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2023 Draft Discussion | Page 138 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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2023 Draft Discussion

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I'm watching various scouting clips, including the most recent EP one and the only time I see him below the red line is winding up on the breakout. EP even flagged his tendency to prematurely fly the zone. Maybe it's not being highlighted, but you'd think they'd highlight things beyond offense if there was anything to show. The clips for other players go into more detail for other parts of the rink.
I know and you're not wrong, but there's a difference between involvement and actual defensive skills/reads. Michkov is excellent defensively when he gets involved. Does he cheat for offense when he should be defending a little bit too much? Sure, but the skills and intelligence on defense are there. It's not like he can't defend. Carlsson and Fantilli both have the size/reach that should allow them to defend better (especially as centers), but right now, Michkov reads and cuts plays better than either in a better league (ok maybe not the SHL).

I'm not blaming you for thinking like that though as it seems to be the consensus opinion on him but as someone who has watched him 5+ times in the KHL and 2 more in the MHL playoffs, it's his decision-making with the puck that ultimately let me down this year, not his defensive play. He HAD to defend in the KHL, his team was so bad lol, and he did very well.

Anyway, that was just in answer to the "There is more to ability than offense" which I think Michkov definitely fits. I think he could be a very good 2-way player if he wanted or if it's coached into him like Ovechkin with Trotz. I think both Carlsson and Fantilli are overrated in their defensive abilities, but are certainly not bad and do get involved which is better on the eye test.

It's funny that this narrative is never brought up when talking about Bedard though, not sure why. Bedard is a center and his defensive involvement is minimal and his defensive skills have been hard to judge for me as a result. I don't understand why this criticism that is only brought up when talking about Michkov (again, not targeting you in particular, just the general opinion).
 
I know and you're not wrong, but there's a difference between involvement and actual defensive skills/reads. Michkov is excellent defensively when he gets involved. Does he cheat for offense when he should be defending a little bit too much? Sure, but the skills and intelligence on defense are there. It's not like he can't defend. Carlsson and Fantilli both have the size/reach that should allow them to defend better (especially as centers), but right now, Michkov reads and cuts plays better than either in a better league (ok maybe not the SHL).

I'm not blaming you for thinking like that though as it seems to be the consensus opinion on him but as someone who has watched him 5+ times in the KHL and 2 more in the MHL playoffs, it's his decision-making with the puck that ultimately let me down this year, not his defensive play. He HAD to defend in the KHL, his team was so bad lol, and he did very well.

Anyway, that was just in answer to the "There is more to ability than offense" which I think Michkov definitely fits. I think he could be a very good 2-way player if he wanted or if it's coached into him like Ovechkin with Trotz. I think both Carlsson and Fantilli are overrated in their defensive abilities, but are certainly not bad and do get involved which is better on the eye test.

It's funny that this narrative is never brought up when talking about Bedard though, not sure why. Bedard is a center and his defensive involvement is minimal and his defensive skills have been hard to judge for me as a result. I don't understand why this criticism that is only brought up when talking about Michkov (again, not targeting you in particular, just the general opinion).
I think a healthy portion of the Michkov criticism is subconscious frustrations in having to wait for him. People know Bedard is available day 1, so it's easier to be optimistic. But also, because of the wait these are things an NHL team can't work with him on for three years. Not sure how involved his KHL team/coaches will allow the NHL side to get.
 
I think a healthy portion of the Michkov criticism is subconscious frustrations in having to wait for him. People know Bedard is available day 1, so it's easier to be optimistic.
Absolutely fair point lol
 
I think a healthy portion of the Michkov criticism is subconscious frustrations in having to wait for him. People know Bedard is available day 1, so it's easier to be optimistic. But also, because of the wait these are things an NHL team can't work with him on for three years. Not sure how involved his KHL team/coaches will allow the NHL side to get.
We just need to get Michkov traded to the Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod so that Larionov can coach him for the next few years.
 
But then I see Dvorsky as an extremely capable 2C, but wouldn't that push Kasper down if he projects like we think he will? FUC*. lmao
There is no downside in that. Larkin - Kasper - Dvorsky center core would be massive swing towards cup contending, when Kasper and Dvorsky are ready. My ideal hockey team, 3 match up monster in the middle and massive & mobile defense behind them. Depth wins championships.
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Dvorsky to Oskarshamn, now he is going to play in SHL. As long as the Caps don't steal him, Dvorsky is coming to Detroit.
 
I am really liking this kid now. He seems as much a Draper pick as a Hakan pick. Loves to hang around the net, good skater, tenacious on D and plays fearless hockey. His shot wouldn't break a wet paper bag but he's a low risk/medium reward pick. An easy choice with one of our 2nds.


 
I'm not sure quite what to do here. Detroit has half a dozen players that I'd be completely OK with taking at 9, and should have several great choices still available at 17.

Without the constant threat of pessimism and panic, just how am I supposed to feel? Dare I say... HAPPY?!?
 
There is no downside in that. Larkin - Kasper - Dvorsky center core would be massive swing towards cup contending, when Kasper and Dvorsky are ready. My ideal hockey team, 3 match up monster in the middle and massive & mobile defense behind them. Depth wins championships.
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Dvorsky to Oskarshamn, now he is going to play in SHL. As long as the Caps don't steal him, Dvorsky is coming to Detroit.

I'm with you there. Having a deep center Corp would be a nice change.

I am really liking this kid now. He seems as much a Draper pick as a Hakan pick. Loves to hang around the net, good skater, tenacious on D and plays fearless hockey. His shot wouldn't break a wet paper bag but he's a low risk/medium reward pick. An easy choice with one of our 2nds.



He could be the ideal 3rd liner. Really good at faceoffs too.
 
Bob's final rankings are out:
Intrigue and excitement in the Year of Connor Bedard at the NHL Draft | TSN

Top 20 goes as follows:
1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Smith
5. Michkov
6. Leonard
7. Dvorsky
8. Reinbacher
9. Benson
10. Perreault
11. Wood
12. Barlow
13. Moore
14. Sandin Pellikka
15. Yager
16. Danielsson
17. Honzek
18. Stenberg
19. Simashev
20. Willander

Bobby Mack putting Reinbacher in the top 10 makes me feel slightly vindicated after ranting at you guys all season about how that kid is realgud.

Interesting to see Stennberg back in the top 20 after a weird j20 season that was book-ended by a terrific Hlinka and even better U18. The EP draft guide compared him to Tatar tot. Not a bad top 6er there if that's what he turns into.
 
He could be the ideal 3rd liner. Really good at faceoffs too.

I'm doing more reading on him and scouts love his attention to detail and how he knows where everyone is all the time. He draws a lot of comparisons to Mikael Backlund who I always thought of as a very solid defensive center for a long time. OFM probably takes 4 years to become an NHLer but good skating, great motor and high intelligence sounds like a solid pickup.

I hope he makes it to day 2, and if there's worries he won't I would trade 2 of our 2nds to get him in the 1st.
 
If Bob's list would happen, Detroit picks.
#9 Zach Benson(W)
#17 Samuel Honzek(W)
#41 Carson Rehkopf(W)
#42 Koehn Ziemmer(W)
#43 Jakub Dvorak(D)
#73 Carey Terrance(C)

I would pick
#9 Nate Danielson
#17 Tom Willander
#41 Jayden Perron
#42 Felix Nilsson
#43 Carson Rehkopf
#73 Damian Clara
 
Problem with this is, 17 would likely go in that DeBrincat trade.
I've said it in other places, but I don't think Debrincat get's the return people are assuming he will.

Pretty confident it will be in the realm of 2023 2nd + Zadina + late round pick (5-7th) in whatever year.

You can replace zadina with someone else that is in the same spot as him, maybe veleno I guess? Then we wouldn't have a 4C, so we would have to sign another C for that.

I think Cristall or Heidt would be a great player for us to take a swing on in the second round with that cluster or picks. Sounds like they have slid out of the first round.
Eh, you have more knowledge than me in this area, so I'll bend the knee to what you say on Cristall, I just don't see it. But the beauty of time is, at some point we will know.
 
Some second round SHL guys I really like:

Felix Nilsson
Anton Wahlberg
Noel Nordh
Molgaard
Axel Landan RHD (very underrated)
Felix Unger Sorum (also underrated)
 
That`s for you guys. I made it for my russian detroit buddies. May be you will find it interesting for you too.


I wasn`t writer here, because my lenguage isn`t as good as people can ask. But I like to make a dive in the draft and I think I did it pretty well. I said way before the previous draft, that Gauthier is top-5 pick, Slaf will be number one, that Edvinsson is top talent, Sanderson is top4-5(waited to be picked by Detroit), ranked Stuzle higher than Byfield, Quinn over Holtz. Etc. I made it mostly on the devils theard before because there were a lot of attention to draft in previous years and in home segment of internet.

Now my detroit buddies asked me who they should pick by their 9th pick between Moore and Dvorsky and who is mister Moore potentially, is he a potential Dylan Larkin 2.0? And I made breakdown of one game for him to explain what I`m thinking about him.

- game where he is playing with Leonard on the line

View attachment 720020View attachment 720035
Start of the game, Moore is starting to forecheck opponent. He is seccessfull. But the problem is he open a lot of space in the center zone, he is starting to forecheck in a long distance away from the puck, opoonent could make a pass in the center zone and the next forward could make next pass to the board and they could have good opportunity for break away. At least they screwed. But it was not the great decision from Moore to start to forecheck in this position.

0-24 - 0-40 good shift, a lot of movement, hard work.
View attachment 720022
in the moment 0-30 he could turn around, make a pass on the blue line and than defenseman could cycle the puck to the open partner. Moore prefered to shoot. Anyway he has good shot and there were a good distance for it.

0-56 , he decided to make a shot, his partner on the net could make a rebound, goalie saw the moment. View attachment 720024
He should continue to cycling the puck.

View attachment 720026
1-48 - 1-50. Now we can see who is playing center role in this line in the real. Leonard is driveng the net, using stickhandling and making good pass with nmanipulating of defenseman.

View attachment 720027
2-12 I have a question to Moore why he made so deep dive into the zone when there were serious opportunity to make a breakaway for opponents, anyway it was a bad play by his partner on the boards, I can understand the gamble of Moore because he had a lot of free space.

View attachment 720031
2-29. Stupid moment. Moore and his partner should change the zone, but Moore 1) prefer to continue the forecheck 2) he followed the opponent, but he should to cut the space and start to skate right into the net. After that they got scoring moment on their net

View attachment 720034
2-58 - 2-59 again he is starting to help too soon. His partner had a puck and should make a backhand pass into the center space. They losted the puck.

3-04 great forecheck

Now we talking about IQ. 4-00
View attachment 720036View attachment 720037
He protected the puck and found his partner and made a smart cross ice pass in the open coridor for a shot. It`s not a bad move, it`s a good move, even if the pass wasn`t 100% clean and in the right direction.
But the opponents, who protect USNTDP player behinad the net, started to attack Moore. And Moore could easily make a pass behind the net, where his partner had an opportunity to make open pass for two USNTDP players with no secure.
View attachment 720039

4-45 - 4-50 great forecheck. 5-10 great baclcheck. They could easily have breakaway moment 3 on 2, but Moore saved the day. 5-15 great body work.

5-26 he and his partners made bad decisions, I see both tried to make a change, both made bad decisions.
And after that we see great PK shift.

8-33 we see a great moment where smart Leonard waiting and making a pass to full speed Moore who is creating scoring chance by his feet.
For this moment we can see a lot of backchecks, forecheck, speed, good 200 foot game.

8-40 - he made wrong decision. need to make a pass to partner on the board
9-47 - lack of puck skill and than - 9-53 he is compensate it by hard work and takeaway
11-40 11-44 we see the same situation in reverse - good forecheck but lost the puck because of puck skills
12-15 12-30 - lack of puck skills and creativity.
12-48 - good idea to make a pass, but again - hand-eye coordination
13-00 finally great play . made a pause and gave a good pass on the shot
13-05 13-09 - again puck skills
13-23 13-25 again if he could have better puck skills. great shot on rebound.
15-00 15-05 okay way to drive the play but it could be better with more control

Overall I like his game, he is forechecking beast, I don`t see an opportunity for bust(only injuries). He should be great third line player at least. And I think he will be great complimentary top-6 player, but I`m not finding a mind\iq to drive the play and create really good scoring opportunities. He isn`t driving the net a lot because his lack of puck skills turn him away. And I think he isn`t felling the pace of offense and can`t find the best opportunity to make situation more dangerous.
I don`t think that he is good answer for a team who is trying to find drive\playmaking force for top-6 line. I believe he could be great pick as complimentary forechecking player for hard minutes and helping your leader to save the puck in offensive zone or clean mistakes.

Sorry for bad english, hope you have a fun.
 
It's funny that this narrative is never brought up when talking about Bedard though, not sure why. Bedard is a center and his defensive involvement is minimal and his defensive skills have been hard to judge for me as a result. I don't understand why this criticism that is only brought up when talking about Michkov (again, not targeting you in particular, just the general opinion).
Well that is because bedard is god, duhhh.

I watched edmonton vs vegas a lot in the playoffs and I was quite disappointed in McDavid and his defense. He really seemed to give up on the play an awful lot, especially when he has the speed and ability to get back in the forecheck on 2-on-1's or the other possibilities. Everyone says bedard is the next mcdavid, so hopefully bedard learns the defensive side, as well. (i'm just going off of what you are saying about bedard's defensive skills, I haven't see much of it through his highlights, so I wouldn't know)
 
I'm not sure quite what to do here. Detroit has half a dozen players that I'd be completely OK with taking at 9, and should have several great choices still available at 17.

Without the constant threat of pessimism and panic, just how am I supposed to feel? Dare I say... HAPPY?!?
Happy as long as it is one of Dvorsky, Benson, Leonard, or Reinbacher.

I have been teetering the last week or two between Dvorsky and Benson. I was all in on Dvorsky, but now I am leaning more towards benson, but keep flip flopping. I would most likely choose Leonard over both, but I don't think he get's past Arizona or Philly tbh. Reinbacher only because he is considered the best D in the draft (RHD at that) and we need that in the pipeline.

Would much rather go with the offensive center/wingers at 9. But can understand Rainbacher if available.
 
Bobby Mack putting Reinbacher in the top 10 makes me feel slightly vindicated after ranting at you guys all season about how that kid is realgud.

Interesting to see Stennberg back in the top 20 after a weird j20 season that was book-ended by a terrific Hlinka and even better U18. The EP draft guide compared him to Tatar tot. Not a bad top 6er there if that's what he turns into.
same with perrault at 10 for me.
 
I am really liking this kid now. He seems as much a Draper pick as a Hakan pick. Loves to hang around the net, good skater, tenacious on D and plays fearless hockey. His shot wouldn't break a wet paper bag but he's a low risk/medium reward pick. An easy choice with one of our 2nds.



Id trade up for him, late first
 
Here's my favorite 2nd round Finns:

Jesse Kiiskinen
Rasmus Kumpulainen
Kasper Halttunen
Jesse Nurmi
Tuomas Uronen

Favorite 2nd Round North Americans:
Nico Myatovic
Carson Rehkopf
Andrew Gibson
Mathieu Cataford
Coulson Pitre
Kalan Lind
 
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