2023 Draft Discussion

[lilidk]

Here's some Dvorsky highlights.



The things I like about him; heavy on the puck, strong protection skills, great shot, and very solid playmaking from his off-wing.
Concerns: Is too stationary in the offensive zone. Never seems to be hustling. Skating is pretty average. I still think he's a winger in the NHL.

A minor concern I have is that he didn't score top 25 in anything at the combine, which would make him the ONLY player ranked in the top 10 to not be top 25 in any testing category. That wouldn't bother me too much, but there were so many other top prospects from Sweden that scored higher.

Another Zadina?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Here's some Dvorsky highlights.



The things I like about him; heavy on the puck, strong protection skills, great shot, and very solid playmaking from his off-wing.
Concerns: Is too stationary in the offensive zone. Never seems to be hustling. Skating is pretty average. I still think he's a winger in the NHL.

A minor concern I have is that he didn't score top 25 in anything at the combine, which would make him the ONLY player ranked in the top 10 to not be top 25 in any testing category. That wouldn't bother me too much, but there were so many other top prospects from Sweden that scored higher.

i don’t see the top line upside with dvorsky. Think he’s super safe high floor guy.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Another Zadina?

I wouldn't go that far. Dvorsky does a better job of creating offense around the net and definitely has a better shot. But the skating and not moving his feet enough are bigger concerns for me.

 

[lilidk]

I wouldn't go that far. Dvorsky does a better job of creating offense around the net and definitely has a better shot. But the skating and not moving his feet enough are bigger concerns for me.

Zadina was excellent shooter before we got him. I didn't know Dvorsky did poorly at combine

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Zadina was excellent shooter before we got him. I didn't know Dvorsky did poorly at combine

Zadina was an excellent shooter for the QMJHL but if you look back at his draft year he's taking a lot of long shots. I vaguely recall a comment from Blashill about how Zadina needs to learn to score from closer to the net in the NHL.

 

[Frk It]

Got my copy of The Black Book and they are doing a pretty good job of selling me on Honzek.

Don't think he is going to be a center, but they gave him a 8/9 in skating and were really complimentary of his skating for a guy who is 6'3". They were also complimentary on his skill level and gave him a 7/9 in skill.

Could be a potential steal where he might have got ranked higher if he doesn't get injured.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Got my copy of The Black Book and they are doing a pretty good job of selling me on Honzek.

Don't think he is going to be a center, but they gave him a 8/9 in skating and were really complimentary of his skating for a guy who is 6'3". They were also complimentary on his skill level and gave him a 7/9 in skill.

Could be a potential steal where he might have got ranked higher if he doesn't get injured.

I think the Black Book has lost the plot this year as well.

 

[Frk It]

I think the Black Book has lost the plot this year as well.

Sorry bud but I pay to hear their opinion and not yours.

I do have some disagreements with them on certain things. Do think some of their takes and quotes are interesting with this draft though and enjoying diving into this right now.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I don’t know how legit the rumors are, but Vancouver’s 11OA is allegedly available in a cap-dumping deal. Id take on Myers and Boeser @ ~$5M in order to get the 11th, even if we’re throwing in one of our 40s. But having 9, 11, and 17 would be a boon to our prospect pool.

Would rather take on Garland who they are also trying to unload.

 

[jaster]

Predicting narratives....

If Detroit does in fact pick at 9 and 17, I'm interested to see how strong the narrative is that whoever we pick at 9 would have been available at 17. Like, our first pick is guaranteed to be bad to X% of fans simply because of that factor. "Wasted pick! We coulda got him at 17!"

 

[Reddwit]

Here's some Dvorsky highlights.



The things I like about him; heavy on the puck, strong protection skills, great shot, and very solid playmaking from his off-wing.
Concerns: Is too stationary in the offensive zone. Never seems to be hustling. Skating is pretty average. I still think he's a winger in the NHL.

A minor concern I have is that he didn't score top 25 in anything at the combine, which would make him the ONLY player ranked in the top 10 to not be top 25 in any testing category. That wouldn't bother me too much, but there were so many other top prospects from Sweden that scored higher.

I love his puck protection skills. There have been a couple moments where he’s reminded me of Zetterberg in that regard.

As for the combine results, I go back and forth over whether I care about that. Cause on the one hand, that could spell negative things for his future form, but on the other, it means he’s getting shit done without being well conditioned. I think as long as there aren’t questions of work ethic or drive, where you can be sure that he’ll put in the effort to improve his conditioning, it’s no big deal and could lead to big improvements in his game if he puts in the effort in the gym. In Dvorsky’s case specifically, it could just be a matter of natural immaturity, being so young.

I do worry about him not moving his feet enough, like you said, cause I find that players have a hard time drastically changing their pace of play. It seems like a trait that’s more “hard-wired” than others.

Got my copy of The Black Book and they are doing a pretty good job of selling me on Honzek.

Don't think he is going to be a center, but they gave him a 8/9 in skating and were really complimentary of his skating for a guy who is 6'3". They were also complimentary on his skill level and gave him a 7/9 in skill.

Could be a potential steal where he might have got ranked higher if he doesn't get injured.

Honzek has a package that’s very similar to “Mantha on a good day.” Isn’t overtly physical but knows how to use his frame, smooth skater for a big man, can get caught watching the play but has skill to compensate and flat out take over games. I think his hockey IQ is distinctly better than Mantha’s though. I’m a big fan. Wish we had more NA data from him, I’d feel better about where to rank him.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Got my copy of The Black Book and they are doing a pretty good job of selling me on Honzek.

Don't think he is going to be a center, but they gave him a 8/9 in skating and were really complimentary of his skating for a guy who is 6'3". They were also complimentary on his skill level and gave him a 7/9 in skill.

Could be a potential steal where he might have got ranked higher if he doesn't get injured.

I wouldn't mind Honzek at 17. This draft there seems half a dozen guys I'd be happy with at both of our first round picks.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Sorry bud but I pay to hear their opinion and not yours.

I do have some disagreements with them on certain things. Do think some of their takes and quotes are interesting with this draft though and enjoying diving into this right now.

 

[Realgud]

I've been high on Honzek all year. I compare him to a more consistently engaged Mantha and with better playmaking. But like Mantha, I think he doesn't read the play off the puck well enough to get the puck as often as you'd like, but put him on the wing of a center who can get him the puck (Larkin?) and he's gonna deal some damage. Vancouver wasn't great this year so it seems like he was chasing the puck most of the time.

 

[lilidk]

Did Corey Pronman have his final mock draft

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Sorry bud but I pay to hear their opinion and not yours.

I do have some disagreements with them on certain things. Do think some of their takes and quotes are interesting with this draft though and enjoying diving into this right now.

I should start charging you for the lessons I'm giving.

This year's black book seemed off tone from last year. I enjoy their work and if I have an opinion of a player that's far different than the book I'll try and look back, check my biases and see if I missed something. Some of their takes this year, like Honzek, have me scratching my head.

 

[Frk It]

I should start charging you for the lessons I'm giving.

This year's black book seemed off tone from last year. I enjoy their work and if I have an opinion of a player that's far different than the book I'll try and look back, check my biases and see if I missed something. Some of their takes this year, like Honzek, have me scratching my head.

I mean at least they don’t tell me how bad a player is all year then still rank him top 10 like someone I know….

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I mean at least they don’t tell me how bad a player is all year then still rank him top 10 like someone I know….

I never said Will Smith is bad. I said he's 10 ply soft and doesn't hustle enough. Still super skilled.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I never said Will Smith is bad. I said he's 10 ply soft and doesn't hustle enough. Still super skilled.

just difference is philosophy. You like your prospects more safe with good bones in skating motor and defensive awareness. I and others may like more skill, with high upside with a higher bust chance

 

[Vector Cereal]

I've been high on Honzek all year. I compare him to a more consistently engaged Mantha and with better playmaking. But like Mantha, I think he doesn't read the play off the puck well enough to get the puck as often as you'd like, but put him on the wing of a center who can get him the puck (Larkin?) and he's gonna deal some damage. Vancouver wasn't great this year so it seems like he was chasing the puck most of the time.

Can you link any videos that sold you on him? I’m low on Honzek but always make one good effort to change my mind on a guy before locking him in the rankings

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

just difference is philosophy. You like your prospects more safe with good bones in skating motor and defensive awareness. I and others may like more skill, with high upside with a higher bust chance

I'll agree with that take. I like skill, but when it's not paired with a strong work ethic then like you said it means a higher bust probability in a prospect. Aside from Dan Cleary, I can't think of many prospects with consistency/motor/work ethic issues that ever turned it around completely.

A prospect's defense doesn't have to be elite, but they should be willing to put in the effort. It's a team game and shows they're willing to make some sacrifices for team success. Guys that are openly lazy in this regard make me point to my first point about work ethic or IQ.

I hold IQ as the most important. We've seen several players that are dumber than a box of rocks get points because they're skilled. But as the skills diminish their IQ can't compensate. Tyler Seguin and Taylor Hall are good examples of this. While the smartest players are able to be productive even in their old age like Pavelski.

 

[Realgud]

Can you link any videos that sold you on him? I’m low on Honzek but always make one good effort to change my mind on a guy before locking him in the rankings

Hmmm a bit hard to do as I have my own recordings of the games that I have personally seen, and I didn't really search on youtube either, but I invite you to do so and you might find something you like. A lot of amateur scouting comes down to luck too, because you're not watching each prospect 15+ times (maybe if it's your only hobby), I might have just been lucky and seen the best out of Honzek lol, but yeah he has all the tools (size, skating, shot, passing, hands...). I wonder how much of that package he'll be able to effectively transfer to the next level but I'm a big believer.

 

[ZDH]

Gonna dive in to the black book this weekend. Ya'll had me on Honzek until the Mantha comparisons.

 

[Frk It]

I never said Will Smith is bad. I said he's 10 ply soft and doesn't hustle enough. Still super skilled.

# of negative comments on Smith this season: 888
# or positive comments on Smith this season: 2

Final rank: 10

Get your copy of the Ogee scoring guide, here!

(Just kidding bud, lol)

 

[Realgud]

Gonna dive in to the black book this weekend. Ya'll had me on Honzek until the Mantha comparisons.

You do remember how good Mantha at his best is, right?