Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

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Oh the irony.



Also, the issue with having 3 #1D on a team is that its completely unnecessary to win a cup, and you end up spending so much money on those 3 Dmen, that you're left with very little money to spend elsewhere in the lineup.

Winning in hockey is about having a balanced lineup. Having 3 #1D and paying all 3 of them #1D money, means you've got an extremely unbalanced roster. We're not even paying 3 Dmen #1D money right now and our roster is already incredibly unbalanced towards the Defense. Now imagine all 3 of Makar/Byram/Toews are making a combined $27M instead of the $16M they're making now.


Goodbye Mikko, goodbye RyJo! Goodbye any semblance of a forward group.

Mackinnon- 12.6
Rantanen- 12.5
Nichushkin- 6.25
Lehkonen- 4.5
Colton- 4
Wood- 2.5

Makar- 9
Toews- 8.75
Byram- 8.5
Manson- 4.5

Georgiev- 5.5

All of our core guys locked up for let's say +/- 78 million.

78 million out of a 92 mil cap. We'd still have 14 million left.

It could definitely happen.

*Trade Girard for a 2C

Lehkonen- Mackinnon- 2M
Nichushkin- 4M- Rantanen
Wood- Colton- 2M
1M- 1M- 1M

Toews - Makar
Byram - Manson
1M - 1M

Georgiev
Backup 1M
 
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I don't see how EP is even an option.

Even without him, if they keep Toews, it's going to be tough to keep all three of Toews, Mikko, and Byram in two years when the latter two are up for new deals, if they want to maintain some depth on wing.

If you add EP and re-sign Toews, now you could lose both Mikko and Byram. Moving out Val alone probably isn't enough to keep one of them. You're looking at losing a lot of your team just to make a luxury addition of EP at 2C.

IMO by far the best strategy is to keep going with $4-6M 2C's and let Toews walk, so you can keep Mikko and Bo who will surpass Toews soon, and has a higher ceiling.

Then as the cap rises you can use that extra cash to improve the rest of the roster like the bottom six, 2C, or 1G from year to year depending on your needs. That's the only way to have both high end star talent and some depth.
Surely if Landy turns out no go and will have to retire, which i guess is 50:50 at this point, EP should be legit target, if he decides not to re-sign with Canucks. Just read on the trade boards his decision hangs on how Canucks gonna fare this season.
 
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Sample size? How much time did they spend on the ice together relative to other combos?
Not a particularly large one, almost 73 minutes over 26 games where as Byram had almost 300 min with Girard over 42 games. I thought they looked good together when they were actually paired together though. I guess some of the advanced stats agree and some don’t.
 
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According to what statistics exactly?



Byram - Makar were below 50% expected goals last year, and had some of the highest expected goals against per 60 of all Avs pairings last year.

Although, if you really look at it, you can see the problem here was Byram. Not one single pairing that he was on had a positive expected goals rate. He was dragging down every partner he played with.
I was just referencing the corsi % stats but didn’t think to check out expected goals. I just remember last season someone pointing out Cale and Byram’s corsi was crazy at one point so that’s why I checked that out first.

I’ll also admit by looking at several different pairings that if you are paired with Cale your advanced stats will be brought up by quite a bit for the most part.
 
Surely if Landy turns out no go and will have to retire, which i guess is 50:50 at this point, EP should be legit target, if he decides not to re-sign with Canucks. Just read on the trade boards his decision hangs on how Canucks gonna fare this season.
Landeskog will not retire. He may never play again, but he won't retire.

The issue obviously is that if he can play at some capacity, but will top as a 4th liner, then we are in trouble. Then it would be up to the management to quietly ask him to just stay in the LTIR. Which would obviously be difficult for the player who still wants to be on the ice contributing.
 
Advanced stats have come a long ways... Corsi is very primitive and misleading at this point. Plenty of players out there that have good Corsi numbers, but poor overall numbers.

For all the talk of Byram being a legit #1D, we really need to see him put it all together. 10 years ago, you could reasonably say a 40 point guy who played great defense was a #1. Today, that threshold has to be closer to 50 points with scoring being up as much as it is, especially for defensemen. Then those guys who are at that 50 point level or a touch below, they have to be elite defensively. We have not seen Byram be able to pull off both consistently.

On offense, we can see him activate and create chances. When he's trying to push offensively, he clearly has the ability to drive some chances... and you'll see the production follow. He can have a 10-15 game stretch where he is near PPG. The problem becomes that he is very much a trade chances guy when he's like this. The numbers actually state to a worse extent than Barrie was in his prime (IE not ideal). Part of that is how he creates offense. He's not the most versatile in his attack. This will sound harsher than I mean it, but compared to other high end D... he's not a great outlet passer nor is he a high end rusher of the puck. He's somewhere between above average and good in those areas. So it isn't a weakness, he's just not going to be able to pile up points like Hughes does in those areas. Where Byram's offense comes from is activation. Using his skating ability to be another option off the rush. Either the 3rd guy in on a 2 on 1 or 2 on 2.... or as the 4th forward so to speak. This creates mismatches and ability to score on the counterattack. His other activation is taking risks in the offensive zone. He will read and go to soft spots to get quick shots or one touch passes. Those are his main two weapons offensively. They will produce, they'll just be a bit erratic in ups and downs. Also this activation provides counter attack possibilities, which teams really took advantage of last season. You could clearly see that once they broke up the play, they could practically get a free zone entry... and either trade chances off rushes or pin the Avs after an entry.

Which brings us to defense. I've said for a long time that Byram has elite 1v1 defensive skill set. His size, skating, stick, physicality, etc... it is all tailor made to be an elite 1v1 defender. When he is keyed in and focused on that, he is incredibly good that way. He's not always keyed in and focused on it. When in position (the activation thing), he's fantastic at zone entry denials. He's also fantastic at containing a guy within the zone when he's covering the puck. Where Byram has lapses is within space. He loses his coverage pretty quickly. He chases the puck when it is near. When he retrieves the puck and is collapsed upon, his default is skate with the puck that frequently causes a turnover or puck battle or put it behind the net for his partner. This all leads to extended zone time pressure. Two types of teams give him absolute fits... the heavy forecheck that eliminate space. Those teams also tend to be heavy in the zone and cycle the puck decently. Then the teams that have a good amount of skill and rely on passing and movement in the offensive zone. I'm not sure he will ever fully get past those two issues. The heavy teams specifically will be hard to overcome. Practically you need a bigger cycle buster to work with him, but one who doesn't handle the puck like a hot potato (Manson in his prime would have been absolutely perfect... or Tanev in his prime). The space teams can be mitigated staying more engaged... at this point it is hard to see that fully going away (tends to be a sticky issue).

What I personally think should happen with Byram is having the reigns pulled back on his activating. Really key him in as an elite 1v1 guy. Tone down the tradeoff chances and stay in better positioning to break up plays off the rush or quickly 1v1 in the defensive zone. This will lead to less extended time in his own end and less reliance on his partner moving the puck quickly. As the Avs have started to do, play more man defense with him and have him attack defensively instead of staying stagnate. Tone down the activation and make it smarter... IE don't join as a 4th guy on a 3v3, sometimes even a 3v2. Don't activate down from the point on the backdoor nearly every time giving up an easy exit for a team. Stay higher in the zone. Attack more in the neutral zone and on the blue line. Hold back the attack at all costs mentality. When he has the games where he does that, you see his defensive numbers and impact massively improve to the point where I'd comfortably say they are high end. His offense takes a hit though. He doesn't produce like a 45 point player... more like a 30-35 point guy, but the GF% tilts rather dramatically.

I'd rather have the less flashy and less points, but very solid defensive guy than a trade chances guy who puts up 45-50 points. More Ryan McDonagh and less Keith Yandle. I know it isn't popular to pull him (or any player back), but it is smarter hockey at this level. He isn't a Makar type of guy, nor does he need to be.
 
The best hockey I’ve seen Byram play is at the WJC and in the Stanley Cup final against Tampa. He’s a big time player who shows up in big time moments. His competitiveness is something that can’t be taught.

I do agree he needs to be better at defending in space and not losing his man when his pairing is getting cycled on. The luxury we have with him is that we have Cale Makar producing more than enough offense from the back end to where we don’t need Byram to be a top offensive defenseman for us.

This year is a big year for him. He needs to stay healthy first and foremost, and then hopefully we can see some defensive improvement. Whether or not he can do both of these things will go a long way in determining the future of our blueline.
 
Personally I don't give a shit about what Byram has accomplished so far in the NHL. He simply missed too many games in the last 3 years, which undoubtedly delayed his normal development curve, to be able to tell what he can or can't do at the NHL level.

Byram is a big unknown, in games played he's basically entering his sophomore season.
 
Personally I don't give a shit about what Byram has accomplished so far in the NHL. He simply missed too many games in the last 3 years, which undoubtedly delayed his normal development curve, to be able to tell what he can or can't do at the NHL level.

Byram is a big unknown, in games played he's basically entering his sophomore season.
Is the he's only played 90/100/150/200 games the new he's only 22/23/24/25/26? :sarcasm:

The best hockey I’ve seen Byram play is at the WJC and in the Stanley Cup final against Tampa. He’s a big time player who shows up in big time moments. His competitiveness is something that can’t be taught.

I do agree he needs to be better at defending in space and not losing his man when his pairing is getting cycled on. The luxury we have with him is that we have Cale Makar producing more than enough offense from the back end to where we don’t need Byram to be a top offensive defenseman for us.

This year is a big year for him. He needs to stay healthy first and foremost, and then hopefully we can see some defensive improvement. Whether or not he can do both of these things will go a long way in determining the future of our blueline.
I don't think it is a coincidence that those are the times he's struck the best balance of attacking/defending. He wasn't all out offense/activation and really keyed in on his defense. I strongly believe that is his best version. It may not lead to 60 point seasons, but I think it could lead to a high end shutdown guy who can still provide 35 points, maybe 40-45 if NHL scoring stays up or increases more.
 
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What if the other team thinks that Toews is that true 1st liner Dman that they desperately need and is only one like him available? They might pay some really good assets for such a player. Demands would probably be high for Colorado. Maybe like two 1st rounders (and no, not the late or mid late 1st rounders) and good prospect I would assume.

For a pending ufa? Maybe if there was an extension in place but then the avs are missing a huge piece for a playoff run.
 
For a pending ufa? Maybe if there was an extension in place but then the avs are missing a huge piece for a playoff run.

I could see 2 late firsts and a prospect to a contending team, but for the reason you stated, it won't happen. Toews is here for the season. I'd say odds are much higher he is re-signed. Best bets for that are in camp, near the deadline or nearing UFA. With how the Avs operate I'd personally expect camp or near UFA. The only trading of Toews would be his UFA rights in June or as a sign and trade for a team to get the 8th year (given his age I'd doubt many would go for that). Those don't typically bring in all that much for assets. Toews will be in demand though... so a 2nd or 3rd would be the most likely (2nd would be my guess).
 
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The best hockey I’ve seen Byram play is at the WJC and in the Stanley Cup final against Tampa. He’s a big time player who shows up in big time moments. His competitiveness is something that can’t be taught.

I do agree he needs to be better at defending in space and not losing his man when his pairing is getting cycled on. The luxury we have with him is that we have Cale Makar producing more than enough offense from the back end to where we don’t need Byram to be a top offensive defenseman for us.

This year is a big year for him. He needs to stay healthy first and foremost, and then hopefully we can see some defensive improvement. Whether or not he can do both of these things will go a long way in determining the future of our blueline.
I think health is the biggest thing for Byram. He's got to figure out a way to play more than 42 games. He's completely worthless sitting in the press box eating nachos.

He needs to play a full year or at least close to it, for us to get a sense of the player he is.

Hate to say it but the whole team minus a few guys need to figure out how to stay healthy. We are constantly fighting massive injury problems. Then it's a cascade effect because guys are out of position playing too many minutes then they get hurt as well. It's always an uphill battle.

I really hope everyone evaluated their offseason training programs in an effort to be on the ice more consistently.
 
Manson definitely needs to be moved after his NMC is up after this year. He takes priority over Girard that’s for sure. Dump him back on ANA. I’m sure he wouldn’t hate going back there. Could maybe waive and accept that. They have a few LHD prospects coming in and could use a “steady vet presence” (on the IR) to mentor them.
 
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Manson won't ever be fully healthy again. His body has been failing for 5 years now... just so it goes for older, physical defensemen.
While I agree Manson may not ever play anywhere near a full season again due to injuries but just because something is uncomfortable under his uniform doesn't mean he's injured right now. He may very well have some type of monitoring device under his pads that was uncomfortable and they adjusted it.
 
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Personally I don't give a shit about what Byram has accomplished so far in the NHL. He simply missed too many games in the last 3 years, which undoubtedly delayed his normal development curve, to be able to tell what he can or can't do at the NHL level.

Byram is a big unknown, in games played he's basically entering his sophomore season.
I feel like if he can get 4/5 of a season in he’ll make overall improvements. He’s got insane talent but you also need the NHL experience to excel, particularly as a defenseman. He might blow us away if he actually gets close to two seasons of consistent play.
 
As far as next year cap space is concerned the Avs really, really need Landy to come back during this year's playoffs so he knows if he can play next season. The best case scenario is that he is able to make a decision on next season by the next draft so the Avs can plan accordingly during the offseason. Going into next year TC without knowing will really tie the FO's hands to build a competitive roster.
 
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I'm still not convinced that Manson deal was bad. When he was healthy, he was a huge difference maker. If he's one man ambulance corps again this year my tune will change, but we need a Manson type back there and he took a discount to stay with us like we needed.
 
While I agree Manson may not ever play anywhere near a full season again due to injuries just because something is uncomfortable under his uniform doesn't mean he's injured right now. He may very well have some type of monitoring devide under his pads that was uncomfortable and they adjusted it.

I don't know what is going on here. I do know that his shoulder and knee will never be fully right again. His body is breaking down like almost every physical defensemen in their 30s.

I'm still not convinced that Manson deal was bad. When he was healthy, he was a huge difference maker. If he's one man ambulance corps again this year my tune will change, but we need a Manson type back there and he took a discount to stay with us like we needed.
4.5 is roughly the market for a middle pairing physical defensemen. It was clearly a bad deal though... wrong side of the aging curve, had been regressing hard with Anaheim for years, the worst type of aging defenseman, and like all UFA contracts at or around 30, you're paying for what they have done and not what they will be. Teams sign these deals almost every summer, and almost all of them age terribly. This will be no exception.

I've been a Manson fan for years prior to the Avs getting him, I expected the Avs to make move for a guy like him, and I didn't want the Avs to re-sign him saying it would be a pretty big mistake. It is a slow motion trainwreck.
 
Hate to say it but the whole team minus a few guys need to figure out how to stay healthy. We are constantly fighting massive injury problems.
FYIW Montreal fired their whole medical staff this summer because of the ridiculous number of injuries that the team got in the last 2 seasons.

Here it's been the case for like 5 or 6 years. Basically our entire contender window. Have we changed anything at all?
 
FYIW Montreal fired their whole medical staff this summer because of the ridiculous number of injuries that the team got in the last 2 seasons.

Here it's been the case for like 5 or 6 years. Basically our entire contender window. Have we changed anything at all?
Go way longer than that. 22 year average, the Avs are 2nd highest average in the entire league only behind Vegas. In the last 22 years, the Avs have been below the midpoint just 8 times. They have been top 5, 7 times.
 
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