's in a normal draft let alone a draft like 2023 is supposed to be. We need to face it, the garbage time points the team has collected the past month are the biggest set back for the franchise since finishing 2nd to last 8yrs ago.

That said, if the vote passes in May and shovels start hitting the ground, that's what will make me the most happy. It's still the most important thing possible for this franchise!

 

[PHX FireBirds18]

It does matter though because in that scenario we end up with neither. I know it's popular to show how Edmonton hasn't won anything even through they have McDrai but they've made the conference finals, are now regularly cup contenders and last but not least they've been fun as f*** to watch for years now. Edmonton fans sure as hell would not trade away McDavid for culture!!

What happens if McDavid become disgruntled and requests out… What do they have now? No culture and no superstar to be excited about it. I feel your pain Sinurgy we can’t lose right and we sure as hell can’t win much at all. Just try to focus on the positives that everything seems to be in place. Trust the process it would do good for the Psyche. It’s done wonders for me personally. Personally I would take Bostons culture over McDrai any day.

 

[PHX FireBirds18]

"culture" is extremely hard to quantify but picking 1st is not. Picking first is so close to a guaranteed star player that when a #1 overall player fails to become a star at their position it becomes a serious sports news story. That's in a normal draft let alone a draft like 2023 is supposed to be. We need to face it, the garbage time points the team has collected the past month are the biggest set back for the franchise since finishing 2nd to last 8yrs ago.

That said, if the vote passes in May and shovels start hitting the ground, that's what will make me the most happy. It's still the most important thing possible for this franchise!

I’m pretty sure we tanked hard in the years that mattered too and it still didn’t give us anything. I’ve been sitting grumpy on the couch as long as you have. Let’s just get this arena going so we can win something for once

 

[Sinurgy]

What happens if McDavid become disgruntled and requests out… What do they have now? No culture and no superstar to be excited about it. I feel your pain Sinurgy we can’t lose right and we sure as hell can’t win much at all. Just try to focus on the positives that everything seems to be in place. Trust the process it would do good for the Psyche. It’s done wonders for me personally. Personally I would take Bostons culture over McDrai any day.

I do trust the process, I'm extremely in favor of the rebuild, but it's pretty f***ing hard to be excited about all these garbage time points. They don't mean anything and I'm not convinced it's the result of some sort of magical culture shift, especially since the franchise has a history of doing well once there's no more pressure. All I see is an amazing opportunity slipping through their hands again and for what...not a god damn thing.

Personally I would take McDrai over Boston's culture 10 out of 10 times and without hesitation.

 

[hbk]

We’ve been competitive all year. All year. I don’t understand gsrbage time points. I’m a big fan of tanking this year but to just ignore the positives we have seen especially amongst the young players who are playing above expectations it’s hard not be impressed.

 

[Sinurgy]

We’ve been competitive all year. All year. I don’t understand gsrbage time points. I’m a big fan of tanking this year but to just ignore the positives we have seen especially amongst the young players who are playing above expectations it’s hard not be impressed.

They've got almost 45% of their points in the last month and half, all while having zero shot at the playoffs. To me that is almost the definition of garbage time points.

 

[hbk]

They've got almost 45% of their points in the last month and half, all while having zero shot at the playoffs. To me that is almost the definition of garbage time points.

You mean the last 20-30 games right? So 25-40% of the season. Just to put things in perspective.

 

[Sinurgy]

You mean the last 20-30 games right? So 25-40% of the season. Just to put things in perspective.

23 games I believe so yeah, about 30%. So instead of staying steady or ideally getting worse, they upped their game in garbage time. Is what it is I know, I just don't see a good enough reason to try spin it as a positive.

 

[hbk]

23 games I believe so yeah, about 30%. So instead of staying steady or ideally getting worse, they upped their game in garbage time. Is what it is I know, I just don't see a good enough reason to try spin it as a positive.

I get your point but with the 23 games and the ones remaining I don’t think you can just call roughly half the season as garbage time. Believe me i am pro tank. But you are essentially saying that almost half the season doesn’t matter.

 

[gorsk11]

23 games I believe so yeah, about 30%. So instead of staying steady or ideally getting worse, they upped their game in garbage time. Is what it is I know, I just don't see a good enough reason to try spin it as a positive.

You have to remember the first half of the season was brutal. Most games on the road. That is a factor.

 

[Sinurgy]

But you are essentially saying that almost half the season doesn’t matter.

I'm saying 100% of the season didn't matter but especially post all-star when not even the most naive thought there was still a shot at the playoffs. Man I just hope like hell Chicago doesn't get Bedard! I hope he goes to Columbus or San Jose, just not Chicago...please!!

You have to remember the first half of the season was brutal. Most games on the road. That is a factor.

That's a fair point.

 

[gorsk11]

I'm saying 100% of the season didn't matter but especially post all-star when not even the most naive thought there was still a shot at the playoffs. Man I just hope like hell Chicago doesn't get Bedard! I hope he goes to Columbus or San Jose, just not Chicago...please!!


That's a fair point.

We work hard but its frustrating getting wins and points when a better draft spot is more important than wins. Credit this team never gives up and is playing some decent hockey while getting some good goaltending

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

I'm saying 100% of the season didn't matter but especially post all-star when not even the most naive thought there was still a shot at the playoffs. Man I just hope like hell Chicago doesn't get Bedard! I hope he goes to Columbus or San Jose, just not Chicago...please!!


That's a fair point.

I'm not a fan of tanking, although it seems like a necessary evil. That said, watching the youth's growth is great.

Keller is absolutely flourishing, Schmaltz is growing into a very nice two way player, Maccelli is having a dominant rookie performance, Crouse seems to have reached the level we all hoped for, Hayton might be a top 6 center, Moser might be a top 3 D, Valimaki has played well above expectations, we have a 3 headed goalie monster I think? McBain has been a monster and my favorite Coyote this year, Guenther is going to be awesome when he hits, Cooley has been crushing it, and we have an ESL coach that strings together more coherent sentences than our last.

That's a lot to like. Sure, there are negatives, but you'll always be dealing with that through a rebuild, and when bringing up youth. There's not a lot of reasons to focus on negative when you're supposed to be bad. We're seeing great things from pieces we own vs worrying we may out on something we're not guaranteed.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

I know no one would likely trade that Bedard pick, but I'd at least try. I mean, shit, we've got all this draft capital.

 

[Sinurgy]

I know no one would likely trade that Bedard pick, but I'd at least try. I mean, shit, we've got all this draft capital.

Considering what McDavid is doing and scouts are talking about Bedard like he's that tier of player, I'm not confident BA could get the 1OA pick even if he offered up every single 2023, 2024 and 2025 pick the Coyotes have. Bedard is going to be one of those players that sells jerseys to other teams fans. Could you imagine having one of the "it" players of the entire NHL be a Coyotes?! It's not happening though, the ship has all but sailed. Don't worry though, the Coyotes will have a really great culture instead.

 

[hbk]

I'm saying 100% of the season didn't matter but especially post all-star when not even the most naive thought there was still a shot at the playoffs. Man I just hope like hell Chicago doesn't get Bedard! I hope he goes to Columbus or San Jose, just not Chicago...please!!


That's a fair point.

BA’s number 1 priority was securing a top 3 pick. Preferably by undermining this team to the point we finished dead last. He failed. If that’s your point then i agree.

If your point is that none of the growth of any of our players this year means anything positive then i disagree. I don’t think you can just write off 40% of the season as not being somewhat of a representative sample. I was not shocked to see numerous other franchises also undermine their competitive rosters but we have played plenty of teams these past few weeks with something to play for who we just flat out outworked. I’m not happy about it because i’m team tank but we have had several players take extremely positive steps in their development. I actually think next year we will finish worse than this year (non-linear progression).

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Considering what McDavid is doing and scouts are talking about Bedard like he's that tier of player, I'm not confident BA could get the 1OA pick even if he offered up every single 2023, 2024 and 2025 pick the Coyotes have. Bedard is going to be one of those players that sells jerseys to other teams fans. Could you imagine having one of the "it" players of the entire NHL be a Coyotes?! It's not happening though, the ship has all but sailed. Don't worry though, the Coyotes will have a really great culture instead.

That would be amazing. I personally feel like we have enough to get it done. Would it take a grossly bold overpayment? Absolutely. But we're in position to make that kind of bold move given how many picks we have.

That said, I want to speak to that culture. That's nothing to dismiss. The hardest part of any rebuild is pulling up from it. Culture does that. A winning culture starts with the belief you can win. Belief starts with fight. And I like what GMBA had to say the other day about never wanting to take the fight out of your team. Even without Bedard, this team's going to have depth and belief to turn the tide.

Point is this: Bedard is a huge want. Absolutely try your damnedest to get that want. But if it doesn't happen, know that with the draft capital we have and a culture built on the right values and belief, we'll get what we need. Rolling Stones baby.

 

[IrishFin]

I'm saying 100% of the season didn't matter but especially post all-star when not even the most naive thought there was still a shot at the playoffs. Man I just hope like hell Chicago doesn't get Bedard! I hope he goes to Columbus or San Jose, just not Chicago...please!!

I just can’t get on board with this. Keller has been lights out since the all star break and is a significant reason why they are not in the bottom 5. As much as I would have loved a better chance at Bedard, Keller is just as important to this team’s future success as our draft pick this year. He was also drafted 7th overall which is very likely where we could end up. There is still talent to be had with two top 13 picks in what people consider to be a great draft. I wouldn’t consider this garbage time points when guys like Hayton and Maccelli are also developing/contributing in a major way.

Is it ideal? No. But I’m enjoying watching this current roster grow since it is the young guys carrying the team and not aging vets like in the past.

 

[Jakey53]

BA’s number 1 priority was securing a top 3 pick. Preferably by undermining this team to the point we finished dead last. He failed. If that’s your point then i agree.

If your point is that none of the growth of any of our players this year means anything positive then i disagree. I don’t think you can just write off 40% of the season as not being somewhat of a representative sample. I was not shocked to see numerous other franchises also undermine their competitive rosters but we have played plenty of teams these past few weeks with something to play for who we just flat out outworked. I’m not happy about it because i’m team tank but we have had several players take extremely positive steps in their development. I actually think next year we will finish worse than this year (non-linear progression).

You and others have been saying for months that this is a very very good draft. So, if we pick 7th, would that be about the same as a 2nd to 3 most other drafts. The 11th maybe same a top 5 or 7, where we picked Keller? Maybe we get another Cooley and a Clarke type talent with our picks. Not a Bedard but pretty damn good haul.

 

[hbk]

You and others have been saying for months that this is a very very good draft. So, if we pick 7th, would that be about the same as a 2nd to 3 most other drafts. The 11th maybe same a top 5 or 7, where we picked Keller? Maybe we get another Cooley and a Clarke type talent with our picks. Not a Bedard but pretty damn good haul.

I will cry myself to sleep with a extremely talented player. I have zero doubt. Although i reserve the right to complain if i don’t like who they select.

 

[GhostofYotesFan47]

You and others have been saying for months that this is a very very good draft. So, if we pick 7th, would that be about the same as a 2nd to 3 most other drafts. The 11th maybe same a top 5 or 7, where we picked Keller? Maybe we get another Cooley and a Clarke type talent with our picks. Not a Bedard but pretty damn good haul.

It seems to me the top 5 is made up of 1st overalls, and 6-11ish are guys that would go 2nd to 5th overall.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

It seems to me the top 5 is made up of 1st overalls, and 6-11ish are guys that would go 2nd to 5th overall.

Top 6 guys would be considered for 1st overall in many of the last several drafts

Bedard/Fantilli/Michkov/Carlsson/Benson/Smith

But the guys 6-12 will be really good players too, just not as dynamic as the guys 1-6 if all goes to plan.

BA's words:

“I’ve been through so many drafts that you can’t control where you draft, but you can control who you pick, and that’s what you got to worry about. So at the end of the day, no matter where we lie, we’ve got to be good at picking.”

Nothing is more true than that...have to pick the right guys.