I was referring in general. Size Queen is hardly a unique position on this board.
Rumor: 2023-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Season Thread
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The 'specifically you' generated my response initially. I was probably Manson's biggest fan in his prime, I've also been very realistic in his decline even prior to his trade here.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
When I think of Josh Manson, I can't help but think of how perfectly he fit in on that entire Cup run in 2022
Barely a year later and he's an anchor contract on par with Gudbranson and Gudas? This place sometimes man
If his body gives out entirely this year we can complain. Until then the pre-emptive whining is so damn lame, we've been needing a top 4 RHD who is adequate on both sides of the puck for a long time now and $4.5 is not too much to pay for a healthy Manson
Barely a year later and he's an anchor contract on par with Gudbranson and Gudas? This place sometimes man
If his body gives out entirely this year we can complain. Until then the pre-emptive whining is so damn lame, we've been needing a top 4 RHD who is adequate on both sides of the puck for a long time now and $4.5 is not too much to pay for a healthy Manson
Gumballhead
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Manson was hurt all year so anyone who didn’t like his new contract is now doubling down on the I told ya so’s. I’m just going to root for him to play his role and stay healthy this season. He’s important to this team.
Foppa2118
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But this doesn't address my issue with trading a 1st or a 1st level prospect every year for a defensive defenseman.
Not to mention how they do that and fill other areas of need people would be upset with if they didn't, when they don't have highly value prosects and only one 1st, if they haven't already traded it.
Sure there is some version of a defensive defenseman available at the deadline every year. That doesn't mean they're as good and will help you win like Manson did, or that it's wise to give up prime assets every single year for a defensive defenseman.
We can say they should trade for Manson types at the deadline every year instead of re-signing him, but the reality is they wouldn't. No team would or does because that costs too many assets.
Chiarot cost a 1st at the deadline and Savard cost a 1st + 3rd. Gudbranson is a clear worse defenseman than Manson.
Tampa also illustrates my point.
They traded two 1sts and a bunch of other picks/prospects for all forwards (Hagel, Paul, Nash) at the 22 deadline. Then they lost McDonagh and Ruuta and replaced them with downgrades in Cole and Perbix. Then traded a 1st and a bunch of other picks/prospects for all forwards again at the 23 deadline (Jeannot, Eyssimont).
Don't you think they would have liked to replace McDonagh and Ruuta properly if they could? They just didn't have the assets to do all of that.
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I mean out of the last 4 seasons Manson has played 168 of 328 games(50% of available games). Make it the last 5 it’s 242 out of 410 and still only 59% of games. I would say we’re probably at that point.
Foppa2118
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100%. It always feels so disingenuous when people say he sucked last year, when they know he was playing through a high ankle sprain most of the season.
Then when I bring it up, the response is always that he's injury prone. Ok, that's true but that's not what you were saying when you said he sucks.
If Manson is relatively healthy in the playoffs he's worth his contract and outside of last year, he's usually healthy enough to play in the playoffs.
We'll see what happens with Manson, the fact that both he and Landeskog essentially fell apart (not to mention Byram missing nearly the entire season and it WASN'T a concussion this time) last year just shows ya how incredibly lucky the Avs were for that Cup run.
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You know the situation is generally pretty damn bad when you're "incredibly lucky" to only lose:
- a top 4D for the entire playoffs
- your 1G for many games and he came back still injured and sucked
- your 2C for a handful of games
Yea the guy that just had a career year is better than the guy who missed nearly the whole season because he was injured. Genius.Actually, Gudas is better at this point
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Actually, Gudas is better at this point
Always showin up with those well-supported facts
I really feel those who defend Manson have not watched him for longer than he has been with the Avs and just assume him in the playoffs is what you'll get all the time. Last season fits a trend in his health and his play. When he was on the ice he was terrible. He's also been very injury prone since 2019. Last year is not an abnormality for him. The playoffs were the abnormality.
He can certainly raise his play in stretches and as players age they have flashes of their old play... it just doesn't sustain. He will probably have a 15 game stretch at some point this year where he will play great. Those defending him will come out and say I told ya so. But he's going to be a 32 year old physical defensemen... go back through time and just see how many of these players improve in their 32-33 year old seasons over their 29-30-31. He's just very unlikely to have a very good season. He's been heavily regressing for years now.
He can certainly raise his play in stretches and as players age they have flashes of their old play... it just doesn't sustain. He will probably have a 15 game stretch at some point this year where he will play great. Those defending him will come out and say I told ya so. But he's going to be a 32 year old physical defensemen... go back through time and just see how many of these players improve in their 32-33 year old seasons over their 29-30-31. He's just very unlikely to have a very good season. He's been heavily regressing for years now.
Foppa2118
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I find this Gudas talk funny, considering he also played through a high ankle sprain when Florida got blown out by Vegas in the Finals, and was -6 for the series, including -4 in the decisive game 5.
But there isn't an anti Gudas narrative here so the level of play from a healthy Gudas is what gets compared to an injured Manson with the same injury.
www.flyersinsider.com
But there isn't an anti Gudas narrative here so the level of play from a healthy Gudas is what gets compared to an injured Manson with the same injury.
Stanley Cup Playoffs: Radko Gudas Played Through A High-Ankle Sprain
In the Stanley Cup Playoffs players are bound to get beat up and take a few hits. Some get the worst of it and end up breaking bones
www.flyersinsider.com
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I mean if Gudas got signed to a 4x4.5 here there’d be a ton of complaints about that contract…I find this Gudas talk funny, considering he also played through a high ankle sprain when Florida got blown out by Vegas in the Finals, and was -6 for the series, including -4 in the decisive game 5.
But there isn't an anti Gudas narrative here so the level of play from a healthy Gudas is what gets compared to an injured Manson.
Stanley Cup Playoffs: Radko Gudas Played Through A High-Ankle Sprain
In the Stanley Cup Playoffs players are bound to get beat up and take a few hits. Some get the worst of it and end up breaking bones
- Jan 18, 2016
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That’s a lot of money to pay for a guy who you can guarantee will only play 1 of every 2 games you play.
Foppa2118
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Yeah because he'd be on the Avs. But since he's not, he's better than Manson, despite struggling to play with a high ankle sprain just like Manson did.
Also, Manson is a Stanley Cup winner who signed for $4.5M x 4 at 30 years old. He'll be 33 in the final year of his deal.
Gudas is not a Stanley Cup winner and signed for $4M x 3 at the same 33 years old Manson will be in the final year of his deal. Gudas will be 35 in the final year of his contract.
Gudas isn't better than Manson and neither is his contract.
- Jan 18, 2016
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The point is that the contracts would be bad contracts and prohibitive to roster construction.
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
shadow1
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In my opinion, most of the damage from the Manson contract is already done.
Colorado kept him over Kadri/2C, and the result was burning a year of the club's window.
For this year, I just hope Manson is healthy for the playoffs. Long term, it is highly probable he is dealt next summer when his NTC only covers 12 teams. It's just going to be a matter of how much draft capital the Avalanche need to attach to move him.
Colorado kept him over Kadri/2C, and the result was burning a year of the club's window.
For this year, I just hope Manson is healthy for the playoffs. Long term, it is highly probable he is dealt next summer when his NTC only covers 12 teams. It's just going to be a matter of how much draft capital the Avalanche need to attach to move him.
Yes and no I would say. Definitely, keeping Manson and letting Kadri walk was beyond dumb. Definitely the worst part about the entire thing. If they had just kept Kadri, our 2C situation would have been solved for the rest of this teams cup contending window. Which is also an infinitely more important roster spot to fill than a #4/D that can play physical, quite frankly it's barely a need for a cup winning roster.
But I don't think the damage is anywhere near done with that contract either.
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
Sheshh... Toews is gonna cost us 10m+
But like Ottawa 40.5m on 1LW Tkachuk, 1C Stutzle, 2C Norris, 1LD Sanderson, 2LD Chabot, all signed till July 2028. Potential is there, but that core doesn't really scare me.
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