Prospect Info: 2023 Draft Thread (Yotes picking #6 & #12)

[Jamieh]

I agree. That's what I mean by "I'd rather have sense, skills, and skating at least at an average level to begin with." There's also plenty of great skaters that didn't amount to much either. I don't think great skating makes up for much of anything else.

IMO you can teach a good skater to do other things like PK, forcheck, etc that can still make them an effective 3rd or 4th liner. But if they can't skate im not sure you can make them an effective player short of being really great with other skills.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

IMO you can teach a good skater to do other things like PK, forcheck, etc that can still make them an effective 3rd or 4th liner. But if they can't skate im not sure you can make them an effective player short of being really great with other skills.

"Can't skate" is a pretty extreme comparison to what I'm actually saying. If they're that bad, they're not on my list.

 

[Jakey53]

"Can't skate" is a pretty extreme comparison to what I'm actually saying. If they're that bad, they're not on my list.

In today's NHL skating is more important than ever.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

In today's NHL skating is more important than ever.

Great! Where's the list with your OPINION? Lol Everyone just slammin' mine lol.

 

[Jamieh]

"Can't skate" is a pretty extreme comparison to what I'm actually saying. If they're that bad, they're not on my list.

I know but when you place average skating to start im not sure its right to put skating so far down your list. Thats my point, above average skating is near the top of my list.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I know but when you place average skating to start im not sure its right to put skating so far down your list. Thats my point, above average skating is near the top of my list.

I didn't create the list to be "right" lol.

 

[Jamieh]

I didn't create the list to be "right" lol.

Not you beung right, just a simple right. Like imagine saying height is the least important aspect as long as player is at least 6 foot. Or weight doesn't matter much as long as player is over 200 lbs. Thats essentially what ranking skating 4th or 5th is when putting in at least average. Again for me skating is near top of list as a singular ability. It can fall if others are bad.

 

[Jamieh]

On this note I think skills matter more for where you are drafting. If you are drafting 1st round as example an average skater with tremendous skills and hockey iq might still be a decent draft pick with work ethic possibly overcoming skating.

Whereas a 4th round pick who is a below average skater with average everything else should be avoided while a great skater with below average skills might be worth a flier as he might be able to molded into a role. Not overly likely but a better chance than the guy who can't skate.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Not you beung right, just a simple right. Like imagine saying height is the least important aspect as long as player is at least 6 foot. Or weight doesn't matter much as long as player is over 200 lbs. Thats essentially what ranking skating 4th or 5th is when putting in at least average. Again for me skating is near top of list as a singular ability. It can fall if others are bad.

I regret using the word "average" in place of "not shit" lol. I just figured that if they we're that bad at skating they wouldn't even be a part of the conversation anyways. My bad! Lol.

A player would have to be extraordinary with other assets for me to overlook below average skating.

Well, yeah! Skating is only that far down my list because I'd need to be impressed with the other things on my list ahead of skating. If I wasn't I think it's pretty obvious that skating would become even more important factor.

And again, I've never said below average skating. I meant that if they checked the other boxes I could deal with AVERAGE skating. If not, I wouldn't have someone like that in consideration anyways.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I don't want another Freddie Sjostrom or another Dylan Strome, especially with high picks.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I don't want another Freddie Sjostrom or another Dylan Strome, especially with high picks.

It all starts with good scouts and a good GM who refuses to get pushed around by people who know less than him about prospects.

 

[hbk]

I don't want another Freddie Sjostrom or another Dylan Strome, especially with high picks.

Sjostrom had all the tools but couldn't put it together to be an impact player. Same with Perlini.

Strome has turned out to be a fine 2nd line C. He has some warts but overall a good player who can make some hay on the PP. I thought he would be better myself. Expectations of being drafted at 3 ov killed him here. He has never become the player we expected.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Sjostrom had all the tools but couldn't put it together to be an impact player. Same with Perlini.



Strome has turned out to be a fine 2nd line C. He has some warts but overall a good player who can make some hay on the PP. I thought he would be better myself. Expectations of being drafted at 3 ov killed him here. He has never become the player we expected.

Strome is exactly who i was thinking of when I said other skills can sometimes make up for skating issues. Like you said, he may not have become what we hoped, but he's still had a good career in the top 6 and putting up points. Rather aim for that type of floor over a good skater that could end up playing on the 3rd or 4th line because they can't put it all together, but looks great gliding across the ice doing it.

Anyways, it's just my opinion. I like cerebral players more than the speedy ones if I can't have both.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I agree...Hockey IQ is essential, and then you look for other abilities that make players top players.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Wondering about all of our personal biases. Most prospects outside of the elite, have one or more “red flags” or at the very least, one or more “qualities” that lag behind their overall package.

For me, I’m most willing to overlook “size” and least willing to overlook “motor” - there are other issues in between. Like, skating, smarts, top end skill, or coachability.

I think when we’re looking at picks 6-12, we’re looking at kids who have one or more of these issues.

I’m wondering which of these you guys can accept more, and which of them are more like deal breakers for you all, personally.

I'm most concerned with 2 things. # of elite qualities, and # of weaknesses. I prefer guys who have elite qualities, even if they're average at everything else, to someone who has no elite qualities but is above average in everything else. I also really really don't want to draft guys with clear weaknesses, and especially multiple of them. I don't really view size as a weakness though unless they're like 5'8 and play like Chara.

For me the ideal prospect is someone who has 1 or more elite qualities and no glaring weaknesses, or put another way, someone with a high ceiling and high floor. So I pretty much go look at every prospect and go "how good are they if everything goes right, how good are they as they are now, and what do they have to work on to hit their ceiling".

I also definitely have a bias towards players who either skate well or don't have skating issues, and that's usually smaller players. Also definitely have a bias towards production, especially in mens leagues. I'll take someone who is in a mens league with 10 pts over someone in the OHL with 60 10 times out of 10.

I think it probably makes sense why I rate Carlsson so high and have Moore so much higher and Smith so much lower than most other people.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

How many more days until Lottery? I'm getting a little anxious...that could be a 'huge' week for Coyote hockey in the desert.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

How many more days until Lottery? I'm getting a little anxious...that could be a 'huge' week for Coyote hockey in the desert.

Two weeks (you do that on purpose?) lol. It will be good to no longer have to wonder just how bad we're going to get ****ed by the lottery.

 

[Jagged Ice]

I'm just assuming pick #8. Like I've been saying since December.

 

[lanky]

This is my order of importance:

- Hockey Sense
- Puck Skills
- Motor
- Skating
- Work Ethic (Coachability, leadership qualities, etc.)
- Size & Strength

I feel like good sense, puck skills, and motor can somewhat make up for skating issues. I could flip placement of skating and work ethic depending on the prospect. Work ethic is important and can be the difference maker in player improvement, but it can't fix every player's issue(s) so I'd rather they have the sense, skills, and skating at least at an average level to begin with. Size is important too, but having a size issue on your roster is easy to fix via trade.

My order of priority

1) Growth mindset (what you called work ethic)
2) Hockey sense
3) Size
4) Skating
5) Motor
6) Puck skills

The trouble is that us arm chair scouts can't evaluate 1) and evaluating 2) isn't easy.
The others are pretty straight forward - I have size at the top of them.

I think Garland succeeded because he had a growth mindset. He learned that he needed to evolve his game to make it to the big leagues, so he did.

I think Dylan Strome disappointed because he didn't have a growth mindset. He knew he had a special combination of skills, size and hockey sense. He found a ton of success at the junior level based on that and he never felt like he needed to grow later in his career.

 

[Jakey53]

It all starts with good scouts and a good GM who refuses to get pushed around by people who know less than him about prospects.

It all starts with whomever has the biggest horseshoe up their ass.

 

[Sinurgy]

Sjostrom had all the tools but couldn't put it together to be an impact player. Same with Perlini.

Strome has turned out to be a fine 2nd line C. He has some warts but overall a good player who can make some hay on the PP. I thought he would be better myself. Expectations of being drafted at 3 ov killed him here. He has never become the player we expected.

I agree but when it comes to expectations that's not just us having them, no one wants a solid 2C from their 3rd overall pick.

 

[Sinurgy]

I don't want another Freddie Sjostrom or another Dylan Strome, especially with high picks.

Or Lisin, Korpikoski, Perlini, etc.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

My order of priority

1) Growth mindset (what you called work ethic)
2) Hockey sense
3) Size
4) Skating
5) Motor
6) Puck skills

The trouble is that us arm chair scouts can't evaluate 1) and evaluating 2) isn't easy.
The others are pretty straight forward - I have size at the top of them.

I think Garland succeeded because he had a growth mindset. He learned that he needed to evolve his game to make it to the big leagues, so he did.

I think Dylan Strome disappointed because he didn't have a growth mindset. He knew he had a special combination of skills, size and hockey sense. He found a ton of success at the junior level based on that and he never felt like he needed to grow later in his career.

Good list. Growth mindset is certainly important for every player.

I always had the impression that Strome took his skill and NHL success for granted too. Like he expected ice time to be gifted to him. Still seems like he could be content where he's at with no desire to be more.

I loved Garland's motor when he was on his game. I had given up on him not too long before they gave him his chance and ran with it. Just one of many examples of why to put little faith in my scouting skillz lol.

 

[hbk]

I agree but when it comes to expectations that's not just us having them, no one wants a solid 2C from their 3rd overall pick.

If you have a top 5 player you want someone who can impact the game. A play driver not just a complimentary piece. There’s a pile of guys who i think are going to be great 2nd line players that i really like for the 12th overall pick. That selection has so many choices. Where i struggle is my top 6-8. I want a potential star player. A first line star player. Even though i really like those names at 12 when it comes to our pick in the first i will be hard pressed to pass on Smith who has that potential to be an elite player offensively. U18’s have been amazing so far. My list has changed shift by shift.

 

[PHX FireBirds18]

For me and this is preference but I value character and leadership above all. In this day and age everyone can skate and play with the puck. Give me the guy that makes those around him better and creates culture. With that said I do lean towards playmakers in general. Although these days seems like there’s a lot more shoot first centers so maybe that’s changing for me as well. I would probably say having an elite shot and the ability to create a good one.