2023 Draft Discussion

[HoweFan]

I smirk a little at Craig Buttons mock draft. In his ranking list he goes off the charts and rates Pellikka at 5 giving him glowing reviews. He had Reinbacher at 20. In his mock draft he has Reinbacher as the first dman going and in the top ten. Pellikka and Willander follow closely behind but maybe the scouts are telling him something

 

[norrisnick]

Im hoping.

1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Mitchkov
5. Smith
6. Reinbacher
7. Leonard
8. Dvorsky or Benson

The top-4 is set but after that things are quite open. Montreal could use a defenseman but Smith is a clear BPA and there's been lot's of rumours of them liking Leonard. Arizona has 1 decent D prospect, they are bound to pick Reinbacher. New Flyers POHO said that they need to rebuild team starting from the defense and Reinbacher is most likely gone by then, Philly takes Leonard then.

But if the rumours are true that Montreal really likes Leonard, then Arizona could take Smith and Philly picks Reinbacher. I don't see Dvorsky being picked between 5-7, Montreal & Arizona have different needs and that might even drop Smith to #7.

Caps are aging badly, they could really use Dvorsky. That is going to be the most nerve wrecking moment in the draft.

Benson is more skilled but overally Dvorsky is a better player. Dvorsky would have outscored and outplayed Benson, if also he would have played in WHL.

Yuup. I'd toss a 3rd or 4th at them just to have them take someone else. They only have 5 picks this draft. (8, 40, 104, 136, 200

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Im hoping.

1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Mitchkov
5. Smith
6. Reinbacher
7. Leonard
8. Dvorsky or Benson

The top-4 is set but after that things are quite open. Montreal could use a defenseman but Smith is a clear BPA and there's been lot's of rumours of them liking Leonard. Arizona has 1 decent D prospect, they are bound to pick Reinbacher. New Flyers POHO said that they need to rebuild team starting from the defense and Reinbacher is most likely gone by then, Philly takes Leonard then.

But if the rumours are true that Montreal really likes Leonard, then Arizona could take Smith and Philly picks Reinbacher. I don't see Dvorsky being picked between 5-7, Montreal & Arizona have different needs and that might even drop Smith to #7.

Caps are aging badly, they could really use Dvorsky. That is going to be the most nerve wrecking moment in the draft.

Benson is more skilled but overally Dvorsky is a better player. Dvorsky would have outscored and outplayed Benson, if also he would have played in WHL.

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

 

[Hoog]

I'm starting to lean to a:

9. Nate Danielson, C/W, 6'2", RH
17. David Edstrom, C/W, 6'3", LH

Both have size, versatility, are responsible in their own end, and show upside offense. I think these are the types Steve gravitates to when picking, great 2 way guys.

Some are saying Honzek but the dude doesn't play a heavy game, actually kind of a puss from what I can tell. These 2 will get dirty in the corners and in front of the net.

 

[norrisnick]

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

Teenagers vs men.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Teenagers vs men.

Sure he gets that pass if it was the SHL. Pretty bad numbers for 2nd tier swedish league.

11th on his team in scoring. Team worst -19.

He had a very good u18.

 

[jkutswings]

I'm starting to lean to a:

9. Nate Danielson, C/W, 6'2", RH
17. David Edstrom, C/W, 6'3", LH

Both have size, versatility, are responsible in their own end, and show upside offense. I think these are the types Steve gravitates to when picking, great 2 way guys.

Some are saying Honzek but the dude doesn't play a heavy game, actually kind of a puss from what I can tell. These 2 will get dirty in the corners and in front of the net.

I'd be totally cool with adding Danielson. But there's a good chance he's there at 17, and I'd rather grab Benson or Dvorsky or Reinbacher at 9 first.

 

[Hoog]

I'd be totally cool with adding Danielson. But there's a good chance he's there at 17, and I'd rather grab Benson or Dvorsky or Reinbacher at 9 first.

Danielson is a hot name right now due to his skating and size. I don't see him being there at #17, but I'd be alright if we went with any of your options, just prefer Danielson now that I did more research.

 

[SantosHalper]

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

Sure he gets that pass if it was the SHL. Pretty bad numbers for 2nd tier swedish league.

11th on his team in scoring. Team worst -19.

He had a very good u18.

Allsvenskan is a men's league, Dvorsky would have destroyed the WHL this year. Dvorsky's team AIK wasn't a top team in Allsvenskan, they finished in 10th place this year. And Dvorsky was by far the youngest player in that team.

And speaking of the Junior tournaments, 2 x U20 WJC tournaments. 9 games and 5 points in a defensive role and as a underaged. Hlinka Gretzky cup, 5 games and 12 points in addition to great U18 tournament. Leading Slovakia to medal round games.

In J20 level Dvorsky(1.42ppg) has outscored the likes Henrik Sedin(1.38), Mikael Backlund(1.35), William Nylander(1.32), Elias Lindholm(1.29), William Karlsson(1.25), Carl Hagelin(1.17), Lucas Raymond(1.15), Gustav Nyquist(1.14) and Jonathan Berggren(1.03) and others.

Filip Forsberg 2011-12, 43 games and 17 points. Leksands was top-2 team that year in Allsvenskan. And during the the same season Forsberg played 6 J20 games and scored 1 assist. Dvorsky played 10 J20 games and scored 21 points. Dvorsky played 5 games less in Allsvenskan this year than Forsberg in 11-12. Dvorsky also outscores Forsberg in NT level.

Im starting to find this extremely amusing, Benson is falling in the rankings everywhere and Dvorsky is rising. And yet people here still claim that Benson far better player

Must be NA-bias thing....

 

[lilidk]

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

What about Raymond? In his draft year in u20 he had not as good numbers as Dvorsky this year

 

[WingsToPick4th]

I'm starting to lean to a:

9. Nate Danielson, C/W, 6'2", RH
17. David Edstrom, C/W, 6'3", LH

Both have size, versatility, are responsible in their own end, and show upside offense. I think these are the types Steve gravitates to when picking, great 2 way guys.

Some are saying Honzek but the dude doesn't play a heavy game, actually kind of a puss from what I can tell. These 2 will get dirty in the corners and in front of the net.

thank god your not the GM lol

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What about Raymond? In his draft year in u20 he had not as good numbers as Dvorsky this year

Different teams/systems. How much has scoring in J20 grown since then?

I'm starting to lean to a:

9. Nate Danielson, C/W, 6'2", RH
17. David Edstrom, C/W, 6'3", LH

Both have size, versatility, are responsible in their own end, and show upside offense. I think these are the types Steve gravitates to when picking, great 2 way guys.

Some are saying Honzek but the dude doesn't play a heavy game, actually kind of a puss from what I can tell. These 2 will get dirty in the corners and in front of the net.

I wouldn’t be mad at it. I think Edstrom sneaks into the 1st. And I really don’t think Danielson goes later than 12th this year. He’s got all you want in a top 6 center.

 

[Realgud]

Im starting to find this extremely amusing, Benson is falling in the rankings everywhere and Dvorsky is rising. And yet people here still claim that Benson far better player

Must be NA-bias thing....

Do I really need to explain how centers with size rise every single year and smaller wingers fall? The fact that one is #7 and the other is #9 definitely is NOT in Dvorsky's favor. Benson is a better player, or else he wouldn't even be considered in the top 10. Teams reach for center and defensemen with size every single draft, hence this final rankings.

On the other hand, I think those using Dvorsky's production vs men to argue against him while he shredded every junior competition is also arguing in bad faith. Dvorsky is a great prospect in his own right but I find him very risky for a multitude of reasons that are strictly my opinions. No need to put one or the other down, people will have different opinions. My opinion comes from watching both extensively during the season. That's it.

Like I said, if Dvorsky was the pick at 9 and Benson drop, I would totally see the appeal and trust that the Wings know what to do with his development. He has a great mind for the game and is very mature and coachable, these are great traits to have for a young player.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I like the frame and hands with Dvorsky, but I just can't endorse a player who processes the game that slowly. Hope I'm wrong but I think he projects as a far more frustrating NHLer than folks anticipate. I don't have a ton of time for centers who take too long to make decisions and still make the wrong one.

 

[jfrank21]

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

You seem to be confusing playing men vs playing kids. I love Benson as well, but you slap Dvorsky in the dub and he's putting up 1.5ppg minimum and he's 6'1 200lbs. He put up over 2 points per game in the J20.

Edit: And I see I'm late to the party with that statement. But still, the point stands. For the record, I want them both....either one at 9 and I'm thrilled. Going to be pretty crushed if they end up passing on one or the other.

 

[jkutswings]

Different teams/systems. How much has scoring in J20 grown since then?



I wouldn’t be mad at it. I think Edstrom sneaks into the 1st. And I really don’t think Danielson goes later than 12th this year. He’s got all you want in a top 6 center.

I don't want to sound like I'm knocking Danielson. I'd be 100 percent on board taking him at 17, and he seems to be exceptionally well rounded. But I haven't heard anybody claim that he has a realistic shot at playing on a first line, while both Dvorsky and Benson (for very different reasons) are still in the mix between first and second line players.

I want a bigger swing at 9 than Danielson, then by all means take him if he's still there at 17 (or if there's a palatable trade up from 17 to the 12-14 range, if Detroit wants him that badly).

 

[Frk It]

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

When has Dvorsky not been dominant playing against kids his age?

Answer : never

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Ok, I will say it then, Danielson has first line potential. Some guys continue to progress and get better. No reason to think he can't as well.

We need this dude. We go Larkin, Kasper, Danielson down the middle, with the potential D we can throw out? We gonna wreck some folks.

I don't know, I am deep in the tank on Danielson, I should probably chill.

 

[Frk It]

Do I really need to explain how centers with size rise every single year and smaller wingers fall? The fact that one is #7 and the other is #9 definitely is NOT in Dvorsky's favor. Benson is a better player, or else he wouldn't even be considered in the top 10. Teams reach for center and defensemen with size every single draft, hence this final rankings.

On the other hand, I think those using Dvorsky's production vs men to argue against him while he shredded every junior competition is also arguing in bad faith. Dvorsky is a great prospect in his own right but I find him very risky for a multitude of reasons that are strictly my opinions. No need to put one or the other down, people will have different opinions. My opinion comes from watching both extensively during the season. That's it.

Like I said, if Dvorsky was the pick at 9 and Benson drop, I would totally see the appeal and trust that the Wings know what to do with his development. He has a great mind for the game and is very mature and coachable, these are great traits to have for a young player.

I disagree with that first paragraph pretty strongly. How is being ranked higher not in your favor? I don’t think Dvorsky is ranked higher only because he is a center. I think part of it is he is less risky and has a higher floor and is just a good player in his own right.

Have people seen what this kid has done for Slovakia the last 2 years? He’s been nothing short of phenomenal. He rises his game when they play the big countries too.

 

[Realgud]

I disagree with that first paragraph pretty strongly. How is being ranked higher not in your favor? I don’t think Dvorsky is ranked higher only because he is a center. I think part of it is he is less risky and has a higher floor and is just a good player in his own right.

Have people seen what this kid has done for Slovakia the last 2 years? He’s been nothing short of phenomenal. He rises his game when they play the big countries too.

You don't think if Benson was a 6'1 center he would be ranked ahead of Dvorsky? I'm not saying Dvorsky is bad or anything but him being a 6'1 center definitely helps his rank. If you think Dvorsky would be ahead of Benson regardless of size and position, then yeah, I can see why you'd disagree, and that's fine.

 

[Frk It]

You don't think if Benson was a 6'1 center he would be ranked of Dvorsky? I'm not saying Dvorsky is bad or anything but him being a 6'1 center definitely helps his rank. If you think Dvorsky would be ahead of Benson regardless of size and position, then yeah, I can see why you'd disagree, and that's fine.

I mean if your aunt had balls she’d be your uncle. You can’t make Benson what he’s not.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

You don't think if Benson was a 6'1 center he would be ranked of Dvorsky? I'm not saying Dvorsky is bad or anything but him being a 6'1 center definitely helps his rank. If you think Dvorsky would be ahead of Benson regardless of size and position, then yeah, I can see why you'd disagree, and that's fine.

bingo man. if benson is gone i’d consider dvorsky but to me the skill level is not close what do ever

 

[HoweFan]

If you had to make a choice between Edstrom and Wahlberg who would you take?

 

[Realgud]

Well it would be unfair to talk as much about Dvorsky and not share my thoughts on him, positives and negatives:

What I like:
- What I like the most about him is something you can't really teach and that is knowing where to put the puck (shooting or passing) to give it the best chance of going into the net. He really has an eye for throwing the puck at the right place when there are players parked in front of the net and seems to always find a way to capitalize on these opportunities. I find that really impressive and Michkov is pretty similar in that regard. Put simply, he has a great shot.
- His hands in transition when he tries to cut through traffic. Sometimes his hands are very quick and his puck handling is flawless. It's not always the case though, but the potential is there.
- His positioning offensively and defensively is excellent. He understands the game very well.
- He's young and just turned 18. That's promising.

Things I don't like as much:
- He just goes through the motions sometimes but most of it seems calculated and as a result he's quite patient and he gets rewarded for it, but it doesn't always work in his favor and often he gets burned or loses the puck because of that lack of urgency in his game. He seems to struggle to process the game quickly enough, especially at higher levels (against pros).
- His game is too easy to read and as a result he turns the puck often when the intensity ramps up. He will get a bit lost with the puck, get pinned to the board and lose the puck. I think this can definitely improve with time but I wonder if it's tied with his slower processing speed. Time will tell.

If you had to make a choice between Edstrom and Wahlberg who would you take?

Wahlberg personally, but it's close. I think Edstrom has more chance to stick at center but I prefer the offensive upside of Wahlberg.

 

[RabidBadger]

Absolutely no way dvorsky would have outscored benson in the whl.
not even .4 ppg in the allsvenkan (.37) and you think he’d put up over 1.6ppg in the whl?

Probably. I remember a scrub named Sam Lofquist putting up 0.1 ppg in 2 years at Minnesota and magically bumping up to 0.6+ ppg in 2 years of major junior. I don't see why a 1st round talent like Dvorsky wouldn't hit the mark you set.