2023 Draft Discussion

[Frk It]

Yeah I just see it differently. I really considered putting Dvorsky at #5 on my ranking over Smith. He is someone I would draft top 10 and sleep good at night, compared to some of these other guys where I might not.

Maybe my take on him is too influenced by his play at the U18s and Hlinka, but I’ve never seen him play for Slovakia and thought “I wish this guy was more skilled”.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Yeah I just see it differently. I really considered putting Dvorsky at #5 on my ranking over Smith. He is someone I would draft top 10 and sleep good at night, compared to some of these other guys where I might not.

Maybe my take on him is too influenced by his play at the U18s and Hlinka, but I’ve never seen him play for Slovakia and thought “I wish this guy was more skilled”.

Yeah, I feel like I don't need to make the case for Dvorsky. The guy's great, his play speaks for itself. He has a game that translates so easily with both huge potential and a high floor. He's smart, skilled, knows how to hold onto the puck, responsible, solid shot, good passer, has hands. Is he perfect, no, but I'm just not sure what people want if they're upset with taking Dvorsky at 9. Most years, you're excited to get him at 3rd overall.

 

[SantosHalper]

Do I really need to explain how centers with size rise every single year and smaller wingers fall? The fact that one is #7 and the other is #9 definitely is NOT in Dvorsky's favor. Benson is a better player, or else he wouldn't even be considered in the top 10. Teams reach for center and defensemen with size every single draft, hence this final rankings

Then how come Leonard is not falling? If Benson "is simply so much better at basically everything" then he should ahead of Dvorsky in the rankings regardless of the size and position. But he is not better than Dvorsky.

 

[norrisnick]

If Dvorsky were a little bit quicker and a little more assertive in his play he'd be Leo Carlsson.

 

[Realgud]

Then how come Leonard is not falling? If Benson "is simply so much better at basically everything" then he should ahead of Dvorsky in the rankings regardless of the size and position. But he is not better than Dvorsky.

Leonard is fast, unlike Benson and Dvorsky. He's also more consistently physical. They are all somewhat physical and all good defensively. There are other factors but the skating speed is the biggest one. Also he's almost 6'0. Benson is almost 5'10.

 

[Holden Caufield]

Wired at #9) Dvorsky, Wood, Benson or Perrault

Tired at #9) Danielson, Reinbacher or Willander

Wired at #17) Moore, Barlow, Musty or Stenberg

Tired at #17) ASP, Ritchie or Yager

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If Dvorsky were a little bit quicker and a little more assertive in his play he'd be Leo Carlsson.

He has the right mechanics and work ethic at least from the outside to give a favorable projection there. If Dvorsky can find a gear in his skating and a tick more acceleration as he develops and he has more strength to gain he becomes a really dynamic center prospect.

I know some around here don't like them as much but that is something that I don't question for a second on Danielson and Moore. I think it is already a strength of their game. Dvorsky displays better hands and vision in a lot of ways, but will he be able to create the space he needs. It really is splitting hair stuff. I will in no way be disappointed with Dvorsky at #9. There is a lot to develop, he has a ton to work with in my opinion.

 

[Murmansk16A]

Leonard is fast, unlike Benson and Dvorsky. He's also more consistently physical. They are all somewhat physical and all good defensively. There are other factors but the skating speed is the biggest one. Also he's almost 6'0. Benson is almost 5'10.

One of the videos posted here somewhere about draft prospects talked about Benson, and they were worried he would have an injury riddled career like Robby Fabbri. Both small guys who play more physically than most guys their size, leading to more injuries. Said he was injured in this most recent junior playoff.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think there are very few picks I will hate at #9, feeling positive about that spot.

 

[Realgud]

One of the videos posted here somewhere about draft prospects talked about Benson, and they were worried he would have an injury riddled career like Robby Fabbri. Both small guys who play more physically than most guys their size, leading to more injuries. Said he was injured in this most recent junior playoff.

Yep, that's a fair concern, thanks for sharing. I'm not saying picking Benson is without its risks. You pick Benson because he's a first overall type of talent. The size, skating speed and injury concerns are definitely there. He has concerns, just like Michkov, that's why they're most likely to drop even though they are super talented.

 

[Frk It]

I think there are very few picks I will hate at #9, feeling positive about that spot.

I would be happy with all the guys McKenzie had ranked 7-12: Dvorsky, Reinbacher, Perreault, Wood, Barlow

If we took someone after that then it starts to get hit or miss for me.

He has the right mechanics and work ethic at least from the outside to give a favorable projection there. If Dvorsky can find a gear in his skating and a tick more acceleration as he develops and he has more strength to gain he becomes a really dynamic center prospect.

I know some around here don't like them as much but that is something that I don't question for a second on Danielson and Moore. I think it is already a strength of their game. Dvorsky displays better hands and vision in a lot of ways, but will he be able to create the space he needs. It really is splitting hair stuff. I will in no way be disappointed with Dvorsky at #9. There is a lot to develop, he has a ton to work with in my opinion.

Did you buy The Black Book this year? They were very concerned about Moore’s hockey IQ. Reads similar to me about them not liking Veleno as much as the consensus that year. They think because of that he probably gets kicked to the wing.

 

[Vector Cereal]

I know it’s important to be critical of each player, but I think with the reported quality of the top end in this draft, we shouldn’t be so dismissive of the idea that the player we pick at #9 could be a star or even the best forward on our team. Looking at the “good” drafts in the last 10 years (2013, 2015, 2019) the players picked from 6-12, there some real star quality there.
2013
Monahan
Nurse
Ristolainen
Horvat
Nichushkin
Morin
Domi

2015
Zacha
Provorov
Werenski
Meier
Rantanen
Crouse
Gurianov

2019
Seider
Cozens
Broberg
Zegras
Podkolzin
Soderstrom
Boldy

Ignoring positions and just looking at calibre of player, Horvat, Werenski, Meier, Rantanen, Seider, Cozens, Zegras, and Boldy would all make massive differences for the team. Monahan, Nurse, Nichushkin, Zacha, Provorov, and Crouse would all be varying levels of useful but disappointing at 9. Of the 21 picks listed, 8 are stars and 6 more are very good middle 6 or second pair guys

 

[HoweFan]

I don’t know who I want us to take at 9 or 17. I’m even starting to like the guys I didn’t like. I do hope we keep every pick

 

[jfrank21]

Wired at #9) Dvorsky, Wood, Benson or Perrault

Tired at #9) Danielson, Reinbacher or Willander

Wired at #17) Moore, Barlow, Musty or Stenberg

Tired at #17) ASP, Ritchie or Yager

I just have to mention once again that reports are now coming out that Ritchie played the entire season with a bum shoulder. I would not be upset with him at 17 or if the Wings somehow moved back up to those low 20s and grabbed him.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I don’t know who I want us to take at 9 or 17. I’m even starting to like the guys I didn’t like. I do hope we keep every pick

The draft is so deep there are no bad options, although I would rather draft #9 and trade #17 for a center like Lindholm.

 

[Killerjas]

Just take BPA and not overthink it by drafting on need.

 

[SantosHalper]

Leonard is fast, unlike Benson and Dvorsky. He's also more consistently physical. They are all somewhat physical and all good defensively. There are other factors but the skating speed is the biggest one. Also he's almost 6'0. Benson is almost 5'10.

Leonard is still smaller than Dvorsky and a winger, and ahead of Dvorsky in the rankings because he is a better player.

 

[Realgud]

Leonard is still smaller than Dvorsky and a winger, and ahead of Dvorsky in the rankings because he is a better player.

Being 6'0 and a fast skater matters. If you count this as being "better", then sure. "Better" to me is only based on hockey talent, but there are more factors than just hockey talent which is why "worse" players get picked before other players, it happens all the time or else Gaudreau wouldn't have been picked in the fourth round or Kotkaniemi 3rd overall. Like, I would pick Honzek ahead of Cristall even though I think Cristall is a better player with more talent but I think it's quite clear why Honzek is ranked ahead and will be picked ahead.

 

[Henkka]

Just take BPA and not overthink it by drafting on need.

I'm fine with most picks as long as our 1st rounders aren't left handed defencemen.

 

[Hoog]

If you had to make a choice between Edstrom and Wahlberg who would you take?

I like Edstrom more, got a more complete game, imo. I have made him my player of choice at #17, even though thats high compared to most mocks. However, he played a little for Frolunda so I'm sure Steve has a good read on him.

I do really like Wahlberg though and have consistently picked him with one of my seconds. I also like Felix Nilsson a lot and have picked him with Wahlberg or if Walhberg was gone in the second. He plays for Rogel so I'm sure the Wings kniw what he can do.

I'd love to get all three.

 

[jkutswings]

Just a few more days! And then we can shift from debating the what ifs to debating the what might have beens.

 

[SantosHalper]

Being 6'0 and a fast skater matters. If you count this as being "better", then sure. "Better" to me is only based on hockey talent, but there are more factors than just hockey talent which is why "worse" players get picked before other players, it happens all the time or else Gaudreau wouldn't have been picked in the fourth round or Kotkaniemi 3rd overall. Like, I would pick Honzek ahead of Cristall even though I think Cristall is a better player with more talent but I think it's quite clear why Honzek is ranked ahead and will be picked ahead.

Ranking list literally ranks the players from best to worst, at the draft, team needs and more valuable positions comes in play.

Danielson and Perreault for example. Perreault is now 10th and Danielson is 16th but at the draft Danielson rises 5-6 spots easily, and Perreault could fall the same 5-6 spots.

This is what real scouts said about Dvorsky and Benson.

- Dalibor Dvorsky, the physically mature 6-foot-1, 200-pound Slovak centre who is No. 7 on TSN’s final list. Dvorsky is viewed as perhaps the most complete player in the Top 10 and while some scouts debate how high, or limited, his offensive ceiling may be, five of 10 scouts had him solidly at No. 6. But a couple had him just outside the Top 10, at No. 11.

“Big Five?” another scout chimed. “I think it could very well be [a Super Six] with Dvorsky in that group [regardless of when/where Michkov goes]. A big centre with elite hockey sense, elite competitiveness and I believe the offence is there when he plays in his peer group. The only knock is he’s not an explosive skater.”

That scout isn’t the only one who believes Dvorsky warrants inclusion in the Super Six.

“Don’t sleep on Dvorsky,” another said.

Winnipeg Ice left winger Zach Benson is only 5-foot-10 and 170 pounds and doesn’t possess blinding speed, but is so smart, creative and competitive that he still checks in at No. 9 on our list. Eight of 10 scouts had him in their Top 10 but the other two had him between 15 and 20.

The real scouts considers Dvorsky as a better player than Benson. If Benson "is simply so much better at basically everything" or "he's a first overall type of talent.", then Benson would be in that "super six"-group or then it would be called "super-7".

You can like him as much as you want but he is not better player/talent than Dvorsky.

 

[raymond23]

It's strictly from clips but I see a lot of Zadina in Dvorsky. Not sure he's a good enough athlete and I just don't come away impressed when he has the puck on his stick.

 

[Realgud]

Ranking list literally ranks the players from best to worst, at the draft, team needs and more valuable positions comes in play.

Danielson and Perreault for example. Perreault is now 10th and Danielson is 16th but at the draft Danielson rises 5-6 spots easily, and Perreault could fall the same 5-6 spots.

This is what real scouts said about Dvorsky and Benson.



The real scouts considers Dvorsky as a better player than Benson. If Benson "is simply so much better at basically everything" or "he's a first overall type of talent.", then Benson would be in that "super six"-group or then it would be called "super-7".

You can like him as much as you like but he is not better player/talent than Dvorsky.

Ranking lists do not always list from best to worst, it historically underrates smaller players because they are riskier. This year would be Benson, Cristall, Brindley, Perron...

Among the real scouts, McKenzie only get the input of 10 of them, and furthermore, the scouts get it wrong all the time. Seider wasn't seen as a better player than Turcotte or Dach by "real scouts". Getting hung up on "real scouts" opinions isn't much of an argument... except if Steve and co. have that opinion

Your example of Perreault vs Danielson to explain your point is good, I'll give you that.

Non real scouts publications like EP have Benson at 5 and thinks he's a first overall talent. And I totally agree with them on that one.

 

[Oddbob]

Just a few more days! And then we can shift from debating the what ifs to debating the what might have beens.

Yeah, what might have been if Kindl had turned out!