Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread

[shadow1]

Well...at least 5 players from the Canadian 2018 WJC team went private on Instagram at the same time. Something tells me that we're about to get some news soon. Releasing that on a Friday before the training camps start seems like the best scenario for the NHL...

Carter Hart
Tyler Steenbergen
Brett Howden
Dillon Dubé
Jonah Gadjovich

Many people are reporting that Dillon Dube and Brett Howden have had their accounts private for a long time.

Tyler Steenbergen's account is not private: https://www.instagram.com/tsteener/. The tweeter wasn't even competent enough to search for the correct Steenbergen.

This tweet is extremely misleading.

 

[redacted]

 

[UncleRisto]

Go Wild!

 

[redacted]

Go Wild!

 

[Ararana]

Meh I think there's still avenues to winning tbh. Getting an elite 2C would go a long way towards achieving that. Especially one that was also fantastic defensively to replace some of what we lost with Landy.

Problem is Avs front office haven't shown a single sign they give a damn about that position to begin with. Even Kadri was a bit of a bargain bin long shot given his issues and they just got lucky as hell he played like a 1C the year they won the cup.

I think it's all but certain they'll ride Johansen at 2C for the next two years (he probably won't be good enough) and then they face some serious contract issues and could lose even more of their core. They should have just kept Kadri if they weren't going to take replacing him seriously.

I personally think this core is probably done due to management. Maybe if they pull off one hell of a retool they'll be able to seriously compete again, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Avs9296]

My hot take is Johansen puts up more points than Naz next year.


Come at me bro.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Problem is Avs front office haven't shown a single sign they give a damn about that position to begin with. Even Kadri was a bit of a bargain bin long shot given his issues and they just got lucky as hell he played like a 1C the year they won the cup.

I think it's all but certain they'll ride Johansen at 2C for the next two years (he probably won't be good enough) and then they face some serious contract issues and could lose even more of their core. They should have just kept Kadri if they weren't going to take replacing him seriously.

I personally think this core is probably done due to management. Maybe if they pull off one hell of a retool they'll be able to seriously compete again, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah I tend to agree. They simply don't understand the importance of elite center depth.


Which is honestly baffling to me. The year they won the cup was the one year where Kadri turned into an elite 2C. Sakic won his cups as a player with ridiculously elite center depth. Every team that wins the cup ever is elite down the middle.


But for some reason this group has decided it just isn't that important. And so we probably won't win again unless they get extremely lucky with another bargain bin Center acquisition having an extremely lucky year.

 

[LOFIN]

My hot take is Johansen puts up more points than Naz next year.


Come at me bro.

That's a fairly reasonable take

 

[LOFIN]

Yeah I tend to agree. They simply don't understand the importance of elite center depth.


Which is honestly baffling to me. The year they won the cup was the one year where Kadri turned into an elite 2C. Sakic won his cups as a player with ridiculously elite center depth. Every team that wins the cup ever is elite down the middle.


But for some reason this group has decided it just isn't that important. And so we probably won't win again unless they get extremely lucky with another bargain bin Center acquisition having an extremely lucky year.

We lacked top players, not centers specifically. We had 2 slam dunk top-6 players in our roster for the majority of the Seattle series, MacKinnon and Rantanen. Nuke went MIA, he's a second line winger. Lehkonen is a middle sixer. Then we played Compher and E-Rod in the top-6.

As long as there's enough top end talent, it doesn't really matter if its on the wings or center. We have our line drivers in Rantanen and MacKinnon. Just put enough talent next to them and it'll be fine.

 

[redacted]

We lacked top players, not centers specifically. We had 2 slam dunk top-6 players in our roster for the majority of the Seattle series, MacKinnon and Rantanen. Nuke went MIA, he's a second line winger. Lehkonen is a middle sixer. Then we played Compher and E-Rod in the top-6.

As long as there's enough top end talent, it doesn't really matter if its on the wings or center. We have our line drivers in Rantanen and MacKinnon. Just put enough talent next to them and it'll be fine.

NHL history suggests otherwise.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

My hot take is Johansen puts up more points than Naz next year.


Come at me bro.

Maybe, unless Naz becomes 1C after Lindholm is traded away.

 

[LOFIN]

NHL history suggests otherwise.

Because we love to feed the narratives. Top-6 superstar players that drive the play and score points are important. Doesn't really matter if they are on the center or wing. That's my opinion.

Contract and age aside, would you take Point over Rantanen, because the former is a C? If you would, I'd think that's insane. Because Rantanen is the better player and impacts the game more, despite being a winger.

 

[redacted]

Because we love to feed the narratives. Top-6 superstar players that drive the play and score points are important. Doesn't really matter if they are on the center or wing. That's my opinion.

Contract and age aside, would you take Point over Rantanen, because the former is a C? If you would, I'd think that's insane. Because Rantanen is the better player and impacts the game more, despite being a winger.

The correlation is very strong with center quality and cup wins. Having good center depth doesn’t guarantee cups, but not having center depth is very hard to overcome. There is a lot of data supporting this. You can discount it as a narrative if you want, but the data overwhelmingly is on the side of centers.

I’d take Point over Rantanen without a single pause. Point is 95% as good offensively, much better defensively, steps up just as big in the playoffs, and is a center.

 

[LOFIN]

I’d take Point over Rantanen without a single pause. Point is 95% as good offensively, much better defensively, steps up just as big in the playoffs, and is a center.

More like 88%, if you look at the stats. And Rantanen does actually step it up more in the playoffs. Like significantly more. 1.24PPG compared to 1.0PPG.

I'll give you the defensive part. But offensively Mikko is much better, and that's not up for a debate. If you value the center part and being defensively better then that's ok. I disagree but to each his own.

 

[Ararana]

The correlation is very strong with center quality and cup wins. Having good center depth doesn’t guarantee cups, but not having center depth is very hard to overcome. There is a lot of data supporting this. You can discount it as a narrative if you want, but the data overwhelmingly is on the side of centers.

I’d take Point over Rantanen without a single pause. Point is 95% as good offensively, much better defensively, steps up just as big in the playoffs, and is a center.

You don't have to look any further than Avalanche history to prove this point, really.

Rantanen for Larkin (just as an example) would have been the type of pivot move that would have set the Avs up significantly better for another cup. Larkin isn't putting up the individual points Rantnanen will, but he would have made the Avs forward group as a whole a hell of of a lot more competitive. Then you spend Johansen's 4 million on a winger to replace Mikko.

Everyone was very quick to stroke off cMac this offseason. I still think Joe and cMac have been pretty f***ing terrible since they won their cup.

 

[redacted]

More like 88%, if you look at the stats. And Rantanen does actually step it up more in the playoffs. Like significantly more. 1.24PPG compared to 1.0PPG.

I'll give you the defensive part. But offensively Mikko is much better, and that's not up for a debate. If you value the center part and being defensively better then that's ok. I disagree but to each his own.

We're talking minor variations in small samples sizes with the playoffs. Point has 2 cups and the best individual playoff scoring season, but has had injuries and been on a team aging of their window. Rants has yet to experiences injuries like Point has in the playoffs and the regression (though will soon). If we are purely going by PPG... Drai and McDavid blow MacK completely out of the water.

Rants puts up a bit more points on the PP than Point and plays a couple more minutes a game (out of necessity really). That's they key difference in their offensive output. Rants will put up more points, it just isn't a huge difference. I'd say that difference and more is made up defensively and positionally. Both are great players.

 

[Hasbro]

The correlation is very strong with center quality and cup wins. Having good center depth doesn’t guarantee cups, but not having center depth is very hard to overcome. There is a lot of data supporting this. You can discount it as a narrative if you want, but the data overwhelmingly is on the side of centers.

I’d take Point over Rantanen without a single pause. Point is 95% as good offensively, much better defensively, steps up just as big in the playoffs, and is a center.

Good thing the Avalanche went out and got two of them on Draft Eve.

 

[redacted]

Good thing the Avalanche went out and got two of them on Draft Eve.

You say this like I'm not those two's biggest cheerleader here.

 

[Avs9296]

You don't have to look any further than Avalanche history to prove this point, really.

Rantanen for Larkin (just as an example) would have been the type of pivot move that would have set the Avs up significantly better for another cup. Larkin isn't putting up the individual points Rantnanen will, but he would have made the Avs forward group as a whole a hell of of a lot more competitive. Then you spend Johansen's 4 million on a winger to replace Mikko.

Everyone was very quick to stroke off cMac this offseason. I still think Joe and cMac have been pretty f***ing terrible since they won their cup.

Hahahaha Rantanen for Larkin gives the Avs a much, much worse shot at winning a cup.

People don't realize just how good Mikko is, especially in the playoffs.

 

[Ararana]

Hahahaha Rantanen for Larkin gives the Avs a much, much worse shot at winning a cup.

People don't realize just how good Mikko is, especially in the playoffs.

Mikko being good in the postseason and the Avs needed a star 2C more than him are not mutually exclusive.

Mikko's been with the Avs for six postseason runs. And the only year they did anything of significance is when they had a star 2C. I can lead you to water, bud, but I can't force you to drink it.

 

[Avaholic29]

Mikko being good in the postseason and the Avs needed a star 2C more than him are not mutually exclusive.

Mikko's been with the Avs for six postseason runs. And the only year they did anything of significance is when they had a star 2C. I can lead you to water, bud, but I can't force you to drink it.

You must be getting the long offseason brain rot.

 

[Pokecheque]

About the only team I can remember that made it without a 1-2 center tandem that wasn't at least very good is Chicago, and that was mostly because Patrick Kane basically acted as the team's de facto 2C. It also helped that Dave Bolland, banged up as he always was, was an extremely good 3C.

Mikko is awesome but yeah, the Avs trying to make it with an extremely old Lars Eller and J.T. Compher at center behind Nathan MacKinnon was never, ever gonna work. I think we can all agree on that.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We lacked top players, not centers specifically. We had 2 slam dunk top-6 players in our roster for the majority of the Seattle series, MacKinnon and Rantanen. Nuke went MIA, he's a second line winger. Lehkonen is a middle sixer. Then we played Compher and E-Rod in the top-6.

As long as there's enough top end talent, it doesn't really matter if its on the wings or center. We have our line drivers in Rantanen and MacKinnon. Just put enough talent next to them and it'll be fine.

Absolutely false.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Because we love to feed the narratives. Top-6 superstar players that drive the play and score points are important. Doesn't really matter if they are on the center or wing. That's my opinion.

Contract and age aside, would you take Point over Rantanen, because the former is a C? If you would, I'd think that's insane. Because Rantanen is the better player and impacts the game more, despite being a winger.

Easily, that one isn't even close.

Just like I'd trade Rantanen for Pettersson in an insant.

Quite frankly there's quite a few centers even below that level, I would trade Rantanen for.


On the flip side, if they ever made Rantanen a full time Center here, there's only ~3 guys in the league I'd trade him for.

 

[Pokecheque]

Absolutely false.

Yep, agreed. Even Alexander Ovechkin, arguably the best scoring winger of all time, didn't make it to the Promised Land until he had a roster with lots of depth up the middle, and the top two guys playing close to career-best that season.