Speculation: 2023-24 Roster Thread

[Ducks DVM]

Unless you are still of the opinion that our D prospects aren't going to be NHL worthy, tough decisions are going to have to be made. As I stated earlier, either some of those guys are going to be traded, or Fowler needs to go. All the deflections are just ways of not dealing with the issue. Verbeek wants those guys to marinate, Fowler can play the right side, Fowler is a great mentor, etc. If Zellweger is tearing it up in SD, then what? It is never "too early" to think about roster construction. The smart are able to look down the road and plan. If you are willing to trade some of the prospects to keep a spot for Fowler as he declines, OK. If you are excited about Zellweger, Luneau, Warren, Hinds and others and want to keep them, be willing to look at things a bit differently. Most on here had Mintyukov spending the year in the AHL and Luneau not making the team. Talent will eventually win out over experience, especially in a rebuild.

Warren and Hinds are 3 years away, based on preseason, and will be the Lybushkin and Gudas replacements, IF they progress. Lybushkin and Vaakanainen are UFA/RFA respectively, opening roster spots for Zellweger.

The thing about talent is that it has to actually get better than experience. There was a very strong camp insisting that Vatanen was better than Fowler because of his 3rd pairing production, and, well…

You keep the veterans until you have a cap concern (we don’t, for the foreseeable future), or the kids have actually made the veterans redundant (which is a massive hot take based on 2 games past being the worst team in the league).

 

[Gliff]

Why are other teams dictating the type of game the team plays?

See this is where you lose me... You carry a guy like Johnston to protect and deter other teams from taking runs at our skilled/young players. You don't play him so we can go after other teams skilled/young players.

 

[McDonald19]

He’s sloooooooow. If it’s not a team who he’s going to be needed for, he’s not terribly good at the whole hockey thing. Jones and Leason are considerably better at the hockey thing. Also, the team concept appears to be a group breakout with speed.

Don‘t get me wrong, I appreciate him, but I also see him as a bit too slow to be an 82 game player. Was very nice in person though.

I think his skating is ok for 6’5 235 and he fits nicely with Carrick and Leason.

 

[McDonald19]

Why are other teams dictating the type of game the team plays?

Also most teams have players running around doing dumb stuff. Look at Carolina. They were soft for years, but they added Lemieux, Bunting, DeAngelo. It’s not just about countering the few heavyweights out there.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I think his skating is ok for 6’5 235 and he fits nicely with Carrick and Leason.

I’d agree for the size, but watching the entire arena he’s significantly slower than those guys. If there are zero fights expected, I’m not convinced he’s fast enough to bully the other team with simply physical play.

 

[McDonald19]

I’d agree for the size, but watching the entire arena he’s significantly slower than those guys. If there are zero fights expected, I’m not convinced he’s fast enough to bully the other team with simply physical play.

Maybe, but Carrick and Leason aren’t speedsters either. I wouldn’t want Johnston on any other line, but he fits nicely on this heavy 4th line Cronin put together. Jones would be ok there too. Just no Silfver please.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I view Johnston like I viewed Thomson, insurance players.

When we picked up Thomson, Drysdale was unsigned. When we picked up Johnston, we were missing Carlsson and Killorn. When we do get Killorn back, why would Johnston stay in the lineup? Killorn is a physical player who plays in the top-6, making him a body guard for whatever line he's on. Johnston averages 6:00 ATOI. Yet, some want Silf out, who plays 13:12 ATOI and kills penalties. We need players that can eat up more time so that Vatrano isn't playing 20:46 a game.

Why do some people think that if you're not overtly flashy all the time, then you're worthless such as Fowler and, now, Silf? It's only been two games and many are behaving like they're Katy Perry, "Hot n Cold", with nothing in between.

 

[branmuffin17]

Unless you are still of the opinion that our D prospects aren't going to be NHL worthy, tough decisions are going to have to be made. As I stated earlier, either some of those guys are going to be traded, or Fowler needs to go. All the deflections are just ways of not dealing with the issue. Verbeek wants those guys to marinate, Fowler can play the right side, Fowler is a great mentor, etc. If Zellweger is tearing it up in SD, then what? It is never "too early" to think about roster construction. The smart are able to look down the road and plan. If you are willing to trade some of the prospects to keep a spot for Fowler as he declines, OK. If you are excited about Zellweger, Luneau, Warren, Hinds and others and want to keep them, be willing to look at things a bit differently. Most on here had Mintyukov spending the year in the AHL and Luneau not making the team. Talent will eventually win out over experience, especially in a rebuild.

I'm of the opinion that defensively, Fowler gets the puck in situations that Zell would not at this point. It may be a combination of size/height/reach, experience for better positioning, and other factors altogether.

Zell may be tearing it up in the AHL (though it's only 3 games in for them and a larger sample size would be helpful). That doesn't mean he needs to be called up. There's nothing forcing the team to put him on the NHL roster at this point due to contract, etc. The extra time gives Zell (and all the other prospects) time to further adjust to the pro game, larger player size and speed, and to better hone defensive play.

Even in the preseason games, it started to become obvious to me that LaCombe and Minty were having better general success in games. Zell, while speedy and shifty, was losing battles in the D zone and found he didn't have nearly the time and space in the O zone that he was probably used to. To me, that means letting him continue to grow w/ the Gulls.

I will clarify...I've been a fan of Fowler since he came on board. But just to be clear, I'm way more excited about our younger guys and prospects...Terry, Z, Drysdale, LaCombe, Minty, Zell, Luneau, Hinds, Pastujov, and Warren. I'm hoping they all work out. I agree, it's never too early to think about roster construction, but I'm just not convinced Fowler can be that easily displaced. He brings some solidarity as a 2-way D guy at this point, and we have enough D that can pressure on O (Drys, LaCombe, Minty) that doubling down with a kid that at this point is almost purely O unbalances the D too much.

If we could find a trade partner to take Fowler and give us a true top 4 defensive D (but honestly for the right fit, I feel he's worth a #2 or #3 equivalent), it should be considered. But otherwise, his value to the team is still high enough that I think we're just fine keeping him and letting our prospects develop without rushing.

 

[AngelDuck]

Just like the Fowler discussion, this is completely premature.

We had the thinnest blueline in the league heading into the season. If he didn't make our roster, he's not making anyone else's.

He's not getting traded for a forward anytime soon either. We don't even know what he is yet.

I said in my post this isn’t about this season with Zellweger. I will bet you that he forces his way onto this team by next training camp and a decision will be made where he fits.

He’s really good and is going to be too good to keep down in the AHL for 3 seasons

I’m not saying he will be traded for a forward. I’m saying that him, Mintyukov, Fowler, and LaCombe don’t fit on the same blue line probably

 

[McDonald19]

I view Johnston like I viewed Thomson, insurance players.

When we picked up Thomson, Drysdale was unsigned. When we picked up Johnston, we were missing Carlsson and Killorn. When we do get Killorn back, why would Johnston stay in the lineup? Killorn is a physical player who plays in the top-6, making him a body guard for whatever line he's on. Johnston averages 6:00 ATOI. Yet, some want Silf out, who plays 13:12 ATOI and kills penalties. We need players that can eat up more time so that Vatrano isn't playing 20:46 a game.

Why do some people think that if you're not overtly flashy all the time, then you're worthless such as Fowler and, now, Silf? It's only been two games and many are behaving like they're Katy Perry, "Hot n Cold", with nothing in between.

I don’t see the connection. Thomson was a right handed D and we had a right handed D holding out.

Johnston is an enforcer that Cronin had familiarity with. I think he has a role going forward on the roster and his spot on the team has nothing to do with the two injured top 6 forwards.

A lot of us have been frustrated with Silfver the last few years. It’s not just these two games.

 

[AngelDuck]

Silfverberg is a terrible NHL player in 2023-2024. I’m sorry, he had a great career for the Ducks, arguably a top 15-ish Duck of all time, but he’s cooked.

I hope they give him some games off - manage his work load at least

 

[Deuce22]

I'm of the opinion that defensively, Fowler gets the puck in situations that Zell would not at this point. It may be a combination of size/height/reach, experience for better positioning, and other factors altogether.

Zell may be tearing it up in the AHL (though it's only 3 games in for them and a larger sample size would be helpful). That doesn't mean he needs to be called up. There's nothing forcing the team to put him on the NHL roster at this point due to contract, etc. The extra time gives Zell (and all the other prospects) time to further adjust to the pro game, larger player size and speed, and to better hone defensive play.

Even in the preseason games, it started to become obvious to me that LaCombe and Minty were having better general success in games. Zell, while speedy and shifty, was losing battles in the D zone and found he didn't have nearly the time and space in the O zone that he was probably used to. To me, that means letting him continue to grow w/ the Gulls.

I will clarify...I've been a fan of Fowler since he came on board. But just to be clear, I'm way more excited about our younger guys and prospects...Terry, Z, Drysdale, LaCombe, Minty, Zell, Luneau, Hinds, Pastujov, and Warren. I'm hoping they all work out. I agree, it's never too early to think about roster construction, but I'm just not convinced Fowler can be that easily displaced. He brings some solidarity as a 2-way D guy at this point, and we have enough D that can pressure on O (Drys, LaCombe, Minty) that doubling down with a kid that at this point is almost purely O unbalances the D too much.

If we could find a trade partner to take Fowler and give us a true top 4 defensive D (but honestly for the right fit, I feel he's worth a #2 or #3 equivalent), it should be considered. But otherwise, his value to the team is still high enough that I think we're just fine keeping him and letting our prospects develop without rushing.

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for Zellweger to be brought up. I'm projecting forward a "what if he forces his way onto the Ducks roster in the future. " I saw many D pairs projected on here recently that included White and Hagg with no Mintyukov or Luneau. Fowler is fine now, but may not be (at his salary) in a year or two.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

I said in my post this isn’t about this season with Zellweger. I will bet you that he forces his way onto this team by next training camp and a decision will be made where he fits.

He’s really good and is going to be too good to keep down in the AHL for 3 seasons

I’m not saying he will be traded for a forward. I’m saying that him, Mintyukov, Fowler, and LaCombe don’t fit on the same blue line probably

No, you said "he's going to force his way onto the roster at some point in the next calendar year" which does include this season. My point about this being premature was referring to having to figure out how he fits on the roster. Barring injuries, he doesn't right now. Even when injuries occur, he's still 3rd in line at best.

If he's going to be as good as you think he is as early as you say, there's still room for him after training camp next year and we wouldn't have to trade anyone. Fowler, Drysdale, Mintyukov, Gudas, LaCombe, Zellweger.

There's no point being concerned about making room for him next year. If he's good enough to make the team - he will.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I said in my post this isn’t about this season with Zellweger. I will bet you that he forces his way onto this team by next training camp and a decision will be made where he fits.

He’s really good and is going to be too good to keep down in the AHL for 3 seasons

From Defend the Nest, Game 2 recap:

Olen Zellweger was almost unnoticeable in this game compared to the previous one because he was hardly ever on the ice. The Gulls were given eleven penalties total, over an entire periods worth of time shorthanded. As a result Zellweger did not see much ice time and just couldn’t seem to get going. The general chaos that threatened to get out of control on multiple occasions also probably didn’t help. I’m not so worried that he had a relatively quiet one, there will be games against less… feisty opponents that will allow him to shine.​

I'd like Zellweger's defense improve to where he can participate on the PK. In situations where he's not on the ice often b/c of penalties, then his offense is negated b/c he isn't given time to get into the groove sitting on the bench.

I think Zell and Hinds will get call ups for the next three seasons because they're blocked. It's possible we could trade Fowler and/or Gudas in the 2025 summer, but it'll be more difficult with Fowler due to his N-MTC of only 4 team eligible destinations. If Gudas' health stays good, it'll be difficult to want to trade him.

2023-24
LD: Fowler, LaCombe, Minty, Vaaks
RD: Drysdale, Gudas, Lyubushkin, Luneau

2024-26
LD: Fowler, LaCombe, Minty, FA fringe D
RD: Drysdale, Gudas, Luneau

2026-27
LD: LaCombe, Minty, Zell, FA fringe D
RD: Drysdale, Luneau, Hinds

 

[AngelDuck]

No, you said "he's going to force his way onto the roster at some point in the next calendar year" which does include this season. My point about this being premature was referring to having to figure out how he fits on the roster. Barring injuries, he doesn't right now. Even when injuries occur, he's still 3rd in line at best.

If he's going to be as good as you think he is as early as you say, there's still room for him after training camp next year and we wouldn't have to trade anyone. Fowler, Drysdale, Mintyukov, Gudas, LaCombe, Zellweger.

There's no point being concerned about making room for him next year. If he's good enough to make the team - he will.

But the next calendar year also includes next training camp. Which I think is most likely. Sorry if that was unclear.

That is a very soft defense aside from Gudas. I would prefer to replace Fowler with a stay at home player personally since we’d have plenty of offense.

Regardless I think Fowler should be here all of this season. I think next season is up for debate and not too early to start discussing it

From Defend the Nest, Game 2 recap:

Olen Zellweger was almost unnoticeable in this game compared to the previous one because he was hardly ever on the ice. The Gulls were given eleven penalties total, over an entire periods worth of time shorthanded. As a result Zellweger did not see much ice time and just couldn’t seem to get going. The general chaos that threatened to get out of control on multiple occasions also probably didn’t help. I’m not so worried that he had a relatively quiet one, there will be games against less… feisty opponents that will allow him to shine.​

I'd like Zellweger's defense improve to where he can participate on the PK. In situations where he's not on the ice often b/c of penalties, then his offense is negated b/c he isn't given time to get into the groove sitting on the bench.

I think Zell and Hinds will get call ups for the next three seasons because they're blocked. It's possible we could trade Fowler and/or Gudas in the 2025 summer, but it'll be more difficult with Fowler due to his N-MTC of only 4 team eligible destinations. If Gudas' health stays good, it'll be difficult to want to trade him.

2023-24
LD: Fowler, LaCombe, Minty, Vaaks
RD: Drysdale, Gudas, Lyubushkin, Luneau

2024-26
LD: Fowler, LaCombe, Minty, FA fringe D
RD: Drysdale, Gudas, Luneau

2026-27
LD: LaCombe, Minty, Zell, FA fringe D
RD: Drysdale, Luneau, Hinds

Olen Zellweger is never going to be a prominent Penalty killer. Come on

 

[branmuffin17]

Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for Zellweger to be brought up. I'm projecting forward a "what if he forces his way onto the Ducks roster in the future. " I saw many D pairs projected on here recently that included White and Hagg with no Mintyukov or Luneau. Fowler is fine now, but may not be (at his salary) in a year or two.

Ahh, I can agree with that in a year or two, though it definitely depends on how everyone develops during that time.

I will admit I thought White and/or Hagg were going to make the initial roster before and during early/mid preseason. With Verbeek talking about having no problem letting prospects develop, I thought he would do just that with our more prized prospects, and just use plugs for this season. But as Minty and LaCombe kept playing in more and more preseason games, it became more apparent they were giving them a serious look. And while Luneau is still on the roster, and while he did look solid at times in the preseason, I feel his game could use another year or two of development.

Back in Murray's time, I still think those prospects might just get 9 games and be sent back down, and while that still might happen, I think it's clear that so far, those 2 guys have earned their spots. And I will admit, I'm pleased by that as it's made these first games significantly more exciting to watch.

As for Fowler's salary, it's still fine as far as I see it through the final 3 years.

- LaCombe may earn a slightly higher salary for his next contract, as he's in the final year of his current RFA status.
- Drysdale got his 3 years, so no worries until Cam's current contract is up.
- Lyubushkin has only this remaining year at $2.75M, not sure what they do with him but he won't earn a salary that's going to be detrimental if they decide to keep him.
- Mintyukov, Luneau, Warren, Zell, Hinds all have 3 years on their entry contracts. No problem there.
- Carlsson has 2 years on his contract at $950k, so he could earn a significant bump for that 3rd year, maybe putting a bit of pressure on the remaining year of Cam's contract.

 

[Deuce22]

Ahh, I can agree with that in a year or two, though it definitely depends on how everyone develops during that time.

I will admit I thought White and/or Hagg were going to make the initial roster before and during early/mid preseason. With Verbeek talking about having no problem letting prospects develop, I thought he would do just that with our more prized prospects, and just use plugs for this season. But as Minty and LaCombe kept playing in more and more preseason games, it became more apparent they were giving them a serious look. And while Luneau is still on the roster, and while he did look solid at times in the preseason, I feel his game could use another year or two of development.

Back in Murray's time, I still think those prospects might just get 9 games and be sent back down, and while that still might happen, I think it's clear that so far, those 2 guys have earned their spots. And I will admit, I'm pleased by that as it's made these first games significantly more exciting to watch.

As for Fowler's salary, it's still fine as far as I see it through the final 3 years.

- LaCombe may earn a slightly higher salary for his next contract, as he's in the final year of his current RFA status.
- Drysdale got his 3 years, so no worries until Cam's current contract is up.
- Lyubushkin has only this remaining year at $2.75M, not sure what they do with him but he won't earn a salary that's going to be detrimental if they decide to keep him.
- Mintyukov, Luneau, Warren, Zell, Hinds all have 3 years on their entry contracts. No problem there.
- Carlsson has 2 years on his contract at $950k, so he could earn a significant bump for that 3rd year, maybe putting a bit of pressure on the remaining year of Cam's contract.

If Fowler could fetch a younger, physical RHD or a younger scoring winger I would consider trading him. The danger is to wait until he no longer has as much value (Gibson) before making a move.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I don’t see the connection. Thomson was a right handed D and we had a right handed D holding out.

Johnston is an enforcer that Cronin had familiarity with. I think he has a role going forward on the roster and his spot on the team has nothing to do with the two injured top 6 forwards.

A lot of us have been frustrated with Silfver the last few years. It’s not just these two games.

You're adding qualifiers to deny the connection. Also, are you saying that Killorn isn't a physical deterrent on the ice and you're prefer Johnston over Killorn? Killorn will be around top-6 players whereas Johnston is not.

Johnston is only earning 6:00 ATOI. He doesn't PK, He doesn't PP. The additions of two top-6 forwards will push down talents better than Johnston. Also, the addition of two top-6 player can help the team disseminate the minutes so that one line doesn't get burnt out early in the season. Again, LW Vatrano is playing 20:46 ATOI.

I don't have a problem with Silf. He's a middle of the line up defensive RW who PK's and can move up and down the lineup when needed. I have no disillusion who Silf is. In game 2, he played 4:23 on the PK. Johnston played 6:04 all game.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

But the next calendar year also includes next training camp. Which I think is most likely. Sorry if that was unclear.

That is a very soft defense aside from Gudas. I would prefer to replace Fowler with a stay at home player personally since we’d have plenty of offense.

Regardless I think Fowler should be here all of this season. I think next season is up for debate and not too early to start discussing it

As I mentioned, there's still room for him at training camp next year without having to move anyone.

The makeup of the blueline next season is a different discussion. And yeah, I think it's premature to start discussing that too. We're 2 games into this season and we don't know what we have with Mintyukov and LaCombe. Hell, we don't even know what we have with Drysdale yet and he's on his second contract.

 

[JAHV]

Why are other teams dictating the type of game the team plays?

Johnston shouldn't dictate the type of game the team plays either. He's a tough guy who hits and punches. He's here, ostensibly, to protect the young players. If there's a game where they're not at risk and don't need the extra protection, it would behoove the team to put someone in the lineup with more ability to score and defend.

 

[2faded]

Just like the Fowler discussion, this is completely premature.

We had the thinnest blueline in the league heading into the season. If he didn't make our roster, he's not making anyone else's.

He's not getting traded for a forward anytime soon either. We don't even know what he is yet.

He could've made our team (he was very close) and likely several others. Minty and LaCombe were just more ready. We may have had the thinnest blueline, but definitely not the thinnest prospect pool on the blueline. He got beat out by other prospects.

I agree with AngelDuck that by next year we wont have choice but to find a spot for him.

 

[Gliff]

This conversation about Fowler is just hilarious. LaCombe, Mintyukov, and Zellweger have a combined 6 NHL games and we are worried about Fowler being pushed out some time in the next 3 years.

If those 3 guys are all better then Fowler in the next 3 years I will eat a shoe. That will mean we have 3 top pairing LHD lol.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

He could've made our team (he was very close) and likely several others. Minty and LaCombe were just more ready. We may have had the thinnest blueline, but definitely not the thinnest prospect pool on the blueline. He got beat out by other prospects.

I agree with AngelDuck that by next year we wont have choice but to find a spot for him.

I found a spot for him! Lyubushkin's.

 

[darkwingduck]

We would have MORE to talk about if the NHL gave us some of those sweet sweet games.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Back in Murray's time, I still think those prospects might just get 9 games and be sent back down, and while that still might happen, I think it's clear that so far, those 2 guys have earned their spots. And I will admit, I'm pleased by that as it's made these first games significantly more exciting to watch.

eh, tu, Brute

Minty is in his D+2 season. LaCombe is in his D+5 season.

Lindholm stayed in the NHL all season long in his D+2 season. Manson stayed in the NHL all season long in his D+5 season, granted, though he got called up in his D+4 season.

I dunno why many continue to bash on Murray for false things. And the oddest thing is that Murray already had a playoff roster when promoting the young D men.