Prospect Info: 2023 Draft Thread (Yotes picking #6 & #12)

[Foggy1097]

Guess I should have checked the other thread haha

 

[zerekstar]

MSN

Poor kid

 

[lanky]

Watching a bit more Dragicevic vs Heidt and Ziemmer. Dragicevic is very impressive. His skating is really not a problem.

I think what his detractors dislike about him is his pace. In the neutral zone and offensive zone Dragicevic plays at a 7/10 pace. In the defensive zone he plays at a 5/10 pace.

His reads, dangles and setups really stand out. Seems more interested in putting a sneaky wrister on net from the blue line instead of a big slapper. He helps control the play and slants the ice downhill.

I'd be happy with him as the pick at 11/12.

 

[rt]

Watching a bit more Dragicevic vs Heidt and Ziemmer. Dragicevic is very impressive. His skating is really not a problem.

I think what his detractors dislike about him is his pace. In the neutral zone and offensive zone Dragicevic plays at a 7/10 pace. In the defensive zone he plays at a 5/10 pace.

His reads, dangles and setups really stand out. Seems more interested in putting a sneaky wrister on net from the blue line instead of a big slapper. He helps control the play and slants the ice downhill.

I'd be happy with him as the pick at 11/12.

I’ve been a big fan of his for two seasons now. I think he plays a smart game at an effective pace for a blueliner. I wonder, though, about how it translates. Of course, he can and will still develop.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Super interesting twitter thread here.

 

[Llewzaher]

Super interesting twitter thread here.

I am not sure I understand that tweet, but is that how we rate Cooley compared with the rest of the prospects ?

 

[Magonus1703]

Super interesting twitter thread here.

This seems ridiculous. Jiricek's point potential is 113 for one season?

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Was there a lot of guessing in assembling that chart? Doesn't seem very credible. Am I missing something? Obviously they came up with some way to inflate D points to better compare to the F's. Just looks like a lot of guessing and fudging numbers.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

People just be throwing numbers on a graphic and act like it’s some meaningful mathematical certainties. It’s just totally arbitrary ass numbers

 

[hbk]

People just be throwing numbers on a graphic and act like it’s some meaningful mathematical certainties. It’s just totally arbitrary ass numbers

That’s just a popularity contest. A literal popularity contest.

 

[lanky]

I think you're all interpreting that incorrectly.

It's a list of NHL equivalency of the point output of these prospects in their various development leagues. It's a model. Numbers in, numbers out. It has nothing to do with popularity or subjective projections. No one is acting like it offers any kind of certainty. It's just a neat, informative list.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think you're all interpreting that incorrectly.

It's a list of NHL equivalency of the point output of these prospects in their various development leagues. It's a model. Numbers in, numbers out. It has nothing to do with popularity or subjective projections. No one is acting like it offers any kind of certainty. It's just a neat, informative list.

Yes. The design is meant to further the idea of how does an 18yo player who scores 8 G/21 A in 54 games playing at the highest level in Liiga vs an OHL player with 38 G/46 A in 72 games.

One is playing against peers of similar age and one is playing against men in Liiga, but they also may not be at the greatest skill level.


This was my one area of concern regarding last year's and this year's draft. Last year had far better defensive prospect depth. This year's forward class is super deep. I get the feeling that some of the forwards available at 10 this year would have been guaranteed top 5 picks last year (or are at least comparable to more of the top 5 forwards in 2022).

Since we are building for future, I just thought we could have gone Jiricek last season, and then gone after the same picks as we did. Now, we lack as big of a glaring hole in defense prospects (Lamoreaux is still a pretty big project).

If we just stay where the picks are (AZ at 6 and OTT at 12), I see some D prospects that are near that 12 range, but one also has to question if the defenseman are really comparable to the offensive talent, or is that player moved up because someone has to be the player who moves up. Plus, all it takes is one team to take Reinbacher (whom I believe will be the first D off board) in between our picks and now do we reach for a defenseman at 12? Seems like for such a valuable draft, we have less value to work from.

It kind of comes down to if we think that it is better to have Cooley, Geekie, #6, #12, and Lamoreaux, or would it have been better to have Jiricek, Geekie, #6, #12, and Lamoreaux? As good as Cooley has been, I do think that a player like Smith, Yager, Carlsson or even getting down to Danielson might be in the same context as a Cooley. And we get two of those types of players after the trade with Ottawa.

My hope is that the 2nd round picks are all players that are underrated on D and we can pick and choose those players. Just seems like the strength of quality in this year's draft does not align with making a well-rounded team. We will have a ton of talent at forward, but I am extremely nervous about the blue line depth. Understanding that we have 2nd rounders to move back up in the 1st can help, but teams were already not willing to part with 2023 picks a lot. So long as we get the right picks out of those players, everything should be fine, but it just seems like we aren't playing to the strengths of the draft, necessarily.

 

[hbk]

Yes. The design is meant to further the idea of how does an 18yo player who scores 8 G/21 A in 54 games playing at the highest level in Liiga vs an OHL player with 38 G/46 A in 72 games.

One is playing against peers of similar age and one is playing against men in Liiga, but they also may not be at the greatest skill level.


This was my one area of concern regarding last year's and this year's draft. Last year had far better defensive prospect depth. This year's forward class is super deep. I get the feeling that some of the forwards available at 10 this year would have been guaranteed top 5 picks last year (or are at least comparable to more of the top 5 forwards in 2022).

Since we are building for future, I just thought we could have gone Jiricek last season, and then gone after the same picks as we did. Now, we lack as big of a glaring hole in defense prospects (Lamoreaux is still a pretty big project).

If we just stay where the picks are (AZ at 6 and OTT at 12), I see some D prospects that are near that 12 range, but one also has to question if the defenseman are really comparable to the offensive talent, or is that player moved up because someone has to be the player who moves up. Plus, all it takes is one team to take Reinbacher (whom I believe will be the first D off board) in between our picks and now do we reach for a defenseman at 12? Seems like for such a valuable draft, we have less value to work from.

It kind of comes down to if we think that it is better to have Cooley, Geekie, #6, #12, and Lamoreaux, or would it have been better to have Jiricek, Geekie, #6, #12, and Lamoreaux? As good as Cooley has been, I do think that a player like Smith, Yager, Carlsson or even getting down to Danielson might be in the same context as a Cooley. And we get two of those types of players after the trade with Ottawa.

My hope is that the 2nd round picks are all players that are underrated on D and we can pick and choose those players. Just seems like the strength of quality in this year's draft does not align with making a well-rounded team. We will have a ton of talent at forward, but I am extremely nervous about the blue line depth. Understanding that we have 2nd rounders to move back up in the 1st can help, but teams were already not willing to part with 2023 picks a lot. So long as we get the right picks out of those players, everything should be fine, but it just seems like we aren't playing to the strengths of the draft, necessarily.

Jiricek is a hell of a talent but we haven’t had a top line C in 20 years. Cooley is the most dynamic prospect put there right now and is arguably the top drafted prospect in the entire league. I don’t thi k we can be upset about it. We need impact players and Cooley is better than advertised and i had him 2nd on my list last year.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

If it weren't for "The Tale of Nail" I would bitterly disappointed that we weren't in the top 3. I'm actually thrilled that we have 2 bites at the apple in this draft, even if it doesn't give us that 1 in 5 chance of landing a generational player.

 

[lanky]

I like Reinbacher at 7.
I like Dragicevic at 12.
I like Bonk and Strbak at 38.

None of these are a reach relative to the quality of forwards that will be available. I hope hope we take one of these guys but I trust that we'll find and develop enough dmen even if we don't.

I think that Kolyachonok and Kesselring are NHL caliber players right now and they're struggling to earn a roster spot. This is just an example to highlight that there aren't that many spots available. A super deep well of D prospects reaches its limits of utility pretty quickly. See Ontario Reign.

 

[hbk]

I’m okay with 2 forwards in 1st. Trust the list.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

BPA regardless of position. Trade them for need later on if necessary.

 

[Dead Coyote]

This seems ridiculous. Jiricek's point potential is 113 for one season?

It's not saying they'll have these number of points in the NHL, it's comparing prospects based on point totals and adjusting a) for defenseman generally having less points than forwards and b) for the league they're in. You can think of it as projecting their level compared to their peers, not point totals. For example, Bedard has some of the highest point totals in the CHL ever, so it looks at every other player who's had similar point totals in that league, looks at how they did in the NHL, and then projects based on that, that he could be a star franchise player.

It's not the best because it only looks at points but it's still a good comparison among prospects.

 

[rt]

I like Reinbacher at 7.
I like Dragicevic at 12.
I like Bonk and Strbak at 38.

None of these are a reach relative to the quality of forwards that will be available. I hope hope we take one of these guys but I trust that we'll find and develop enough dmen even if we don't.

I think that Kolyachonok and Kesselring are NHL caliber players right now and they're struggling to earn a roster spot. This is just an example to highlight that there aren't that many spots available. A super deep well of D prospects reaches its limits of utility pretty quickly. See Ontario Reign.

I also like Brzustewicz and Molendyk at 38.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Jiricek is a hell of a talent but we haven’t had a top line C in 20 years. Cooley is the most dynamic prospect put there right now and is arguably the top drafted prospect in the entire league. I don’t thi k we can be upset about it. We need impact players and Cooley is better than advertised and i had him 2nd on my list last year.

Yep, it was Jiricek just ahead of Cooley for me with that spot. The tough thing for me is that picks 7 and 12 this year, I think we find two players who are as good as Cooley and Geekie combined.

That is where I struggle with this, although Cooley has looked in incredibly impressive. My other take is that if we move up in the lottery to the top 2, we are guaranteed a player that is likely at the level of or better than Cooley. Not a risk many would likely take, but I think this is one of those times where 1 draft is so legitimately deep with top forwards that it may have been better to zag last year by going much heavier on D and build the offense out this year.

 

[rt]

Yep, it was Jiricek just ahead of Cooley for me with that spot. The tough thing for me is that picks 7 and 12 this year, I think we find two players who are as good as Cooley and Geekie combined.

That is where I struggle with this, although Cooley has looked in incredibly impressive. My other take is that if we move up in the lottery to the top 2, we are guaranteed a player that is likely at the level of or better than Cooley. Not a risk many would likely take, but I think this is one of those times where 1 draft is so legitimately deep with top forwards that it may have been better to zag last year by going much heavier on D and build the offense out this year.

Have you watched Logan Cooley play hockey?

 

[Heldig]

Yep, it was Jiricek just ahead of Cooley for me with that spot. The tough thing for me is that picks 7 and 12 this year, I think we find two players who are as good as Cooley and Geekie combined.

That is where I struggle with this, although Cooley has looked in incredibly impressive. My other take is that if we move up in the lottery to the top 2, we are guaranteed a player that is likely at the level of or better than Cooley. Not a risk many would likely take, but I think this is one of those times where 1 draft is so legitimately deep with top forwards that it may have been better to zag last year by going much heavier on D and build the offense out this year.

If the Coyotes win the lottery then Cooley will only be the third best player in the organization.

 

[Dead Coyote]

If the Coyotes win the lottery then Cooley will only be the third best player in the organization.

...Who's the 2nd?

Or are we putting Keller, Schmaltz, Crouse, etc in the conversation? Because Bedard and Cooley are much better than Guenther, and I really like Guenther.

 

[rt]

...Who's the 2nd?

Or are we putting Keller, Schmaltz, Crouse, etc in the conversation? Because Bedard and Cooley are much better than Guenther, and I really like Guenther.

He means Keller.

 

[Heldig]

He means Keller.

Yes.

Bedard / Keller / Cooley
Keller / Fantilli / Cooley

...Who's the 2nd?

Or are we putting Keller, Schmaltz, Crouse, etc in the conversation? Because Bedard and Cooley are much better than Guenther, and I really like Guenther.